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Moebius

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Frogacuda - 28 April 2014 09:49 PM

I think my real disappointment here is just my belief in the Kickstarter movement was based on the premise that if the adventure genre had its great writer/designers back, and in a position of creative control, it could produce works equal to those of their glory days…

I think that it is your whole premise that was false and perhaps a bit naive.

The golden age of AG in the mid 90’s wasn’t just a result of a few brilliant designers, it was much more then that, not least that there was a much larger market for them and some big professional companies producing a large number of AG.

Just because some of the big names return to the scene, then it doesn’t automatically mean that they will make great games, that was always going to a bit of hit or miss. I mean just look at the last 3 Star Wars movies that George Lucas made, not nearly as good as the three original movies even though the technology has made these kind of movies much easier to make.

My own hope for the future of AG and with Kickstarter has never lied with the return of these big names, that was always only the icing on the cake for me, instead it lies with the myriad of young new developers, who are given a chance they might not have gotten otherwise.

     

You have to play the game, to find out why you are playing the game! - eXistenZ

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gray pierce - 29 April 2014 04:53 AM

Part of me wants to say Moebius with all its faults is better than BS5 because of how the BS series tried to ‘move on’ from traditional AG and failed - their box puzzles and action scenes in 3 and 4 didn’t work so they just gave up, and now people are realising how much they missed the old style.

Hey I really like the Sleeping Dragon! It’s my favourite Broken Sword so far! Don’t compare it to the awful The Angel of Death.

The Sleeping Dragon has an awesome plot, great characters and dialogue, beautiful locations, very fun puzzles save for some box puzzles later in the game, a really cool soundtrack and a fantastic ending.

The Angel of Death on the other hand has none of the these.

Totally agree. But the box puzzles in both games were still shit.

     
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Games are and always will be the sum of the whole rather than just one specific person. Sure, there are some cases where one extremely talented person can wipe a floor with much larger group, but in general the end result will be only as good as the group of people working on it are.

That’s one reason besides budget why Broken Age and Broken Sword 5 both feel better than Moebius does, as despite all their best intentions POS just isn’t in the same place professionally with Revolution or Double Fine. When it comes down to it POS still looks like a group of enthustiastic amateurs rather than full pledged pro’s.

     

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gray pierce - 29 April 2014 04:53 AM

I think you’re mistaking budget for quality. One is not needed for the other. Gemini Rue is imo one of the greatest games of all time and though I haven’t really gt a clue as to the budget of that game I doubt it was very high.

I think it’s about adjusting the game development to the budget and team skills. If you can’t do something properly, then find a cheaper/easier way to do it, but don’t make compromises on quality. I think that was the biggest reason for Moebius’ technical faults - the ‘cinematic’ game design with different camera angles and close-ups was simply too ambitious for the budget and team skills.

     
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UPtimist - 29 April 2014 02:22 AM
Frogacuda - 28 April 2014 09:49 PM

I think my real disappointment here is just my belief in the Kickstarter movement was based on the premise that if the adventure genre had its great writer/designers back, and in a position of creative control, it could produce works equal to those of their glory days, and whether you’re a Moebius apologist or not, that seems to be false in this case.

Of course I think Broken Age was very good (so far), Broken Sword 5 was a worthy return to form, and I expect good things from Dreamfall and Armikrog, so it may prove worthwhile in the end, but clearly it’s not an instant formula for success, or successes greater than other less established designers.

Right… I did never believe you could really get games like that quite so “easily”. Especially with Pinkerton Road’s measly 400k. Though I admit I am expecting - or at least hoping for - something in the longer run, assuming they do manage to get their funding in a better order (though I feel that in the technical side at least Phoenix Online hasn’t quite reached the level they need to reach).

I actually think they did a great job with the budget they had. What I was talking about was just the quality of the writing itself. That’s the core of what makes adventure games good and I expected more from Jane there. I felt the same about the SapceVenture demo—it looks good for the budget, but I didn’t laugh once and that’s really what made me sad.

