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Armikrog - The Neverhood developers making a new game

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Quest1 - 29 May 2013 08:54 AM

Poor Doug ran afoul of the politically correct thought police, who want to make comments some deem “offensive” illegal or at least a career-ending offense.

Where? You’ve said this a number of times now. All I’ve seen is people saying he’s a dick and so don’t want to back him. You’re the one making this political. Doug can say what he likes.

     
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$160.000 so far is a good start. Not a amazing like Dreamfall but it gives hope for a success.

They better get some media coverage before E3 hits in 2 weeks thought, otherwise any coverage will be lost.

     
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Zifnab - 29 May 2013 09:08 AM
Quest1 - 29 May 2013 08:54 AM

Poor Doug ran afoul of the politically correct thought police, who want to make comments some deem “offensive” illegal or at least a career-ending offense.

Where? You’ve said this a number of times now. All I’ve seen is people saying he’s a dick and so don’t want to back him. You’re the one making this political. Doug can say what he likes.

Where? For one, on the gaygamer page that Advie linked to. This story was then picked up by general gaming sites. Surely you’re aware of the fact that his views on marriage are what resulted in a number of negative stories about him on gaming sites. It is an attempt to blackball him because of his political and cultural views. The message is clear: “don’t support this man because he disagrees with my politics and is therefore a bigot.” Having the “wrong” view on marriage now catapults one to the front of the line for shaming and smearing. This issue trumps almost all others, it seems.

Are gaming sites now to investigate the unrelated political views of game developers? Or just their views on particular issues which are deemed more important?

Ok, I finally got around to checking out the video:
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1949537745/armikrog

This looks amazing!!!!

     
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wilco - 29 May 2013 09:55 AM

$160.000 so far is a good start. Not a amazing like Dreamfall but it gives hope for a success.

They better get some media coverage before E3 hits in 2 weeks thought, otherwise any coverage will be lost.

To be honest, it’s not. It’s a very borderline start. To set pace, they would have had to hit $200,000. They can still make it, but if they don’t hit $400,000 by the end of the week, it’s going to be a difficult climb.

Zifnab - 29 May 2013 09:08 AM
Quest1 - 29 May 2013 08:54 AM

Poor Doug ran afoul of the politically correct thought police, who want to make comments some deem “offensive” illegal or at least a career-ending offense.

Where? You’ve said this a number of times now. All I’ve seen is people saying he’s a dick and so don’t want to back him. You’re the one making this political. Doug can say what he likes.

He used to write for Brietbart. Almost all of it was political troll pieces talking about how stupid liberals were. He’s also openly mocked people for believing in evolution, things like that.

He’s kind of a dick. Not just for his views but the way he expresses them. But that’s a dumb reason to deprive the world of an awesome game.

     
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oasis789 - 29 May 2013 07:58 AM

Pretty sure that if I were to apply the principle of “boycott products whose producers I disagree with politically” consistently….

It is not about agreeing or disagreeing with his political views, it is about the fact that he is not just an artist or someone who makes a product, he is also actively taking part in political campaigns. You can’t just one day campaign for some (extreme) political views, and then the next day put on your artist hat and expect people to ignore everything you have previously said, and ask people of the direct opposite opinion to support your art, it simply doesn’t work that way.

This kickstarter also has a political aspect, because one of the most prominent members of it is also a political figure.

     

You have to play the game, to find out why you are playing the game! - eXistenZ

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Iznogood - 29 May 2013 10:26 AM

You can’t just one day campaign for some (extreme) political views, and then the next day put on your artist hat and expect people to ignore everything you have previously said

Chris Christie goes to Bruce Springsteen concerts. You can get over it too. It’s not as if the money is going to be used to campaign against gay rights. It’s to make an awesome game.

     
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Dag - 29 May 2013 08:27 AM
Quest1 - 29 May 2013 08:06 AM

What a bunch of hogwash. Doug TenNapel never said people shouldn’t be allowed to declare their love. You totally misconstrue his words.

You’re right, he only said that some people shouldn’t be allowed to do it. A type of people born with a condition he doesn’t approve of.

I apologise for further derailing this thread but this is something I simply don’t understand. In today’s society with Civil Partnerships (in the UK at least) and a general disillusionment with marriage on the part of many people, is marriage the only way that people can declare their love for another? Clearly not in most people’s minds I would say.

As far as I understand the sensible opposition to gay marriage argument, it is simply that marriage always has been an exclusive state between a man and a woman as the foundation of a family - i.e. to produce children (generally - as obviously some couples can’t have children). It does not destroy the separate institution of civil partnership or mean that those in a civil partnership have any less legal rights than those in a marriage, it just means that marriage is a different thing.

Therefore to widen the definition of marriage to same sex couples who cannot have children by definition is to change the definition of marriage to something it isn’t and then we have lost something rather than made people equal, as married couples (at present in the UK) have no more legal rights than those in a civil partnership.

