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Puzzle Design - Fetch Quests

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Fetch Quests are the norm in certain genres, most notably the RPG and Adventure Games.

In it’s simplist form it usually involves fetching or doing something for a character before they will do/give you what you need to proceed. However if developers want to pad out the game they can nest these fetch quests to the nth degree. The item you are sent to fetch is broken into multiple parts or you have to solve another puzzle to get the item.

Do this a few more times and then it ends up with the domino effect of that item gets you that items which opens this place that gets you this item that the original character wanted.

I recently played the first chapter of Lost Horizon and discovered it had the most ridiculous nested fetch quest in the world. To find the address of an old employee you need to find a picture of him, which is locked in your safe. The whole blooming puzzle involves bats, cats, guards, balls, bellows, flies and an alarm clock. All just to get into your own safe. It’s hilariously over complicated.

Fetch Quest can be fine and in Discworld II funny to parody, but it’s open to abuse.

Anyone have any good examples or examples of more bad ones? (mask any spoilers that are too specific)

     

An adventure game is nothing more than a good story set with engaging puzzles that fit seamlessly in with the story and the characters, and looks and sounds beautiful.
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The worst examples of fetch quest in RPGs are in Dragon Age II, imo.
If you find an item on your quest, your character deduces (by its looks or inscriptions, or the location it was found) who it belongs too.
Instead of having to then track down that person (talking to people, asking if they know the whereabouts of the owner), the owner simple gets marked on your map. Find an item, go to the yellow marker on your map. Quest solved.
Too simple isn’t good.

One of the better fetch quests was in Secret Files: Tunguska where you have to fix a flat tire in exchange for a camera with needed photographic evidence. However the reason why this is such a good fetch quest, is precisely because the puzzle involved is so good.
It’s the most realistic “fixing a flat tire” puzzle ever in games, where you need to inflate the tire and put it in a bucket of water to find the hole, and glue a piece of rubber glove to the hole to patch it, just like you would in real-life without a tire kit.
It’s the quality of the puzzle that determines the quality of the fetch quest, imo.

     

The truth can’t hurt you, it’s just like the dark: it scares you witless but in time you see things clear and stark. - Elvis Costello
Maybe this time I can be strong, but since I know who I am, I’m probably wrong. Maybe this time I can go far, but thinking about where I’ve been ain’t helping me start. - Michael Kiwanuka

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Non-issue for me.

I have far bigger problems with damn sliding tile puzzles. Or a lot of those nonsense Tex Murphy puzzles where you have to piece together letters.

     
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In RPG’s the fetch/deliver quest usually serves as an encouragement to visit a new area, rather then as actual quests, and as long as you are aware of this, then I really don’t have any problems with it.

In AG it can however be a bit more problematic. In a humorous game it can work quite well, giving you an endless and ridiculous chain of task you have to complete in other to get some small insignificant item you just happen to need. It should however be used more carefully in more serious or realistic games, here you are always going to ask the question, why can’t I just pay the guy or “for christ sake, we are suppose top be on the same team, why can’t you just give me the item” or…, and they will usually fell like artificial obstacles that are only there to prolong the game.

There is also an episode of the TV-show Stargate, where the team is send on a endless and ridiculous chain of fetch quests. It actually worked quite well here and added some humour to the episode, mainly because the characters are aware of how ridiculous it all is. Perhaps some of the writers was AG fans?

     

You have to play the game, to find out why you are playing the game! - eXistenZ

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TimovieMan - 16 September 2013 03:26 PM

It’s the quality of the puzzle that determines the quality of the fetch quest, imo.

I agree, it really depending on the puzzles that are integrated into the “fetch quest”

A.A - 16 September 2013 05:11 PM

Non-issue for me.

I have far bigger problems with damn sliding tile puzzles. Or a lot of those nonsense Tex Murphy puzzles where you have to piece together letters.

I also hate slider puzzles and piecing together letter puzzles. However I love the Tex Murphy games, and I forgive them for having some of those puzzle types that I hate. Smile

     

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Recently played:GK1 Remake (4), A Golden Wake (3), Child of Light (4) Memento Mori 2 (4) Face Noir (3.5) Tex Murphy: Tesla Effect (4) Blackwell Epiphany (4.5),Broken Sword 5(4.5), The Shivah Remake (4.5), Monkey Island 2 Remake (4.5)

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when it’s clever designed the fetch quest can be quite fun. My head is a mess now and the only one I can think of is one of my first fetch quests that got my attention in DOTT where you know you have to open the grandfather clock in the future. To do so you have to get rid of it’s guard. To do so you have to release the prisoners. To do so you have to give something to their watchman. Which is the prize you get from the beauty competition. And to get it you have to do a bunch of other things. And to persuade the prisoners you have to scare them with something and so on and so on. I know it’s not the typical give me this and I’ll give you that puzzle but the mechanics are the same. A long string of puzzles and each step gives you something to complete the next step. When this is well conceived you may even not notice that certain puzzles are part of the same string. At least not until the end of the whole string. I enjoy this type of string puzzles much more than the types of “go to room1. solve puzzle1. go to room2. solve puzze2…etc” Of course there are many bad examples, maybe way more than the good ones so it’s really up to designing.

