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Gabrielrtrooney

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Dated Artwork/Graphics

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Despite the title of my thread I don’t consider there to be any such thing! (Well I do in my own head!)

I don’t get why Stonewell Penitentiary is described as having ‘dated graphics’ whereas the current trend for pixelated graphics is not considered ‘dated’????
The artwork for SP was I thought far superior to the extreme retro graphics of e.g. The Darkside Detective which wasn’t berated one bit for, in my mind, the terrible DATED graphics! - I’ve seen a lot of early game screenshots which for the most part aren’t nearly as pixelated as some newer games - are modern developers trying to beat the old in how bad they can make their games look when there’s really no need? Laughing

     
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This is just me, and I haven’t seen the game in motion so I don’t know how it works, but my first impression of the graphics of Stonewell Penitentiary is, that it looks like the graphics were run through as several Photoshop filers in order to hide that its quality isn’t that hight.

The impression it gives is something akin to what you people did with graphics back in the day when someone figured out how to use edge filtering and paintbrush effects in order to make something look like it was painted instead of a photo or something. It never was a good look and I don’t think anyone is super nostalgic about it. Tie that to the fact, that the graphics seem to be 3D, that does kind make it worse and adds to the feeling of “being dated”.

As you might know, I am not the biggest fan of modern retro art. While it does sometimes work, I often feel it doesn’t. Art is an interesting thing, as it can often be tied to some certain era like the 1980s had a very specific style people think when they think of 1980’s pop art. If someone uses the style, people notice and find it either amusing, nostalgic or dated.

If they see something that was painted 300-years ago, they might think the style is dated, as they’ve grown accustomed to what modern artists do, the same way modern kids have grown accustomed to 3D-animated cartoons and might find traditionally animated ones off-putting.

     
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chrissie - 09 December 2018 01:42 PM

I don’t get why Stonewell Penitentiary is described as having ‘dated graphics’ whereas the current trend for pixelated graphics is not considered ‘dated’????

It looks dated.
Reminds me of early multimedia CD-ROM games with 16-bit colour palette.

I haven’t played the game so I don’t know how it feels while playing. I also don’t know if going for this style was a choice, or if it just happened somehow.

Comparing this to pixelart isn’t very meaningful, as it’s a completely different kind of graphics created with different set of tools.

chrissie - 09 December 2018 01:42 PM

The artwork for SP was I thought far superior to the extreme retro graphics of e.g. The Darkside Detective which wasn’t berated one bit for, in my mind, the terrible DATED graphics!

I haven’t played Darkside Detective yet, but I absolutely love screenshots from that game!  Heart

chrissie - 09 December 2018 01:42 PM

I’ve seen a lot of early game screenshots which for the most part aren’t nearly as pixelated as some newer games - are modern developers trying to beat the old in how bad they can make their games look when there’s really no need? Laughing

Being “pixelated” isn’t a measurement of good and bad, unless you are literally counting screen resolution.

Pixelart is an artform in itself. I have been thinking about trying to create a game with pixelart graphics, but so far haven’t even dared to try. Many things are so difficult to create with pixelart. For instance, creating a speaking animation is not even an issue with any resolution that is 800x640 or higher and you are using realistic style, cartoon style, or something. Creating a speaking animation with pixelart is a challenge, and usually involves characters’ heads moving up and down.

What you consider “bad” often takes much more creative skills than you would assume.

I think you also get confused with technical limitations vs. art direction. Just because you could use more pixels, it doesn’t mean that you must.

I guess you could consider pixelart as digital pointillism, if that makes it easier to understand.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pointillism

 

     
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This looks more artistic that most pixelated games, by virtue of being original.

Just looks like people are less used to this style.

     
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chrissie - 09 December 2018 01:42 PM


The artwork for SP was I thought far superior to the extreme retro graphics of e.g. The Darkside Detective which wasn’t berated one bit for, in my mind, the terrible DATED graphics!

