• Log In | Sign Up

  • News
  • Reviews
  • Games Database
  • Game Discovery
  • Search
  • New Releases
  • Forums
Sol705 campaign

Adventure Gamers - Forums

Welcome to Adventure Gamers. Please Sign In or Join Now to post.

You are here: HomeForum Home → Other → Chit Chat → Thread


   

Vinyl Cleaning, Appreciation, Hi-Fi kit etc.

Avatar

Total Posts: 1481

Joined 2010-01-10

PM

This thread started elsewhere and I was half expecting it to have to migrate here (no problem with that as it’s where it belongs) but not via Lady K’s input which only goes to show Smile

Anyway, as it’s quite possible that there’s other vinyl lovers out there I thought that I’d make the thread pretty generic to allow anything related to have a home.
On to the original question:

Jabod - 04 July 2020 06:44 AM

As a wedding present to an old friend I’m going to be cleaning his, and his Fiancée’s, record collection(s) to a professional level and, as this amounts to around 250 albums, it’s going to take a while - covid restrictions notwithstanding Neutral

Lady Kestrel - 04 July 2020 01:12 PM

That’s a great wedding gift, Jabod.  I’d be very interested in how to clean the albums, since my own collection can use some work.  If you have time, could you post something in Chit Chat about it?

It’s not quite that straightforward Lady K and it’s approaching 22:00 her in the UK so I’ll be coming back and responding properly tomorrow - UK time of course Crazy

     

Never cry for something that can’t cry for you.

Avatar

Total Posts: 266

Joined 2018-01-11

PM

I have a really dumb question that maybe you guys can enlighten me.

Are there any pros to having vinyl over another media?

There are lots of vinyl for sell on Limited Run games, and I’ve been very tempted each time to start a vinyl collection, also the game store where I used to work now carries vinyl records, and I get a discount on anything in the store!

I have listened to some old country and jazz tunes on vinyl before, and the media has what I can only describe as, an organic warmth to the records. Kind of like how I describe woodwind instruments.

But on the other hand, I find them fuzzy and static-y sounding.

Maybe I am doing it wrong XD

     

Occuluncus: No, no.  The eye stays closed!

Avatar

Total Posts: 4046

Joined 2008-01-09

PM

My collection and I date back to the pre-digital era, Celebreon.  I think the main reason that vinyl albums have come back is that they’re not as easy to duplicate.  Recording artists have found their work being sold on the black market within days or even hours of being distributed via disks or downloads.  Also, record albums have more space for all the wonderful art, song notes, and lyrics of the songs. 

As to quality, keeping the records clean is a big part of maintaining good sound.  I’m interested to see what Jabod plans to do.  I used to have a soft, static-free cloth I used, and there was a cleaner with a velvety brush that I could circle through the grooves.

     

Difficult roads often lead to beautiful destinations.

Avatar

Total Posts: 266

Joined 2018-01-11

PM

I totally agree with you on the art!

There was this business I saw on sharktank that was going out of their way to include additional art, and memorabilia so that physical media would be superior to digital media.

I’m a big fan of the idea.

I had no clue it helped prevent piracy but that makes total sense!

And yeah everything I’d listened to came from garage sales and sat in garages for months or years with no maintenance.

I’d love to hear from jabod too!  I’ve never done more than dust them with cloth.

     

Occuluncus: No, no.  The eye stays closed!

Avatar

Total Posts: 1481

Joined 2010-01-10

PM

Celebreon - 04 July 2020 06:19 PM

I have a really dumb question that maybe you guys can enlighten me.

Are there any pros to having vinyl over another media?

I’m going to start, with apologies to Lady K, with Celebreon’s question as it’s easier to answer in the short term but could possibly generate a whole load more questions, thoughts, ideas etc.

Firstly I’ll quote Lady K (sort of as an apology for letting Celebreon jump the queue Smile but also as it’s certainly relevant):

Lady Kestrel - 04 July 2020 07:17 PM

I think the main reason that vinyl albums have come back is that they’re not as easy to duplicate.  Recording artists have found their work being sold on the black market within days or even hours of being distributed via disks or downloads.