     

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DOTT certainly was a great game and definitely a “fetch quest” type of game. I think the best “fetch quest” game was Simon the Sorcerer. So much depended on what you did before and what you picked up or received.  That was such a great game too. I just smile thinking about that game.

     

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It seems the definition of “fetch quest” somehow got very broad. The OP makes it clear that it’s a “fetch me this item” type of situation, where there’s a series of trades with other characters along the way.
Every AG ever has a chain of puzzles, that’s literally how you design the game. Otherwise, what’s to stop you from solving the end puzzle right at the beginning? Okay, Myst lets you do exactly that, but most games don’t.

     
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Well, sometimes you don’t know what that puzzle is. Recent games reduces difficulty by making more but smaller chains where you don’t play them simultaneously instead of three parallel big ones for example. And I can’t really tell the difference between “fetch me this item” and “fix that thing” and “go there and get rid of someone(which is done by interacting with a certain item)”. At the end all of them are basic inventory puzzles done in favor to someone in order to obtain something else. But some of them are dressed to look like totally different puzzles so the game looks more diverse, interesting and unrepetitive.
If by fetch quest you mean exactly and only “bring me this item and I’ll give you this item because some other guy asked you for it” then, yeah, it’s kind of boring.

     
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Antrax - 17 September 2013 07:32 AM

It seems the definition of “fetch quest” somehow got very broad.

Yeah, I agree. The first thing I think of when hearing “fetch quest” is to walk through couple of screens/locations only to bring some object to a character in exchange for something I need. If THAT’S a fetch quest, I agree it’s an integral part of adventures from early days, and the only problem is if its too illogical/boring, or overused.


However, that sort of “fetch quest” can be masked with clever design and made into a good puzzle with some additional content, unless we’re talking about “go from point A to point B in order to bring a newspaper to a guy who’ll then give you the key.” (and that’s exactly why I abandoned Dreamfall in its early stages Grin, because “simple” fetch quests and 3D open worlds are a no-no)

 

     

Recently finished: Four Last Things 4/5, Edna & Harvey: The Breakout 5/5, Chains of Satinav 3,95/5, A Vampyre Story 88, Sam Peters 3/5, Broken Sword 1 4,5/5, Broken Sword 2 4,3/5, Broken Sword 3 85, Broken Sword 5 81, Gray Matter 4/5\nCurrently playing: Broken Sword 4, Keepsake (Let\‘s Play), Callahan\‘s Crosstime Saloon (post-Community Playthrough)\nLooking forward to: A Playwright’s Tale

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diego - 17 September 2013 01:44 PM

(and that’s exactly why I abandoned Dreamfall in its early stages Grin, because “simple” fetch quests and 3D open worlds are a no-no)

I assume you are referring to the fetch quests when Zoe first arrives in Marcuria?
They actually serves the same purpose as fetch quest does in RPG’s, to force you to learn the layout of the city. They might not be interesting in themselves, but after running around the whole city fetching/delivering things, you know where everything is which you will need later in the games. If it wasn’t for these quests then we would still need to explore the whole place on our own.

In fact, apart from in humorous games, then I think 3D open worlds is the only place were fetch quests work, because they have the alternative purpose of making you explore or visit areas you perhaps otherwise wouldn’t.

     

You have to play the game, to find out why you are playing the game! - eXistenZ

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Antrax - 17 September 2013 07:32 AM

It seems the definition of “fetch quest” somehow got very broad.

That’s because the definition IS very broad. Any quest which has you getting an item or providing a service for someone else is in essence a fetch quest, whether it’s obtaining a difficult-to-find item, or fixing an item, or even getting rid of someone/something else - it’s a fetch quest in my book…

     

The truth can’t hurt you, it’s just like the dark: it scares you witless but in time you see things clear and stark. - Elvis Costello
Maybe this time I can be strong, but since I know who I am, I’m probably wrong. Maybe this time I can go far, but thinking about where I’ve been ain’t helping me start. - Michael Kiwanuka

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So the term has no meaning in your book. It’s a shame, because I felt the OP asked a much more specific question.
The beginning of Dreamfall is a great example, I remember how annoyed I was at that section.