It honestly worries me when anyone (I don’t know much about Doug whoever he is personally, I am talking generally) who does not support re-defining marriage is immediately branded a homophobe or hateful or intolerant, and how quick people are to do it.

     

3.5 time winner of the “Really Annoying Caption Contest Saboteur” Award!

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Meh, Neverhood wasn’t that great. Nice graphics and art, tedious as hell to play (even without the 10 minute burps). It was kind of like Goblins 3 except with weaker puzzles. I’d prefer another Goblins game.

     
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Intense Degree - 29 May 2013 11:07 AM

It honestly worries me when anyone (I don’t know much about Doug whoever he is personally, I am talking generally) who does not support re-defining marriage is immediately branded a homophobe or hateful or intolerant, and how quick people are to do it.

Except he is a homophobe, and he is intolerant. He’s as obnoxious as he can possibly be with his views in a way that shows a fundamental lack of capacity for empathy with anyone that disagrees with him.

And again, I backed Armikrog on Day 1 and you should too. But not because he isn’t an asshole, but because whether or not he’s an asshole has nothing to do with it.

     
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Frogacuda - 29 May 2013 10:30 AM

Chris Christie goes to Bruce Springsteen concerts. You can get over it too…

And i’m pretty sure that many conservative wouldn’t dream of going to a Bruce Springsteen concert.

My point is simply that things don’t exists in a vacuum, Doug TenNapel has alienated at lot of people with his comments and you can’t just expect people to ignore that.

It also isn’t just a case of different political views, like in your Chris Christie and Bruce Springsteen example. If TenNapel just happened to have some political views different then my own, then i wouldn’t have any problems with it at all, but as far as i know TenNapel has made some pretty extreme comments.

It is the extreme part, or as Zifnab put it “he’s a dick”, that has me thinking twice about supporting the kickstarter.

Edit: I think the word i’m looking for is accountability.

     

You have to play the game, to find out why you are playing the game! - eXistenZ

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Oscar - 29 May 2013 11:17 AM

Meh, Neverhood wasn’t that great. Nice graphics and art, tedious as hell to play (even without the 10 minute burps). It was kind of like Goblins 3 except with weaker puzzles. I’d prefer another Goblins game.

Shifty Eyed
tedious ?!! ..
then Riven was worthless .

for me Neverhood was the best (must not be the same as .. for our picky friends) 3rd person game with the spirit of a 1st person Adventure ‘myst alike’ (yea it has its 1st perspective moments, but they don’t count)

     
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Frogacuda - 29 May 2013 11:18 AM
Intense Degree - 29 May 2013 11:07 AM

It honestly worries me when anyone (I don’t know much about Doug whoever he is personally, I am talking generally) who does not support re-defining marriage is immediately branded a homophobe or hateful or intolerant, and how quick people are to do it.

Except he is a homophobe, and he is intolerant. He’s as obnoxious as he can possibly be with his views in a way that shows a fundamental lack of capacity for empathy with anyone that disagrees with him….

I agree (on this part), and i can add that it isn’t really a question of pro/con gay marriage, but about the things he has said.

And it isn’t just on this subject, he has said and has some views on other issues, that i personally find even more offensive, repulsive and outright stupid.

     

You have to play the game, to find out why you are playing the game! - eXistenZ

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I think it’s perfectly reasonable for people to not support people they consider to be assholes. It is, of course, also perfectly reasonable for people to support the creators of promising projects.

To me, the underlying question is whether an artist’s work should be, needs to be, or can be separated from his/her own views and beliefs. It’s a really interesting question, and it goes far beyond this Armikrog Kickstarter discussion. Perhaps a new thread should be created for it.

     
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Advie - 29 May 2013 12:07 PM
Oscar - 29 May 2013 11:17 AM

Meh, Neverhood wasn’t that great. Nice graphics and art, tedious as hell to play (even without the 10 minute burps). It was kind of like Goblins 3 except with weaker puzzles. I’d prefer another Goblins game.

Shifty Eyed
tedious ?!! ..
then Riven was worthless .

for me Neverhood was the best (must not be the same as .. for our picky friends) 3rd person game with the spirit of a 1st person Adventure ‘myst alike’ (yea it has its 1st perspective moments, but they don’t count)

That’s fair. It just didn’t do it for me and the childish humor wasn’t very funny or charming (unless you are aged 6). I need clever puzzles and didn’t find many here, unlike Riven. Maybe I don’t enjoy 3rd person ‘Myst-alikes’ that much.

     
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Most of the time, you don’t really know anything about the politics and personality of the person who made the game you’re playing. For all I know, Ron Gilbert could be a neo-nazi, and Tim Schafer could beat his wife. Doug just happens to have gotten up on a soap box a few times.

Now, if his GAMES were infused with his right-wing ideologies, I’d probably not support them. But he has the sense to keep that out of his work, so what do I care?

     

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