Whilst a valid point I don’t think it’s entirely accurate. Back in the day when vinyl was all we had, aside from the radio, for listening to music a physical copy was the only way to listen to that music. Then along came domestic tape recorders (reel-to-reel that is) followed by the cassette player. It was at that point pirating music became fairly common. It’s just as easy these days to copy your vinyl to digital media and pass it on to friends, upload to the net etc. I own kit that will do that quite simply. All it takes is one playthrough of the album and off we go.

Lady Kestrel - 04 July 2020 07:17 PM

Also, record albums have more space for all the wonderful art, song notes, and lyrics of the songs.

This is, in my view, much more pertinent. Whilst CDs would frequently carry little booklets, the American quartet Anonymous 4 did this brilliantly, they never could carry the artistic impact of a 12” record sleeve.The Beatles’ “Sergeant Pepper’s” could never have been so striking (and I say that as someone who never could stand the band). The same applies to the Stones’ “Sticky Fingers”, “Velvet Underground and Nico”, Cream’s “Disraeli Gears”, the list would go and on. So many of the Sixties and Seventies albums had great cover art that just didn’t hit in the same way on CD covers. And, of course, it simply doesn’t exist in the purely digital market.

Most importantly, of course, is the sound.

Lady Kestrel - 04 July 2020 07:17 PM

As to quality, keeping the records clean is a big part of maintaining good sound.  I’m interested to see what Jabod plans to do.  I used to have a soft, static-free cloth I used, and there was a cleaner with a velvety brush that I could circle through the grooves.

Quality of the vinyl is absolutely paramount. A mint copy of a rare, or not so rare, vinyl album can be worth 10 times or more to that for a good quality copy. People do not want to listen to crackles, clicks and pops and that is very understandable.
But it is the quality of analogue sound, compared to digital, that makes it stand out and is why, to very many ears, it is the superior sound by far. There is warmth and depth that doesn’t exist in digital. Digital is far too “clean” and seems to carry far less emotion and involvement in the music. I well remember in the folly of my younger days telling people how wonderful CDs were. I frequently told people about how clear the sound was using Leonard Cohen’s “First We Take Manhattan” track from his “I’m Your Man” album where I could clearly hear a triangle being played. It took me quite some time to realise that this was appalling. The triangle should be part of the sound, not separate from it. Imagine, for example, suddenly hearing a bassoon standing alone in a symphonic work with everything else going on around it. Perfectly acceptable if it is a solo part of the symphony of course (has there ever been a bassoon solo within any symphonic work?) but not when it should be within the sound.
It’s not possible, to my mind and ears, to capture the sound of any concert performance electronically. There is always going to be some loss of “feel”, sound, the overall acoustic experience, but vinyl recaptures better and more honestly this experience than digital ever will.

Next we have to consider what you play vinyl on but that is a whole new post (but not thread Smile)

Apologies to Lady K but as this has taken more time than I expected it’s going to be later today before I get round to the vinyl cleaning reply and probably not until tomorrow. But I’m sure your albums can wait another day or two Grin

     

Never cry for something that can’t cry for you.

Avatar

Total Posts: 4046

Joined 2008-01-09

PM

No apologies needed, Jabod.  I’m in the process of rearranging part of my living room, which means schlepping over 450 albums out of the cabinet where they live so I can move it.  It’ll be a while before I get to cleaning the records.

One thing about digital recordings is that they can be cleaned of extraneous sounds, but that does affect quality.  I once used a program called Audacity to clear out microphone hiss and hollow sounds in some voice work for a game.  It made the different voices sound like they were spoken in the same room, but it also changed the character of them.  I’m sure a professional would have had better results fixing things, and, of course, studio recording equipment makes for much better quality than some amateurs sitting at their home computers. 