Well chrissie, if it’s in your mind, then you won’t mind pointing out which game & date the graphics of Darkside Detective remind you of?  Smile

     

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Regarding Stonewell Penitentiary, the biggest flaw isn’t really that the game looks dated, it’s the complete lack of consistency in the art direction.

Again, I haven’t played the game and there can be a perfectly good reason for that. Such as “a game within a game” kind of situation, or different graphics style being used to represent different era, reality, or state of mind.

But simply going by screenshots, it does look a bit off.

(All following images linked from Mobygames)

For instance, these kind of screenshots remind me of early multimedia games with technical limitations. Just look at how that shadow in the upper or lower corner is made. No seamless blending, but very clearcut borders between 2-3 different shades.

But in this screenshot, the areas between light and shadow don’t have that kind of border, but are more realistic looking.

And then of course there are screenshots like this one, where the Christmas tree seems to be almost cartoon style, but the background, especially the fire, looks realistic. Also note how the shadows are not consistent at all. The tree branches have no shadows at all, but the presents below are very dark, even though the light source seems to be coming from the left side behind the fourth wall. Also note how the shadows in this screenshot are seamless again, unlike in the first screenshot.

So it’s very difficult to say what this graphical style is going for.

If you take a random retro-looking pixelart game, I can almost guarantee that the graphics style is going to be more consistent.

But once again, I haven’t actually played this game, and everything can have a very logical reason for being the way it is.

     
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Thanks for the interesting comments tomimt, namehaver & GateKeeper. 

I’m guessing that Stonewall Penitentiary following the text remakes of Lifestream. Shady Brook & The Filmmaker was never originally intended to be presented with full screen graphics?

GateKeeper, I think the differences in the art style are so subtle within the game not to be noticeable at least by me - the Christmas screenshot is from a flashback within the game. The graphical style to me looks like someone drawing on grainy newsprint which I like but obviously looks dated & doesn’t appeal to some players but I agree with namehaver that it does look more artistic than in pixelated games.
It wouldn’t be the first game I’ve come across where the art style is inconsistent though & more noticeably so - I’ll post here if I come across the games again as I can’t remember them just now!

I’d be interested in some screenshots of the early multimedia games you mentioned!

GateKeeper - 09 December 2018 07:01 PM


Comparing this to pixelart isn’t very meaningful, as it’s a completely different kind of graphics created with different set of tools.

I completely disagree! The comparison is completely meaningful.

The visuals of a game can bring a story to life & immerse you in a game world from basic drawings of stickmen to full blown FMV.
I’m sorry; I just don’t get how big blocky colours of pixel art can help to immerse me in a game world????

Donuts McGee - 10 December 2018 02:07 AM
chrissie - 09 December 2018 01:42 PM


The artwork for SP was I thought far superior to the extreme retro graphics of e.g. The Darkside Detective which wasn’t berated one bit for, in my mind, the terrible DATED graphics!

Well chrissie, if it’s in your mind, then you won’t mind pointing out which game & date the graphics of Darkside Detective remind you of?  Smile

Well, you’ve got me there as actually it doesn’t because I can’t think of anything dated that’s got graphics so terrible!

GateKeeper - 09 December 2018 07:01 PM


Being “pixelated” isn’t a measurement of good and bad, unless you are literally counting screen resolution.

Pixelart is an artform in itself. I have been thinking about trying to create a game with pixelart graphics, but so far haven’t even dared to try. Many things are so difficult to create with pixelart. For instance, creating a speaking animation is not even an issue with any resolution that is 800x640 or higher and you are using realistic style, cartoon style, or something. Creating a speaking animation with pixelart is a challenge, and usually involves characters’ heads moving up and down.

What you consider “bad” often takes much more creative skills than you would assume.

I think you also get confused with technical limitations vs. art direction. Just because you could use more pixels, it doesn’t mean that you must.

I guess you could consider pixelart as digital pointillism, if that makes it easier to understand.

Sorry, pixelated in a game to me is bad! If pixelart is an artform then put it where it belongs - on an art gallery wall! If you want to waste your time being creative with “bad” I won’t buy it!
I’m not confused with anything & trying to describe pixelart as digital pointillism is very deluded & insulting to the wonderful artists of old that used that method.

