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Controversial adventure game preferences and opinions?

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Lady Kestrel - 16 June 2020 06:36 PM

I like your list, D!  However, I think adventure games are best played on days that end in “y,” and chocolate is preferable to cheeseburgers.

Have you ever had a day so bad you thought it would never end? For me, it was a Tuesday. And it never ended. Yesterday was Tuesday. Today is Tuesday. Tomorrow will be Tuesday. Do you know what made it so bad? I ran out of chocolate.

I’m not giving up though. I will find Wednesday! It’s around here somewhere. It’s probably in that old shoe box up in the attic. Then and only then will I be able to agree with you.

Celebreon - 17 June 2020 01:48 AM

Anyone could whoop George Stobbart.  He even loses to a goat.

The thing is, though, that you can’t always tell how tough a person is by how they act in relatively normal situations. Stobbart might drop down and cry like a little girl after a single punch from Gabriel or you might find him a few minutes later perched on Gabriel’s chest eating his face off like Hannibal Lecter. Who can say? It’s rather rare for civilized people to regress towards an atavistic state and hard to predict how far they’ll go. I’m betting on Gabriel, but I could be wrong. I think we should have the creators fight a cage match to settle it; Charles Cecil and Jane Jensen in the Octagon. Charles looks a bit soft. I think Jane’s got a shot.

Vehelon - 17 June 2020 03:18 AM

Yes! I’ve been saying this forever (But why limit it to the 90s?)

Because in order to speak somewhat authoritatively about what the worst is, one has to have experience with everything discussed and I haven’t played most of the 80s LucasArts games. It’s possible I may dislike them more. I did exclude Escape from Monkey Island though, the only game from the aughts, which I have played and liked better than Full Throttle as well.

Vehelon - 17 June 2020 03:18 AM

Gonna have to come to the defence of QFG here. I like SQ1-3 too.

VoodooDerina - 17 June 2020 02:47 PM

Nah - LSL3, SQ3, Colonel Bequest, Hero Quest, KQIV were all great games

It isn’t about liking or disliking. One can subjectively like something that is objectively bad or subjectively hate something that is objectively good. To make an example, I recently read Wuthering Heights and hated it with a passion. It’s easily one the least enjoyable reads of my entire life. I’d rather get two simultaneous root canals without anesthesia than read it again. That doesn’t mean it’s a bad book though. It’s a classic. I also like some B horror movies which are objectively crap, but that I find ironically enjoyable.

Getting back to gaming, the fact that the entire industry left the 80s Sierra style of game development behind and never looked back is a pretty good indicator that the designs were crap, regardless of whether anyone enjoyed them or not.

Karlok - 17 June 2020 06:02 AM

No, that was The Boring Dig.

I can definitely understand why a lot of people would feel that way. It’s a drastically different style of game from the rest of the LucasArts oeuvre.

VoodooDerina - 17 June 2020 02:34 PM

1. Leisure Suit Larry is the best series from Sierra.

I’d have to go with Gabriel Knight myself, but it’s impossible not to like Larry as well.

VoodooDerina - 17 June 2020 02:34 PM

2. Curse of Monkey Island has by far the weakest story in the series. It’s terrible waste for fantastic technical achievements to be wasted on such poor script.

I completely agree. The story is truly horrible. That said, most LucasArts games have rather poor stories. It doesn’t matter though as stories aren’t the primary draw of LucasArts. It’s the characters, humor (if applicable) and puzzles.

VoodooDerina - 17 June 2020 02:47 PM

Agree, but you should never use walkthrough in the first place.

Sadly, I would have agreed with you when I was younger, but with age comes wisdom and wisdom dictates that, for a mortal being, there is nothing more valuable than time. And no adventure gamer will, when they are old and gray and on their death bed, ever think, “Man, I really wish I wouldn’t have used those walkthroughs. Just think of all the hours of my life I failed to piss away by traveling around the same screens over and over again clicking on everything in sight like some coke-addled monkey hoping to find that hotspot I missed so I could earn some faux self esteem. My life could have been so much better…”

Thinking that “beating” a game in such a manner is some sort of badge of honor is nothing more than the insecurity borne of foolish pride and wasting your life away on something so petty is really just the gaming equivalent of puritanical self-flagellation. It’s as bizarre as discovering your mower is out of gas and then deciding to use a pair of toenail clippers to cut your lawn while thinking you’re a badass for toughing it out like that.

Ultimately though, it is up to the individual how they want to play their games. There is no right or wrong way to do it. If someone hates puzzles and only likes the exploration and stories, then there is nothing wrong with them sitting down with a walkthrough and not solving a single puzzle themselves.

Likewise, there’s nothing wrong with someone like me, who doesn’t care about story, deciding to skip every dialogue and cutscene I can and just explore and solve puzzles. (FYI, I don’t always do this. It depends on the game).