I recently relistened to a record made by my high school chorus near the end of my junior year.  We sang a mixed bag of choral pieces from our spring concert and ended with Wilhousky’s arrangement of “The Battle Hymn of the Republic”.  Fixing that high B we first sopranos hit at the end would have been so much easier with digital. Smile

     

Difficult roads often lead to beautiful destinations.

Avatar

Total Posts: 157

Joined 2003-11-15

PM

Jabod - 05 July 2020 07:29 AM

has there ever been a bassoon solo within any symphonic work?

As a bassoonist, I have to respond to this, even though it is slightly off topic. Yes. Frequently. Pretty much anything from the classical period (second half of the 18th century), and many later examples too. Most famously we have the opening of Stravinsky’s Rite of Spring…

Not to mention actual bassoon concertos. While they’re not particularly common today, there have been some great modern works in that genre too. John Williams has written a great one called The Five Sacred Trees. But in the 18th century, the bassoon was very popular. Vivaldi wrote 40 concertos for the instrument, which is second only to the violin.

Also yay for Anonymous 4!

There is always going to be some loss of “feel”, sound, the overall acoustic experience, but vinyl recaptures better and more honestly this experience than digital ever will.

I’ll admit to not being an audiophile. (I really ought to upgrade my speakers, and have never owned a vinyl record as I didn’t start buying albums until the 90s. I do have around 700 CDs in my collection though, because I love music.) But surely that quote is quite hyperbolic. If there is clarity in the sound, that’s a choice by the sound engineers and not something inherent in the use of digital technology. At least not today. Maybe in the 90s.

I don’t have the trained ears of a sound engineer (only the trained ears of a professional musician) so I can’t hear the flaws of a CD (certainly not on my speakers who need an upgrade, but I’m also saving up for a pro-level french horn so I think they’ll have to do for now anyway) but I’m despite that going to go out on a limb and say that if you take a 24-bit recording with lossless compression, such as those sold online by BIS for example, I feel pretty confident in saying that the recordings are not limited by the use of digital tech.

     

You can play my game Frasse and the Peas of Kejick for free! (AG review here.)

Avatar

Total Posts: 1481

Joined 2010-01-10

PM

Lady Kestrel - 04 July 2020 01:12 PM

That’s a great wedding gift, Jabod.  I’d be very interested in how to clean the albums, since my own collection can use some work.

Right. On to the reason this thread was started in the first place. Trumgottist, I’ll be responding to you in a day or two. Got a lot on at the moment but you’re definitely not going to be ignored. Should make for a cheerful discussion Thumbs Up

Lady Kestrel - 04 July 2020 07:17 PM

As to quality, keeping the records clean is a big part of maintaining good sound.  I’m interested to see what Jabod plans to do.  I used to have a soft, static-free cloth I used, and there was a cleaner with a velvety brush that I could circle through the grooves.

I am definitely not a fan of cleaning cloths. It’s too easy to pick up a bit of grit with one which can cause damage to the vinyl. There’s another reason which will follow shortly.

The velvety brush. I do own one and used to use it a fair bit due to owning two cats, both of which moulted of course and in the case of William, a pure white, moulted heavily so I was forever finding cat hair on my records. These are to be used very lightly as they’ll almost certainly be used with the album on the turntable. They tend to be of variable quality as well so it might take a try or two to find an effective one. I eventually settled on a Goldring Super EXstatic which worked extremely well. Hopefully still in production.

For both of the above a strong caveat. Both tend to be used with the record on the turntable and too much pressure whilst cleaning can lead to damage to the turntable itself which is to be avoided at all costs. Also, neither of these methods will clean a record to any great degree. The brush, used carefully and lightly, will clear small, light, items and help to counter static. The cleaning cloth should be chucked in the bin.  Smile

This obviously leads on to mechanical cleaners, of which there are a fair number of differing types and, obviously, costs. Any of what follows will do a better job than the above two items.