I’d be interested to know just how many players actually like this pixelated art?

 

     
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I agree that it often just looks plain ugly to use highly pixelated graphics in this day and age. There are however some new games with that style that still looks good IMO, like Owlboy and Lamplight City.

I think the trick is to use its strengths (getting a less sterile look) while avoiding its shortcomings (looking blocky).

     

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Henke - 10 December 2018 02:09 PM

I agree that it often just looks plain ugly to use highly pixelated graphics in this day and age. There are however some new games with that style that still looks good IMO, like Owlboy and Lamplight City.

I think the trick is to use its strengths (getting a less sterile look) while avoiding its shortcomings (looking blocky).

I don’t know about Owlboy but certainly the graphics of Lamplight City look normal, not highly pixelated & typical of an AGS game.  Smile


As an example I believe the 1st to be an ‘artistic’ choice & the 2nd to be what can be done with the AGS application.

Please tell me anyone why you think the first presentation, an obvious mullering of graphics, is better than the second making good use of the AGS facility ????

The second scene is by far the more immersive.

     
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In case of The Darkside Detective, I think the game was good despite the retro graphics. Not only were the graphics limited, you can’t even walk in that game, and you just navigate from screen to screen by clicking on a door or an exit. Despite all this though, the writing was so good, and the game so funny that it transcended all this and is one of my favorite traditional adventure games since the classic era. Goes to show that graphics is just a small piece of what makes any game great.

That being said, just because a game is retro looking does not diminish from its artistic qualities. One of the best examples is Return of the Obra Dinn. Lucas Pope was going for a mid 80’s mac/PC game look(you can even choose graphic filter for commodore 64, ibm PC, Mac etc..) and he came up with something like this:

This art style is so unique and amazing, it actually won best art direction in the game awards against AAA titles like God of War and Red Dead Redemption 2.

As far as pixelated graphics, some developers are doing some amazing things with them.

Look at these pixel graphics in the Owlboy. I would take this over many modern looking games.

In adveture games, the Foxtale recently looks stunning:

     
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Thanks for your post SoccerDude, none of those games qualify for the over-pixelated game awards but they all look very interesting.  Smile

     
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There is a certain degree of skill you need to make pixelated art look really good and Owlboy looks like a game that had people in the art team who understood how pixel artworks and how to make it work for you.

I’ve noticed many of the modern artists don’t really understand pixel art, as it generates from a time of technical limitations, which don’t exist anymore. The art was done like that because that was what the computers were capable of showing as well as producing as far art applications go.

Nowadays when people do pixel art, the limitations are fully artificial and I do think it is noticeable when some piece of art has been originally done in a higher resolution and then just scaled down to pixelate it more. To me that rarely looks good. But if you have an artist, who understands where the limitations came from and know how to adjust the workflow so that modern the modern tools in use produce a similar outcome, it can work.

     
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we have to consider that the art direction is a stage at developing any adventure that has to come ahead of anything else, whether the Gameplay or the even the Design itself, and i am talking about nowadays, not in general, because before companies used to push the roof from every adventure to the next, even after Sierra and LucasArts were gone. i can say it was until 2006 that indies flourished and considered that there are many fans (only in our genre) do not mind ‘outdated’ graphics that looked like they come from the old/golden era.

So at the beginning of the genre, it was the matter of the technology and now its the matter of the budget and the tools in hand… plus keeping in mind the publishers(ing) that you gotta impress.

If we consider this example of The Dream Machine (below), Before and after their decision to change the artistic direction of the game, we can see how critical the art direction is.


i think at the end of the day that pixel-art is not an easy job at all, and we might wanna cherish it and the companies like Wadjeteye that came with many titles that are even to the golden era classics.

     
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chrissie - 10 December 2018 12:27 PM

GateKeeper, I think the differences in the art style are so subtle within the game not to be noticeable at least by me

The visuals of a game can bring a story to life & immerse you in a game world from basic drawings of stickmen to full blown FMV.
I’m sorry; I just don’t get how big blocky colours of pixel art can help to immerse me in a game world????

