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THE AGGIE AWARDS

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novurdim - 26 January 2020 05:55 PM


Honestly, Aggies have a history of ignoring japanese games so I don’t think it’s a surprise that neither YU-NO nor Somnium Files nor NG etc. got any mention. IIRC even one of Ace Attorney games that actually got reviewed at AG (not a trilogy remake) and got 5 stars wasn’t nominated for the best game that year.

The games that appear in the nomination lists are the result of votes amongst the AG staff along with input for the last couple of years from patreons of the site. So a highly rated game review-wise won’t necessarily appear in the nomination list unless it is favoured by enough other contributors in this initial voting process - well that’s the way I understand it.
This is probably more the case for the lack of Japanese games in the final nomination lists rather than them being ignored. The Ace Attorney game (Spirit of Justice? the only one to get 5 stars) was not available to play on platforms accessible to all voters.

A lot of contributions to this site are done on a voluntary basis so you could yourself do more to draw attention to Japanese games if you feel they are being ignored - just a thread about them on the Adventure forum which I’m sure other members would contribute to.

Jackal - 26 January 2020 07:28 PM


Japanese adventures get every bit as much consideration as any other game, every year, period. 

For the record, we didn’t even get review copies of YU-NO and Somnium Files this year, because the companies behind them didn’t reply to our request. We cared; they didn’t. Feel free to lobby them to stop “ignoring” the adventure community.

Japanese adventures are included here in the database however a review obviously helps a lot to promote them. I’ve already mentioned the high price of YU-NO but the normal price of Somnium Files (on sale at the mo) is even higher at £49.99 so really the companies do need to forward free copies to sites like Adventure Gamers in the hope that the game will get a good enough review to persuade gamers to part with their cash! 

novurdim - 27 January 2020 01:53 AM


Somnium Files has 1300+ positive reviews on Steam which is more than any game on the Aggies except the runaway superhit Disco Elysium and very strongly marketed Life is Strange 2. I doubt it can be called less-played or less-heralded than the rest of the list in any way.

Steam attracts fans of many different genres of games, it’s not specific to adventure games so I don’t know how their statistics can be compared to the Aggies on this adventure-specific site?

panpil - 27 January 2020 07:22 AM

Quick question / suggestion : This year add special 2010´s Aggies Awards for the whole decade !
What do you think?

That’s a great idea even if it’s for a fun thread following the Aggie Awards. 

     

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chrissie - 27 January 2020 08:37 AM

The games that appear in the nomination lists are the result of votes amongst the AG staff along with input for the last couple of years from patreons of the site. So a highly rated game review-wise won’t necessarily appear in the nomination list unless it is favoured by enough other contributors in this initial voting process - well that’s the way I understand it.
This is probably more the case for the lack of Japanese games in the final nomination lists rather than them being ignored. The Ace Attorney game (Spirit of Justice? the only one to get 5 stars) was not available to play on platforms accessible to all voters.

If true this is a great explanation that complements my post, both facts are not mutually exclusive. “This is a reason for them being ignored” (at least in terms of nomination posibility which was the root of the discussion) is an absolutely valid conclusion as it looks like indeed staff (+patreon voters) simply aren’t terribly interested in them. Which is not even a bad thing as I should probably repeat.

chrissie - 27 January 2020 08:37 AM

Steam attracts fans of many different genres of games, it’s not specific to adventure games so I don’t know how their statistics can be compared to the Aggies on this adventure-specific site?

There’s no adequate statistics for the “adventure niche popularity” so if we try to operate with the terms “less” or “more played/heralded”, like Jackal did, steam is one of the very few sources for any sound input. LiS2 and DE popularity doesn’t really stem from the adventure niche either so I’m not sure what else you propose. Count the number of mentions on the patreon and forum? But it directly depends on the amount of AG coverage so we’ll just be going in circles.

     
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novurdim - 27 January 2020 09:29 AM


If true this is a great explanation that complements my post, both facts are not mutually exclusive. “This is a reason for them being ignored” (at least in terms of nomination posibility which was the root of the discussion)........