Firstly there is the simple bath and spindle unit. This is the Knosti:

I used to own an earlier version of this (there are several manufactures of similar models) and it did a reasonable job of cleaning but it is labour intensive. It got rid of general muck quite well but wasn’t very good at fingerprints and didn’t really get into the groove (Hey! I’ve just gone all disco Laughing ) but is far better than nothing. Prices will be around the £50 - £100 mark.

Next comes the powered cleaners. These invariably use a cleaning fluid that is used to cover the record either by hand or, preferably, automatically. It won’t come as a surprise that there is a steep price increase. Also, you should be warned, that most use a vacuum suction system to remove the fluid and this is noisy as it basically uses a vacuum cleaner motor.
A very popular one is the Moth:

and this does a pretty fair job overall. Price for this is around £600.

Next step up is something like the Nessie:

This is one that I have owned and used. It has an automatic fluid delivery system and also uses a microfibre brush that is suspended fractionally above the record which caters for any slight warping. This did an excellent job but sadly mine developed a fault whereby it wouldn’t vacuum off the fluid properly. The manufacturer was brilliant about this and sent me a replacement direct from their German manufacturing plant and paid for the collection of the faulty one. Unfortunately this one also developed a fault with cleaning fluid leaking out through the base. I firmly believe that I was just unlucky as the company has an excellent reputation and, as I say above, the machine did do an excellent job. Expect to pay around £1500 for one of these or £1000 to £2000 for something comparable.

Lastly we come to the ultrasonic cleaners and, again, there is a steep price increase.
This is the one that I bought to replace the Nessie above, a Vinyl Cleaner Pro:

This does an an absolutely brilliant job at cleaning albums. You need to use distilled water (5 litres) plus a bottle of their cleaning fluid which costs £14 a time and does around 100 albums, the same as the distilled water. The album rotates through the bath and is blasted with ultrasound for the duration. It also cleans both sides simultaneously. The odd thing is that it uses cold air to dry which sounds like it shouldn’t work but it does. Warm or hot air could easily damage the vinyl. I cannot praise this cleaner enough but it comes with a hefty price tag: £2,500.

There are various options in between of course and various manufacturers. You have to decide what you can afford and what you may gain. With both the Nessie and the Vinyl Cleaner Pro I gained a definite sonic improvement, the latter improving on the Nessie enough that I re-cleaned the albums that I’d already cleaned with that machine.

No matter which of the machines is chosen any will improve on the quality of the playback of an album but time involved should also be a consideration. Lady K has more vinyl than I do as I have a mere 370 but, even with cleaning both sides of an album at the same time, it still took around 6 minutes per album. At least with an automated system you can be doing something else as well Smile

     

Never cry for something that can’t cry for you.

Avatar

Total Posts: 7703

Joined 2011-10-21

PM

Very interesting thread, Jabod! Thumbs Up

My dad used to have a vinyl collection of close to 200 LPs back in the ‘80s.
When he first bought a CD player (in May 1989 - easy to remember since he bought it simultaneously with Queen’s The Miracle which was then just released), the turntable started seeing less and less use and his record collection - being replaced with a rapidly growing CD collection - just sat there collecting dust until he sold it all in the mid-90s.

I was still a kid, yet I was always allowed to play records as well, but he was always very adamant that I respect the vinyl and handled it with care. He definitely drilled it into me well, because even to this day, I will handle a vinyl LP like it’s an object to be revered, going out of my to avoid getting any fingerprints on them, always putting it back in the sleeve immediately after I’m done playing it, always keeping the LPs stored upright, etc. This despite it being over 25 years since I actually last handled a vinyl record. Grin

As for cleaning them, I remember he always cleaned all the records I had been playing after I was done. He had a series of small brushes to get dust off, but actual cleaning was done with something resembling a wooden chalkboard wiper (thoughts, Jabod?). And I definitely remember him having a strict “no cloth” policy too.

