Adventure Gamers - Forums

Advie - 29 May 2013 06:55 AM

Zifnab - 29 May 2013 12:53 AM

What did he say? I would like to know before I think about backing this.

http://gaygamer.net/2011/05/on_ratfist_doug_tennapel_and_w.html

he is cool.. i never had a problem with what he said, here.

He sounds like a total idiot, regardless whether or not I agree with him.

millenia - 29 May 2013 02:19 AM

I have totally missed Neverhood, where can I get it? So I know if should back this project up

And about the homophobia or other undesirable characteristics in people: I don’t mind supporting good art even when it’s done by an idiot. But if they use unethical methods or really promote their narrowminded views in their product, then I will have an issue about it. I bet there are tons of stupid and downright bad people in the production of the entertainment I use, so I can’t start a boycott from every rumour I hear. But it’s true, hearing about these does still affect me and makes me less eager to suppor them.

That’s the thing: you’re never supporting just the art. The money goes to him. I mean I can walk past a beggar who is shouting obscenities at people and drop a few dollars in his alms bowl saying “it’s cool, i’m only paying for his bread: helping the homeless is something i’m passionate about” but the fact is I don’t feel like it because he’s a dick.

TimovieMan - 15 April 2013 12:05 PM

Frogacuda - 15 April 2013 09:52 AM

But just because I wouldn’t vote for the guy if he ran for office doesn’t mean I won’t buy his game, or that I’m not a fan of his work. I can keep those things separate.

I agree with this.

I have the same issue with one of my favourite writers. Just because Orson Scott Card is a homophobic bigot, doesn’t mean I can’t be a fan of his books and short stories…

You don’t have to like them as people to enjoy their work…

Yuck, how disgusting of you to smear Orson Scott Card that way. And you are a moderator? I am so sick of people calling others bigots because they don’t support same-sex marriage. Orson Scott Card has given thoughtful, candid interviews on this and other subjects. Never have I seen him say anything bigoted or hateful. His only crime is believing in man+woman definition of marriage.

And now some people are trying are trying to hurt the careers of people who they disagree with politically?

If there is any kind of boycott of these people, I hope there is an organized show of support for the targets of the intolerant bigots who are trying to hurt people for their beliefs.

FWIW, I see absolutely nothing particularly offensive about Doug TenNapel’s rather tame comments.

Out of principle I am going to give a large amount to the Doug TenNapel project, even though I know nothing about it yet, because I can afford it and because I am disgusted by some of what I read here.

Pretty sure that if I were to apply the principle of “boycott products whose producers I disagree with politically” consistently, I would very quickly discover just how much of the daily bread of modern civilization comes from and through individuals I find disagreeable, but for the magic of the marketplace, I never have to interact with directly, but through a long series of intermediaries that mask their true origin. Kickstarter, unfortunately, is a direct appeal. As it is, I backed the project, on its merits as a game. But I can understand why others might not see it as just being about the game.

Advie - 29 May 2013 06:55 AM

Zifnab - 29 May 2013 12:53 AM

What did he say? I would like to know before I think about backing this.

http://gaygamer.net/2011/05/on_ratfist_doug_tennapel_and_w.html

he is cool.. i never had a problem with what he said, here.

As I’m not gay and I don’t believe in marriage to begin with this doesn’t really concern me, but I can see why it’d offend people and I certainly don’t agree with his views.

Personally I’m more offended by his “USA#1” attitude, and googling around his comments only gets worse. Yuck. Backing retracted. 

Dag - 29 May 2013 07:55 AM

Advie - 29 May 2013 06:55 AM

THere are a lot worse things than not being able to marry your same sex.

Who the hell is Doug TenNapel to tell a considerable percentage of the worlds population that they shouldn’t be allowed to declare their love? His reasoning is as narrow minded as they come: “I personally don’t like this, therefore it should be illegal”.

What a bunch of hogwash. Doug TenNapel never said people shouldn’t be allowed to declare their love. You totally misconstrue his words.

I think some people want to make it illegal for people to believe marriage involves a man and a woman. They want such people brought down, fired, their careers hurt, etc. It bothers them so much that someone would disagree on this issue. They want to make opposition to same-sex marriage a career killer that makes them fair game for any and all attacks. This is hate and intolerance.