Trust me that the use of either meaning of the word “complements” in your post as far as I’m concerned does not apply to anything that I’ve written.
I don’t know why you’ve put “This is a reason for them being ignored” in quote marks as it’s your quote?
By my reckoning the facts are mutually exclusive as by your reasoning if a game doesn’t get enough votes it’s “ignored”. In that case there are probably a lot of non-Japanese games that didn’t make that nomination list that can also be considered “ignored”.

novurdim - 27 January 2020 09:29 AM


...........is an absolutely valid conclusion as it looks like indeed staff (+patreon voters) simply aren’t terribly interested in them. Which is not even a bad thing as I should probably repeat.

You don’t need to repeat anything.
There were at least (if not precisely) 180 games to forward for nominations - I don’t know for sure how many were reviewed here but I would guess as many as possible.
You’ve conveniently avoided the fact that reviewers weren’t sent copies of the games you’ve mentioned & seem to disregard the exorbitant cost of them here in the UK, the US & Europe so without an astounding review there’s bound not to be a lot of interest from staff & patreon voters who weren’t inclined to spend that kind of money. That would happen to any game selling at that kind of price.

I’m not proposing anything - the Aggies Awards are arranged exclusively by Adventure Gamers so no circles required. If a developer wants to be in the running for an Aggie Award they need to promote their game to the site, provide a free copy to the reviewers, particularly if the purchase price is very high, & generally do a little self promotion here. 

     

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chrissie - 27 January 2020 11:02 AM

Trust me that the use of either meaning of the word “complements” in your post as far as I’m concerned does not apply to anything that I’ve written.

Then as far as I’m concerned you should read up on the word “complements”.

chrissie - 27 January 2020 11:02 AM

I don’t know why you’ve put “This is a reason for them being ignored” in quote marks as it’s your quote?

I don’t know why you believe that quotation marks necessarily imply my quote.

chrissie - 27 January 2020 11:02 AM

By my reckoning the facts are mutually exclusive as by your reasoning if a game doesn’t get enough votes it’s “ignored”. In that case there are probably a lot of non-Japanese games that didn’t make that nomination list that can also be considered “ignored”.

By your reckoning you simply don’t like the word “ignored” and got hang up on it because of the possible negative connotation. Yes, suprise, if a certain group is consistently not nominated, even if we imagine them having actual reviews with good-to-decent scores, they can be considered “ignored” by the Aggies. Mind-blowing, I know.

chrissie - 27 January 2020 11:02 AM

You don’t need to repeat anything.

Looking at your reply I certainly do and more than two times at that.

chrissie - 27 January 2020 11:02 AM

You’ve conveniently avoided the fact that reviewers weren’t sent copies of the games you’ve mentioned & seem to disregard the exorbitant cost of them here in the UK, the US & Europe so without an astounding review there’s bound not to be a lot of interest from staff & patreon voters who weren’t inclined to spend that kind of money. That would happen to any game selling at that kind of price.

I didn’t, while you were busy with your attempts at cheap snarks you missed that I have already commented on the current SC issue. At least I hope that AG send out their requests to SC and not PQube or Aksys who were handling these games in the west just a little time before, because for some reason Jackal consistently says “companies” in regards to YU-NO and Somnium Files publishers while it’s a single entity. Though it’s possibly a figure of speech. And I do deeply sympathy with AG on this case if they were outright ignored by SC. And it’s doesn’t invalidate a whole decade of discussion, though I see that it quite likely does for you.

chrissie - 27 January 2020 11:02 AM

I’m not proposing anything - the Aggies Awards are arranged exclusively by Adventure Gamers so no circles required.

And looks like I do need to repeat once again specifically for you that I completely agree. I’m sorry for clumsily expressing my opinion, english is my effing third language, but you’ll have to bear with it.

     
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“attempts at cheap snarks” - what do you mean?

     
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novurdim - 27 January 2020 01:33 AM

Like, geez, I wasn’t even trying to “accuse” you of anything and tried to be as gentle as possible with my wording, simply telling to the fellow man not to expect japanese games in the main Aggies because it’s fairly far from your expertise.