But again, this was 30 years ago, so I was a pre-teen boy at that time…



And I second the notion that well-maintained vinyl sounds better than a CD. It was definitely noticeable back in those days, when both were available for comparison.
I recall my dad borrowing a friend’s CD that he owned on vinyl, just to make me and my mom hear the difference in quality between the two. Nevertheless, he still switched to CD only…

     

Last played: The Talos Principle -4/5 | Tex Murphy: Martian Memorandum - 3/5 | Danganronpa: Trigger Happy Havoc - 3/5 | Simon the Sorcerer (replay) - 4/5 | Portal 2 - 4/5 | Murder By Numbers - 3.5/5 | Heavy Rain - 3.5/5 | Disco Elysium - 4.5/5 | Freddi Fish 2: The Case of the Haunted Schoolhouse - 3/5 | Freddi Fish and the Case of the Missing Kelp Seeds - 3/5 | Whispers of a Machine (CPT) - 4/5 | Beneath a Steel Sky (CPT) - 3/5 | 3 in Three - 3.5/5 | Puzzle Gallery: At the Carnival - 2.5/5 | The Fool’s Errand (replay) - 3/5 | The Dig (replay) - 4.5/5 | Return of the Obra Dinn (CPT) - 4/5 | Beavis and Butt-Head in Virtual Stupidity - 3.5/5 | League of Light: The Game (CCPT) - 3/5 | realMyst: Masterpiece Edition - 2.5/5 | Contradiction - 3/5

Avatar

Total Posts: 1481

Joined 2010-01-10

PM

Trumgottist - 05 July 2020 04:00 PM
Jabod - 05 July 2020 07:29 AM

has there ever been a bassoon solo within any symphonic work?

As a bassoonist, I have to respond to this, even though it is slightly off topic. Yes. Frequently. Pretty much anything from the classical period (second half of the 18th century), and many later examples too. Most famously we have the opening of Stravinsky’s Rite of Spring…

Not to mention actual bassoon concertos. While they’re not particularly common today, there have been some great modern works in that genre too. John Williams has written a great one called The Five Sacred Trees. But in the 18th century, the bassoon was very popular. Vivaldi wrote 40 concertos for the instrument, which is second only to the violin.

Also yay for Anonymous 4!

That only goes to show how much people (notably me of course Smile) don’t know. That’s about anything really but I think it’s particularly true when discussing the “arts” as there’s so much of it since man first daubed on cave walls. I used the bassoon as an example as I would never have thought it could be used as a solo instrument and as a penance, and hopefully finding some real enjoyment, I shall acquire a recording The Five Sacred Trees and let you know what I think.

Trumgottist - 05 July 2020 04:00 PM

I’ll admit to not being an audiophile. (I really ought to upgrade my speakers, and have never owned a vinyl record as I didn’t start buying albums until the 90s. I do have around 700 CDs in my collection though, because I love music.) But surely that quote is quite hyperbolic. If there is clarity in the sound, that’s a choice by the sound engineers and not something inherent in the use of digital technology. At least not today. Maybe in the 90s.

I don’t have the trained ears of a sound engineer (only the trained ears of a professional musician) so I can’t hear the flaws of a CD (certainly not on my speakers who need an upgrade, but I’m also saving up for a pro-level french horn so I think they’ll have to do for now anyway) but I’m despite that going to go out on a limb and say that if you take a 24-bit recording with lossless compression, such as those sold online by BIS for example, I feel pretty confident in saying that the recordings are not limited by the use of digital tech.