Most people aren’t so extreme and will simply have dislikes for certain types of puzzles and they absolutely should use a walkthrough rather than torture themselves with them. If you hate mazes, download a map. Games are supposed to be fun, not arbiters of self-worth.

     
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Jdawg445 - 17 June 2020 06:47 PM

Story is more important than puzzles, otherwise just play a puzzle game or do a word search.


This is a false dichotomy.  Adventure games aren’t just story or puzzles, with one fighting against the other for dominance. Exploration is a huge part of it. I’m not really all that interested in just sitting down with a puzzle book and doing puzzles. Put those same puzzles in some ancient Egyptian/Mayan ruins or some other setting that interests me and then I’m gung ho about doing puzzles, especially if the art and soundtrack establish a really good atmosphere. Puzzles simply aren’t as fun without the “adventure”. I would also say that simply doing non-stop puzzle after puzzle becomes fatiguing and the enjoyable exploration an adventure game can provide gives you a chance to recharge between challenges.

     
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While we’re talking about Monkey Island: MI4 is incredibly underrated. It was misaligned on release due to the shift to 3D and controls, not taken well by the old-school AG crowd, and never recovered. It’s funnier than both 3 and 5, and may well have the most satisfying story of the lot. At least it doesn’t directly rip off elements of the previous games (insult swordfighting).

Now, as for Tales of Monkey Island - indisputably the worst in the series.

     
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D - 18 June 2020 02:05 AM

Getting back to gaming, the fact that the entire industry left the 80s Sierra style of game development behind and never looked back is a pretty good indicator that the designs were crap, regardless of whether anyone enjoyed them or not.

The industry also got rid of almost everything that LucasArts had, so the same argument can be said about them.

It’s not a very good argument to say what the industry leaves behind, because a big part of the industry is to promote change, not things that have worked well in the past. The sad case of Simon the Sorcerer 3D is a good example of that. The industry left the old style behind, and the series never went back to it, but probably no one thinks that the changes in style and gameplay worked for the better.

Old Sierra and LucasArts styles still live on in indie circles though, and to me that is a better proof of success than some commercial development in the industry.

     
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D - 18 June 2020 02:09 AM
Jdawg445 - 17 June 2020 06:47 PM

Story is more important than puzzles, otherwise just play a puzzle game or do a word search.


This is a false dichotomy.  Adventure games aren’t just story or puzzles, with one fighting against the other for dominance. Exploration is a huge part of it. I’m not really all that interested in just sitting down with a puzzle book and doing puzzles. Put those same puzzles in some ancient Egyptian/Mayan ruins or some other setting that interests me and then I’m gung ho about doing puzzles, especially if the art and soundtrack establish a really good atmosphere. Puzzles simply aren’t as fun without the “adventure”. I would also say that simply doing non-stop puzzle after puzzle becomes fatiguing and the enjoyable exploration an adventure game can provide gives you a chance to recharge between challenges.

Disagree the word adventure in of itself describes what a story is. If you told a friend you went on an incredible adventure, they wold ask so whats the “story” behind your adventure. For most gamers its the driving force to keep going in certain games.

For a real world example, i have seen this statement many times on different messageboards. This is not my opinion, “i hate the last of us gameplay, I only continued to see what happens next in the story.”

Another is the walking dead game, after the first episode, they basically cut out all puzzles and any real meaningful gameplay. People continued bc of the story and characters.

I have finished many adventure games bc the story was interesting, even though the puzzles sucked. I cant say i have the same drive the opposite way. Im still only 50 percent done with the witness, bc there is no in depth story, so even though i enjoy the puzzles in that game, i only ever play an hr here or there.

     
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The Cat Moustache Puzzle isn’t as bad as people make out (especially, but not limited to, the Old Man Murray article).

     

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Jdawg445 - 18 June 2020 06:12 AM

Disagree the word adventure in of itself describes what a story is. If you told a friend you went on an incredible adventure, they wold ask so whats the “story” behind your adventure. For most gamers its the driving force to keep going in certain games.

Oh man, I would love to hear how someone would describe some adventures to their friends.
Night Call: “Dude, I went on the most incredible adventure last night! I picked up around 12 passengers in my taxi, and dropped them off! I learnt a lot about them too.”
Telling Lies: “Dude, I went on the most incredible adventure! I listened to a bunch of vid messages on my PC. It was rad.”
Dear Esther: “Dude, I went on such an incredible adventure! I walked slowly through a landscape while poetry recited in my head.” (ok that one actually sounds pretty good) Tongue
Gone Home: “Dude, I went on the most incredible adventure yesterday! I went home!!

 

     
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Vehelon - 18 June 2020 06:40 AM
Jdawg445 - 18 June 2020 06:12 AM

Disagree the word adventure in of itself describes what a story is. If you told a friend you went on an incredible adventure, they wold ask so whats the “story” behind your adventure. For most gamers its the driving force to keep going in certain games.