And NONE of that is true, no matter how many ways you try to spin it. You’re inventing a bias that doesn’t exist to fit your disappointment, when the reality is that we ignored nothing.

As someone whose favourite games ever are the SNES-era JRPGs from Squaresoft and Enix, it’s absurd for me to even consider “ignoring” a Japanese game. And I know I’m not alone on staff in that.

Sometimes, games just aren’t good enough (in people’s entirely valid and obviously subjective opinions) to make a GOTY candidate. And that’s simply been the case “in recent memory,” including the very good but been-there-done-that latest Ace Attorney.

Everything. Just like with the first game that noone ever thought about adding to the traditional adventures. Even the first Telltale’s Walking Dead game was much closer to traditional adventures than… this. We can also now confidently say that pretty much every walking simulator has a very fair shot at getting into the traditional category. (Not such a rhetorical answer.)

That doesn’t answer the question at all. If you think you can, explain how it doesn’t fit the guidelines I stated in an earlier post for how we decided traditional vs. non-traditional.

The “rhetorical” part is that your answer doesn’t ultimately matter. What’s done is done, so no amount of arguing is going to change it. But so far, I’ve seen nothing to make me even question the decision. Just takes me back to the glory days of “Myst is not an adventure!” objections that dogged these forums for so long.

Somnium Files has 1300+ positive reviews on Steam which is more than any game on the Aggies except the runaway superhit Disco Elysium and very strongly marketed Life is Strange 2. I doubt it can be called less-played or less-heralded than the rest of the list in any way.

The “less-played/less-heralded” reference was to AG staff (and Patreon supporters). With maybe 30 people choosing from 180 games, some games inevitably end up being played by fewer people than others, and therefore have less Aggie representation. (A factor we take into account.)

PlanetX - 27 January 2020 06:12 AM

I’d say just do away with the distinction between traditional and non traditional in the future. It just fuels pointless purity testing. There’s always been adventure games that buck the trends but are nevertheless clearly a part of the genre.

That would certainly cut down on a bit of whinging. But as I said earlier, they’re really just “bonus” awards to recognize both the games that are consciously pushing boundaries and those that are content to stay with the tried-and-true formulas, so that neither gets lost in the shuffle of the other. The entire point is that BOTH types of games are “part of the genre.” See TheLongestJourney’s earlier post for why that’s important.

Plus it creates a final bit of “showdown” suspense for GOTY. Smile

panpil - 27 January 2020 07:22 AM

This year add special 2010´s Aggies Awards for the whole decade !

Thanks, panpil, and welcome! It’s a great idea and I did indeed consider something along those lines, but the yearly awards themselves are simply too much work to add something like that on top.

That said, never say never. Now that you’ve got me thinking of it again, I’ll mull it over more. No promises, though!

chrissie - 27 January 2020 08:37 AM

A lot of contributions to this site are done on a voluntary basis so you could yourself do more to draw attention to Japanese games if you feel they are being ignored - just a thread about them on the Adventure forum which I’m sure other members would contribute to.

Couldn’t agree more on this, chrissie! And novurdim, I will indeed look into Master Magistrate. Hadn’t ever heard of it before, so appreciate the heads-up.

And now, since all this bickering over nothing is a waste of time and completely undermines the spirit of the Aggies, on to more important matters… Reader Poll is up! Vote now or forever hold your peace.

     

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You mean like how we gave Last Window game of the year? And how Japanese games used to regularly win our “Best Handheld/Console” category back when there were enough of them to merit giving their own award?

Japanese adventures get every bit as much consideration as any other game, every year, period.

Yea, when the DS came out, because it had two screens and one of them touch activated it got LOTS of unique adventure games so an Aggie for best console handheld at the time made perfect sense.

Today, the Switch lite is the king of handhelds and although it gets TONS of adventure game releases, most of them are also released on the PC as well.

So, handheld adventure gaming is alive and well, but it shares its games now for the most part with the PC and PS4.

I recall when Dangaronpa was released for the PC, this was the PSVITA’s Crown Jewels. Without exclusive titles, it is kinda hard to recommend buying the system.