Here I have a definite advantage over you, as does TimovieMan, because I’ve/we’ve listened to both and know what our ears hear. Until you’ve heard vinyl on a decent system you really can’t comment on differences.
Now that doesn’t mean you’ll come round to my way of thinking - you may genuinely prefer the digital sound and that’s perfectly fine by me. I detest the zealots that insist one or other form is superior. It isn’t, no matter what scientists, engineers, musicologists try to tell us. It’s what an individual hears and how that person gets involved in the music that counts above everything simply because it’s the music and the individual’s enjoyment that has any sort of meaning. Don’t care if you prefer to hear your music on an old Dansette vinyl record player, a Bose system, or via your mobile phone. If that’s how you get the best enjoyment then go for it. It’s the music, music, music!  Crazy
A long time ago when I actually knew something about hi-fi I was asked by a friend what he should buy. I told him to listen to an Amstrad system (you’ll probably need to look that up although British people of a certain age will know what I mean) then come and listen to mine and if he couldn’t tell the difference then buy the Amstrad and not to waste money - but I did also tell him to get his hearing tested at the same time Smile

Bit of advice though regarding speakers.
Back in the 1970s Ivor Tiefenbrun turned the hi-fi industry somewhat on its head by positing that the speakers, nor the amplifier, were not the most important part of the system. He put forward that it was the signal source that was the crucial part of sound reproduction. As a musician (I’m certainly not one having no musical ability whatsoever) you’ll know that the sound, as you play it, is the only true version of that sound. Anything recorded afterwards will have changed it, if only slightly. Therefore your original moment of playing is the purest source. As you go further down the line of playback (source, cables, amplifier, cables, speakers) you’ll get certain sound degradation so you’re starting point has to be the best that it can be. Certainly everything in that chain needs to be the best that you can make it/afford it but if you start with a weak source then you get a weak sound no matter what. As a bassoonist would you get a better sound from, say, a Heckel 6000 bassoon or from an Allora AABN-141? As you will well know one is a very high-end bassoon and the other a student’s bassoon but I bet I know which will give the better sound (I freely admit to doing a bit of research there).
Original source is where to start for improving sound quality so don’t necessarily think it’s your speakers that need looking at - but the French Horn comes first simply because music has to be created before it can be listened to - via whatever means that is chosen Smile

     

Never cry for something that can’t cry for you.

Avatar

Total Posts: 1481

Joined 2010-01-10

PM

TimovieMan - 06 July 2020 12:00 PM

As for cleaning them, I remember he always cleaned all the records I had been playing after I was done. He had a series of small brushes to get dust off, but actual cleaning was done with something resembling a wooden chalkboard wiper (thoughts, Jabod?). And I definitely remember him having a strict “no cloth” policy too.

But again, this was 30 years ago, so I was a pre-teen boy at that time…

What you’re talking about there Tim is what Lady K and I were referring to above (the velvety brush thing to quote Lady K) and your Dad’s would look like this:

which is mine and from the top looks like:



TimovieMan - 06 July 2020 12:00 PM

And I second the notion that well-maintained vinyl sounds better than a CD. It was definitely noticeable back in those days, when both were available for comparison.
I recall my dad borrowing a friend’s CD that he owned on vinyl, just to make me and my mom hear the difference in quality between the two. Nevertheless, he still switched to CD only…

I’ve already posted about this elsewhere so I won’t go into it again but that’s sad. I can understand it though as CDs and their players lasted longer, were cheaper and didn’t get damaged easily, the CDs that is. Storage of CDs was easier and a CD player was cheaper than a decent turntable.
But what I think really impacted on vinyl sales was the record labels found it cheaper to manufacture CDs so all you could buy were CDs. Very little vinyl was produced from the Eighties onwards which is why what vinyl that was produced has a surprisingly high value now. I’ve got vinyl by the likes of Tori Amos and Neil Young & Crazy Horse that are valued at £50 to £80 although values do get up and down surprisingly quickly.

     

Never cry for something that can’t cry for you.

Avatar

Total Posts: 7703

Joined 2011-10-21

PM

Yeah, the switch was definitely because CDs were cheaper (and because they took up less space in storage which made my mom nag him less), and yes, after a while it seemed like you just couldn’t get vinyl records anywhere anymore.