     
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The latter stages of Dreamfall feature even worse fetch quests. The worst is the one which requires you to fetch a sandwich to get into a supposedly high security prison. The simplicity and absurdness of this non-puzzle undermines the seriousness of the situation.

For me “fetch quest” means that a character asks of the player to fetch an item, while the retrieval of said item is void of challenge or necessitates the execution of a rote task (to kill 30 wolves for 30 wolf pelts for example).
The former was the case with the previously mentioned task in Dreamfall. To get the sandwich you merely have to go to the tavern and ask for a sandwich, then go back to the prison. There’s no challenge involved, merely traversal of the environment, a long stretch of eventless walking from point A to B and back again.

And this fetch quest doesn’t even serve the purpose of pushing the player forward to explore new territory, since (s)he already has previously explored all the territory that needs to be traversed for this fetch quest. It’s maddening!

I still hate Dreamfall.

     
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Antrax - 18 September 2013 03:18 AM

So the term has no meaning in your book. It’s a shame, because I felt the OP asked a much more specific question.

It does have a meaning: any quest that boils down to “do X for me and I’ll give you Y”. But whether X is fetching an item (the most narrow definition of a fetch quest) or fixing an item or getting rid of a nuisance (or anything else basically) doesn’t really matter, imo - in essence they’re all fetch quests…


In fact, Monkey Island 2 is one big fetch quest, trunkated so many times that it spans an entire (pretty long) game. Guybrush wants to punish Largo. The Voodoo Lady will help Guybrush by making a Largo voodoo doll. But for that she needs some ingredients. Fetch!
After getting rid of Largo, you need to find Big Whoop. For that you need four map pieces. Fetch!
The reason these are good is because they’re perfectly interwoven with the story, and they require so much effort that it no longer feels as if you’re “just on an errand”.

That’s also the big difference with RPG fetch quests, imo. Those in adventure games are often much more elaborate while in RPGs they’re mostly just “fetch me X” with X being easily acquirable.
In adventure games, it’s usually “fetch me X” with X only obtainable if you fetch its owner Y, and Y only obtainable if you fetch that one’s owner Z, etc.
The manner in which these are succesful depends, like Iznogood stated, on the type of adventure game: ridiculous chains of fetch quests will work a lot better in humorous games than in serious games…

Iznogood - 16 September 2013 07:13 PM

In RPG’s the fetch/deliver quest usually serves as an encouragement to visit a new area, rather then as actual quests, and as long as you are aware of this, then I really don’t have any problems with it.

I consider exploration such an enormous part of the actual gameplay that it doesn’t really need additional encouragement under the form of a fetch quest. ANY type of side quest in any new environment should do, imo, it doesn’t always have to be fetch quests…

Besides, more often than not in RPGs (but sometimes in adventures too), I get the fetch item through exploration BEFORE I even get the fetch quest. Like so:
Quest giver: “Bring me X!”
Me: “You mean this?” [holds up X] Grin

     

The truth can’t hurt you, it’s just like the dark: it scares you witless but in time you see things clear and stark. - Elvis Costello
Maybe this time I can be strong, but since I know who I am, I’m probably wrong. Maybe this time I can go far, but thinking about where I’ve been ain’t helping me start. - Michael Kiwanuka

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Apart from some Myst-clones, I think majority of games feature nested puzzles in one way or another, more or less. The most banal example is picking an item right at the beginning only to use it later in the game. While I agree it can be counted as “fetch quest”, I think it needs to be distinguished from pure fetch quest in the sense of - do this for me (and I might do something for you), or as wikipedia states - “A quest in which a MacGuffin must be acquired at some far off location and given to the quest-giver or some other designated party.”

Perhaps it could be said that nested puzzles are a matter of game design, and fetch quest relate to specific puzzle design. Both become a problem though, if they’re done poorly (get a booze for the drunkard who knows a combination to a safe; in order to get the booze, you need to make a trap for a passing truck transporting drinks (Tunguska and lemon, anyone? Grin)

     

Recently finished: Four Last Things 4/5, Edna & Harvey: The Breakout 5/5, Chains of Satinav 3,95/5, A Vampyre Story 88, Sam Peters 3/5, Broken Sword 1 4,5/5, Broken Sword 2 4,3/5, Broken Sword 3 85, Broken Sword 5 81, Gray Matter 4/5\nCurrently playing: Broken Sword 4, Keepsake (Let\‘s Play), Callahan\‘s Crosstime Saloon (post-Community Playthrough)\nLooking forward to: A Playwright’s Tale

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