It does make a CPT of the game far easier however. I’d love a CPT of any of the Dangaronpa games.

It was nice that Dangaronpa V3 got a silver Aggie for best Japanese game, hope we see more of that in the future.

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At this point there’s little reason to continue so I’m bowing out. I said everything I wanted to, someone probably read it without a single ultimate goal of finding fault with my wording like a cute lil chrissie kitten. It’s adorable in a way, that has been my first real experience of talking to something suspiciously resembling a real cat.

I stand by everything I said, it’s a bit disappointing to see that you think you’ve been doing a perfect job of covering japanese games this past decade but alas, I can only express my subjective opinion. Good luck with the Aggies, if possible please don’t crown Life is Strange 2.

     
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novurdim - 27 January 2020 03:29 PM

I stand by everything I said, it’s a bit disappointing to see that you think you’ve been doing a perfect job of covering japanese games…......

If you’re really sincere about the games help us out here novurdim by contributing rather than criticising.

     

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chrissie - 27 January 2020 08:37 AM
panpil - 27 January 2020 07:22 AM

Quick question / suggestion : This year add special 2010´s Aggies Awards for the whole decade !
What do you think?

That’s a great idea even if it’s for a fun thread following the Aggie Awards.

Agreed. I would really like to see other people’s choices, so I’m going to make a thread.

     
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novurdim - 27 January 2020 03:29 PM

I said everything I wanted to, someone probably read it without a single ultimate goal of finding fault with my wording like a cute lil chrissie kitten.

If you think that I don’t think you know how you are coming across.

novurdim - 27 January 2020 03:29 PM

I stand by everything I said, it’s a bit disappointing to see that you think you’ve been doing a perfect job of covering japanese games…......

I think your overall negativity has been rather overbearing. Especially since most of us are here to celebrate something that’s pretty meaningful to us.

     

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minhta - 28 January 2020 03:56 AM

I think your overall negativity has been rather overbearing. Especially since most of us are here to celebrate something that’s pretty meaningful to us.

Yeah, I’m sorry for all that, I got too heated about topics that don’t even matter that much. I have always enjoyed reading AG despite the fact that it has always striked me personally as a site with fairly little focus on japanese ADV. That’s why it was my intention to simply tell the guy not to take too close to the heart the fact that japanese games may not be covered, reviewed or nominated quite as often here, an absolutely positive intention at heart, not an accusation in any way or form. But I never realised that it was only me who perceived AG as a site with little focus on japanese games so I only ended up brewing unnecessary hostility in myself and everyone around me. My sincere apologies for that.

     
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Jackal - 27 January 2020 12:26 PM

The “less-played/less-heralded” reference was to AG staff (and Patreon supporters). With maybe 30 people choosing from 180 games, some games inevitably end up being played by fewer people than others, and therefore have less Aggie representation.

I am curious about this bit of your post. I’m a Patreon supporter. And I believe one of the “perks” of being a supporter was to have AGGIE input. And your response implies that we had input, over and above that available to a regular forum member. I can say without equivocation that I never was offered an opportunity to provide input. It’s one of the reasons I cancelled my subscription today. So your add on “(and Patreon supporters)” is simply incorrect.

     

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I am a Patreon supporter and I received an email on 11 January titled ‘We want YOUR Aggies Nomination!’ that invited supporters to nominate adventure games before 19 January.

Hopefully, this was an oversight/email filter issue as I think your input would be greatly appreciated. I have followed your posts (especially on casual games) and have been exposed to a number of great games thanks to you.

- longtime lurker, first-time poster

 

     
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rtrooney - 01 February 2020 07:35 PM

I’m a Patreon supporter. And I believe one of the “perks” of being a supporter was to have AGGIE input. And your response implies that we had input, over and above that available to a regular forum member. I can say without equivocation that I never was offered an opportunity to provide input. It’s one of the reasons I cancelled my subscription today. So your add on “(and Patreon supporters)” is simply incorrect.

Didn’t you unsubscribe in December ‘19? That might be the reason.

     

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