The thing I miss the most is the cover art. There’s just so much you can do with a 12.5 x 12.5 inch surface (32 x 32 cm). And apart from detailed art, you could actually do fun things with them.
Aerosmith’s “Live! Bootleg” album cover was a mock-up of cheap bootleg LPs, coffee cup stain included.
And I just loved Uriah Heep’s “Look at Yourself” cover, which had a reflective surface, so looking at it was almost like looking in a mirror. Grin

     

Last played: The Talos Principle -4/5 | Tex Murphy: Martian Memorandum - 3/5 | Danganronpa: Trigger Happy Havoc - 3/5 | Simon the Sorcerer (replay) - 4/5 | Portal 2 - 4/5 | Murder By Numbers - 3.5/5 | Heavy Rain - 3.5/5 | Disco Elysium - 4.5/5 | Freddi Fish 2: The Case of the Haunted Schoolhouse - 3/5 | Freddi Fish and the Case of the Missing Kelp Seeds - 3/5 | Whispers of a Machine (CPT) - 4/5 | Beneath a Steel Sky (CPT) - 3/5 | 3 in Three - 3.5/5 | Puzzle Gallery: At the Carnival - 2.5/5 | The Fool’s Errand (replay) - 3/5 | The Dig (replay) - 4.5/5 | Return of the Obra Dinn (CPT) - 4/5 | Beavis and Butt-Head in Virtual Stupidity - 3.5/5 | League of Light: The Game (CCPT) - 3/5 | realMyst: Masterpiece Edition - 2.5/5 | Contradiction - 3/5

Avatar

Total Posts: 157

Joined 2003-11-15

PM

Jabod - 09 July 2020 06:10 AM

as a penance, and hopefully finding some real enjoyment, I shall acquire a recording The Five Sacred Trees and let you know what I think.

I hope you’ll like it. Smile Also, if you like classical music, the next time you listen to a symphony or opera by Mozart, listen for the bassoon solos. They will be there. The bassoon is usually not completely alone - it could be doubling first violins or together with some other woodwind, or as a counter-melody - but I think that still counts.

Here I have a definite advantage over you, as does TimovieMan, because I’ve/we’ve listened to both and know what our ears hear. Until you’ve heard vinyl on a decent system you really can’t comment on differences.
Now that doesn’t mean you’ll come round to my way of thinking - you may genuinely prefer the digital sound and that’s perfectly fine by me. I detest the zealots that insist one or other form is superior.

I have heard vinyl, and I’m not saying it is bad. (And I don’t mind you preferring the sound.) I was mostly reacting to your statment that “vinyl recaptures better and more honestly this [live concert] experience than digital ever will.” (Emphasis mine.)

Do you also object to digital equipment during the recording and mixing stages? If not, then we can agree that it’s not the digital conversion itself that’s the issue. And I wonder if it shouldn’t be possible (assuming a good DA converter in the end system) for a sound engineer to get the exact vinyl sound in a digital recording if they wanted? If I’m wrong here, it seems very likely to me that it will be achieved in the future. The people making studio gear haven’t stopped working on improving their stuff.

But as you say, it is a matter of taste in the end, and I have no problem with that. I’m just interested in what the technical possibilities and limitations really are. Let’s compare it to graphics, where we have similar analog/digital problems. Now even the cheapest screens have amazing resolutions and colour display, but if we look at printed media, we have long ago passed the point where images can be produced without any digital artefacts. AFAIK, nobody is objecting to that statement. (I’m talking strictly about 2d images here, so let’s leave the structure of a painting out of this. That’s another, interesting, discussion.) I don’t see that the same wouldn’t be possible with audio too.

If we’re there yet, I don’t know, which is why I brought up the 24-bit recordings. Unlike 16-bit CDs, they are not degraded compared to what the people in the studio are working with. Have we reached the point there where, like with print media, the digital behind-the-scenes stuff is completely invisible, or does the entire signal chain need more development before we get there?

     

You can play my game Frasse and the Peas of Kejick for free! (AG review here.)

You are here: HomeForum Home → Other → Chit Chat → Thread

Welcome to the Adventure Gamers forums!

Close