If the game and its story are interesting enough, you might not pay attention to details. That has happened to me too. That’s what good stories do.

On the same note, however, it shouldn’t really matter what kind of graphics the game is using, or no graphics at all. In story-driven games it’s all about the story, and graphics is (if there is any) just a vehicle to support it.

I really don’t understand how graphics can prevent immersion, if it’s internally consistent. I mean, in Sam & Max games you try to immerse yourself in a wacko world by guiding a talking dog and his sidekick bunny. Does it really matter that much whether the graphics is LucasArts pixelart or Telltale “realistic” style?
It’s all made up nonsense world anyway?

Unless you are trying to find some hardcore realism, which is almost non-existent in adventure genre anyway, then the style of graphics really shouldn’t make any difference.

One of my favorite theories is one often presented by Nicholas Meyer, the director of Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan (among other things).

“I think that art thrives on restrictions that is for sure.

...

And I think that art that leaves things to the imagination of the viewer or the audience or the reader tends to engage them more fully than art that leaves nothing to the imagination.”

That very well relates to pixelart style, yes?

chrissie - 10 December 2018 12:27 PM

I’d be interested in some screenshots of the early multimedia games you mentioned!

One example that we all are familiar with is Gabriel Knight: The Beast Within.

Look at lights and shadows on that backwall. Looks exactly like the shadows in the game you’re talking about, only 20 years prior.

chrissie - 10 December 2018 12:27 PM
Donuts McGee - 10 December 2018 02:07 AM
chrissie - 09 December 2018 01:42 PM


The artwork for SP was I thought far superior to the extreme retro graphics of e.g. The Darkside Detective which wasn’t berated one bit for, in my mind, the terrible DATED graphics!

Well chrissie, if it’s in your mind, then you won’t mind pointing out which game & date the graphics of Darkside Detective remind you of?  Smile

Well, you’ve got me there as actually it doesn’t because I can’t think of anything dated that’s got graphics so terrible!


The Darkside Detective actually isn’t dated in the same sense as the original pixelart is. Let’s look at this image.

The graphics style is obviously very much inspired by the early adventure games, and is an artistic choice. But if you look at the details again, it’s completely different from the technically limited pixelarts. Look at the reflections and glowing around characters. That is much more detailed than the “pixels” that the characters are made of. Absolutely no classic adventure game had graphics like this.

chrissie - 10 December 2018 12:27 PM

Sorry, pixelated in a game to me is bad! If pixelart is an artform then put it where it belongs - on an art gallery wall! If you want to waste your time being creative with “bad” I won’t buy it!

Pixelart has been in art galleries many times!

One exhibition that is definitely worth checking out is Game On, if you happen to be anywhere near it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_On_(exhibition)

In case it’s too far, there are lots of other exhibitions too, although maybe not as extensive as Game On.

     
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I looked up this game and it has very strange looking character models that I believe veer into the uncanny valley. This is where the dated descriptor could be coming from. 



I can’t really explain why pixel art characters work more than this pseudo-pseudo-realistic art style. I’ve heard the theory that with less detail you can project a personality much more easily to a minimalist avatar. However, I just think the minimalist approach is more pleasing for the brain to process.

     
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tea_tree - 11 December 2018 08:45 PM

I looked up this game and it has very strange looking character models that I believe veer into the uncanny valley. This is where the dated descriptor could be coming from.

It’s coming from the fact that the game is, quite literally, dated. It was made in the mid 00s and left unfinished as Unimatrix Productions went into dormancy for around a decade.

It was then recently revived, finished and released along with the other already released Unimatrix Productions titles in a different format which is much closer to interactive fiction.

I’m guessing the graphics filters were used to hide the obviously dated quality of the graphics but clearly, unless your name is chrissie, they haven’t worked.

It’s still a pretty good game, if B-movie mystery/thrillers are your thing.

     

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