Oh man, I would love to hear how someone would describe some adventures to their friends.
Night Call: “Dude, I went on the most incredible adventure last night! I picked up around 12 passengers in my taxi, and dropped them off! I learnt a lot about them too.”
Telling Lies: “Dude, I went on the most incredible adventure! I listened to a bunch of vid messages on my PC. It was rad.”
Dear Esther: “Dude, I went on such an incredible adventure! I walked slowly through a landscape while poetry recited in my head.” (ok that one actually sounds pretty good) Tongue
Gone Home: “Dude, I went on the most incredible adventure yesterday! I went home!!

For telling lies the story would be i only had a limited time to solve an old case and unravel a mystery, b4 they come and arrest me bc i stole the thumb drive. Sounds pretty exciting to me. Plus i wouldnt leave out the fact one of the suspects looks like a bootleg, tom hardy lol.

Pretty exciting story to me. Didnt play the other ones

     
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Jdawg445 - 18 June 2020 06:12 AM

Disagree the word adventure in of itself describes what a story is. If you told a friend you went on an incredible adventure, they wold ask so whats the “story” behind your adventure.

If you referred to an adventure story, you’d be talking about what kind of thing happened in the story. But if you talk about an Adventure game, you’re saying that the game is a descendant of the original Crowther&Woods; game “Adventure” rather than describing the events that might happen in the game.

If you met someone whose surname was Smith, you might deduce that they had an ancestor who worked iron. If the descendant can’t shoe your horse, it doesn’t mean they don’t deserve the name Smile

     
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Phlebas - 18 June 2020 09:52 AM
Jdawg445 - 18 June 2020 06:12 AM

Disagree the word adventure in of itself describes what a story is. If you told a friend you went on an incredible adventure, they wold ask so whats the “story” behind your adventure.

If you referred to an adventure story, you’d be talking about what kind of thing happened in the story. But if you talk about an Adventure game, you’re saying that the game is a descendant of the original Crowther&Woods; game “Adventure” rather than describing the events that might happen in the game.

If you met someone whose surname was Smith, you might deduce that they had an ancestor who worked iron. If the descendant can’t shoe your horse, it doesn’t mean they don’t deserve the name Smile

Adventure plain and simple means story, rather its in game form, movie, tv, book etc… in fact I would argue adventure games were the first games to include stories really at all, going back to text Adventures on computers. before that you just had games like pong. so a story has always been vital to adventure games because the story was there at its Inception. So to say stories don’t matter in adventure games to me is just incorrect.

     
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Phlebas - 18 June 2020 09:52 AM

If you met someone whose surname was Smith, you might deduce that they had an ancestor who worked iron. If the descendant can’t shoe your horse, it doesn’t mean they don’t deserve the name Smile

Remember your name is Schmidt.

     
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Jdawg445 - 18 June 2020 06:12 AM

I have finished many adventure games bc the story was interesting, even though the puzzles sucked. I cant say i have the same drive the opposite way. Im still only 50 percent done with the witness, bc there is no in depth story, so even though i enjoy the puzzles in that game, i only ever play an hr here or there.

The Witness is so much more than just a puzzle game, the whole concept is amazing. The different types of puzzles, their relation to the audio tapes and the area; the statues, colours, sounds, optical illusions, simply everything is there to show the player new perspectives. And there’s a story too, a minimal one, but with a twist. One of the most meaningful games I’ve played in my life.

     

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Karlok - 18 June 2020 11:25 AM
Jdawg445 - 18 June 2020 06:12 AM

I have finished many adventure games bc the story was interesting, even though the puzzles sucked. I cant say i have the same drive the opposite way. Im still only 50 percent done with the witness, bc there is no in depth story, so even though i enjoy the puzzles in that game, i only ever play an hr here or there.

The Witness is so much more than just a puzzle game, the whole concept is amazing. The different types of puzzles, their relation to the audio tapes and the area; the statues, colours, sounds, optical illusions, simply everything is there to show the player new perspectives. And there’s a story too, a minimal one, but with a twist. One of the most meaningful games I’ve played in my life.

I find it dull, so I guess add that to my controversial opinions. Puzzles are well designed though

     
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Jdawg445 - 18 June 2020 11:28 AM

I find it dull, so I guess add that to my controversial opinions. Puzzles are well designed though

You’re certainly not alone in this. The Witness is controversial by nature. Some call it pretentious, like that is a bad thing. Innocent  I’d rather call it ambitious.

     

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Karlok - 18 June 2020 12:03 PM
Jdawg445 - 18 June 2020 11:28 AM

I find it dull, so I guess add that to my controversial opinions. Puzzles are well designed though

You’re certainly not alone in this. The Witness is controversial by nature. Some call it pretentious, like that is a bad thing. Innocent  I’d rather call it ambitious.

All of his games are even braid. although I enjoyed that one a lot more it is like a slightly more upscale version of Mario lol.

     

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