Honestly, I am so disgusted that this even came up in the context of discussing whether to back the project. Since Doug had to know what was coming when he expressed his perfectly legitimate position, I say good for him for not being afraid to say what he thinks is right.

His views on this issue should be irrelevant.

Quest1 - 29 May 2013 08:06 AM

His views on this issue should be irrelevant.

Irrelevant to what though? It’s not about him, it’s about me and whether I want to back someone with these views. No doubt Doug would agree with me, if he wants to be consistent in supporting the freedom to make up my mind about something.

Here is Doug discussing the silly and intolerant brouhaha over his tame comments. I think his response deserves to be heard:
http://popzara.com/pages/1784/

And, for the record, I also believe the USA is the best country on earth. Proud to say it. If that offends anyone, tough.

Oscar - 29 May 2013 08:20 AM

Quest1 - 29 May 2013 08:06 AM

His views on this issue should be irrelevant.

Irrelevant to what though? It’s not about him, it’s about me and whether I want to back someone with these views. No doubt Doug would agree with me, if he wants to be consistent in supporting the freedom to make up my mind about something.

Irrelevant to the question of whether his project merits support, of course. But I understand that some want to make certain opinions unacceptable and deserving of widespread smears. Yes, people are free to back or not back. I tell no one what to do. But I’m also free to view people who try to damage his career and withhold support over a political difference of opinion as intolerant and disgusting.

For example, I have seen certain opinions expressed by a leader of a major KS campaign. I totally disagree with those opinions. I don’t even want to say who. But I love the project and can separate the two things, and I remain vocal in my support of the project.

Quest1 - 29 May 2013 08:24 AM

Here is Doug discussing the silly and intolerant brouhaha over his tame comments. I think his response deserves to be heard:
http://popzara.com/pages/1784/

Hard to figure him out reading this. I don’t understand why he makes everything political. He seems obsessed with his “christian repubilcanism” and philosophic ability, but can’t defend his comments philosophically without attacking the politics of the other side.

Dag - 29 May 2013 08:40 AM

Quest1 - 29 May 2013 08:24 AM

And, for the record, I also believe the USA is the best country on earth. Proud to say it. If that offends anyone, tough.

What is really a country? A line drawn in the sand by powerhungry men? It doesn’t matter what side of the line you’re standing, we’re all the same worth.

Hard to take seriously a guy who thinks this:

“Europe is pretty much done. The rest of the world is a hell hole of human suffering, civil rights violations and criminal activity. Rousseau’s noble savage eats his young. But America is the bulwark that holds back the ocean with a broom. God, I love my country, “I don’t love humanity, it’s too all-encompassing and includes way too many pricks for anyone to feel proud. Same with the “world community”. There’s no pride in being a member of the globe. Western civilization? Maybe, but then I’d have to include France and Canada.”

Thanksgiving poem by William S Burroughs
Thanks for the wild turkey and
the passenger pigeons, destined
to be shat out through wholesome
American guts.

Thanks for a continent to despoil
and poison.

Thanks for Indians to provide a
modicum of challenge and
danger.

Thanks for vast herds of bison to
kill and skin leaving the
carcasses to rot.

Thanks for bounties on wolves
and coyotes.

Thanks for the American dream,
To vulgarize and to falsify until
the bare lies shine through.

Thanks for the KKK.

For nigger-killin’ lawmen,
feelin’ their notches.

For decent church-goin’ women,
with their mean, pinched, bitter,
evil faces.

Thanks for “Kill a Queer for
Christ” stickers.

Thanks for laboratory AIDS.

Thanks for Prohibition and the
war against drugs.

Thanks for a country where
nobody’s allowed to mind the
own business.

Thanks for a nation of finks.

Yes, thanks for all the
memories—all right let’s see
your arms!

You always were a headache and
you always were a bore.

Thanks for the last and greatest
betrayal of the last and greatest
of human dreams.

Poor Doug ran afoul of the politically correct thought police, who want to make comments some deem “offensive” illegal or at least a career-ending offense. So people were offended? Who cares. He deserves a medal for sticking to his guns and not caving to the politically correct Gestapo. Interesting how the “tolerance police” are the most intolerant of all.

Just saw the inclusion of that poem. Very nice. Not responding in kind.