But again, maybe that’ll be the anomaly. Broken Age was certainly funny and charming like all Tim’s games, and Broken Sword while not QUITE as sharp as the original was certainly in the ballpark.

     
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Frogacuda - 29 April 2014 10:09 AM

. I felt the same about the SapceVenture demo—it looks good for the budget, but I didn’t laugh once and that’s really what made me sad.

There really wasn’t that much writing in the SpaceVenture tech demo. It pretty much was nothing else but a proof of concept of their art style the direction they were heading. It was clearly missing pretty much all the other content besides some puzzles.

     

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Frogacuda - 29 April 2014 10:09 AM

I actually think they did a great job with the budget they had. What I was talking about was just the quality of the writing itself. That’s the core of what makes adventure games good and I expected more from Jane there.

Sadly that’s an extremely subjective matter and not predictable when you back; while competent, I actually never laughed once at Broken Age and from what I experienced it’s by far the worst Tim’s or DF’s effort up to now, while Moebius’ writing style does give me extremely strong Jane vibes, even if the script falls apart by the end.

     
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Iznogood - 29 April 2014 04:57 AM

My own hope for the future of AG and with Kickstarter has never lied with the return of these big names, that was always only the icing on the cake for me, instead it lies with the myriad of young new developers, who are given a chance they might not have gotten otherwise.

^ This.

teme - 29 April 2014 06:39 AM

I think it’s about adjusting the game development to the budget and team skills. If you can’t do something properly, then find a cheaper/easier way to do it, but don’t make compromises on quality. I think that was the biggest reason for Moebius’ technical faults - the ‘cinematic’ game design with different camera angles and close-ups was simply too ambitious for the budget and team skills.

I can agree with this, but sometimes you can’t do things cheaper/easier without reworking far too much of the content. It’s a fine line to walk…

     

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Iznogood - 29 April 2014 04:57 AM

Just because some of the big names return to the scene, then it doesn’t automatically mean that they will make great games,...

My own hope for the future of AG and with Kickstarter has never lied with the return of these big names, that was always only the icing on the cake for me, instead it lies with the myriad of young new developers, who are given a chance they might not have gotten otherwise.

I’d like to believe there’s room for both. There are a number of designers from the 80s/90s (like Jane and Tim) who absolutely should come back, and hopefully find a KS market for.

The problem is - and I think alot of folks have discovered this the KS “market” is smaller than once thought. Hopefully, it will expand, but market realities certainly can’t support every old designer coming out the woodwork. I must have supported 9,234,982 kickstarters last year*, and a number didn’t make it - despite being from designers who delivered terrific experiences in the past. I don’t think it’s KS fatigue - I think that currently the number of people who pay attention to Kickstarter + old adventure game fans** is smaller than we originally thought.

And while I wouldn’t call it KS fatigue, I think the novelty has worn off, and there maybe a bit of disillusion. The Leisure Suit Larry game is a good example - in the end, it didn’t sell very well (among other issues) and a nostalgia-fueled project can only go so far. (And I should add I love the original and the remake, but I’m not surprised it didn’t sell huge numbers due to its rather small audience base.)

New developers and designers of course will struggle with a lack of name recognition and trust in their product. We’re all *still* just learning how Kickstarter will work - and when we’ll see that first HUGE KS success. Probably the biggest success so far is The Banner Saga…but there’s much more coming out soon.

My point was that I would hope Kickstarter can become viable enough for old designers that we love to co-exist with whippersnappers. I love KS - and I love what it’s been able to both give birth to (The Banner Saga) and resurrect (classic adventuring.)

Jane and co. attempted their own version of a KS model with the Community Supported Gaming idea which I’m sad they seem to have abandoned - I suppose it doesn’t work with game realities, but I loved the idea of giving a set amount to be a member who then received all games from that studio. It felt like a season pass.

Wait - I’m derailing a thread about Moebius! And I haven’t played it! I will! Soon!

* this is an estimate.
** a Venn diagram would be useful here.

 

     

“The ability to dream is all I have to give. That is my responsibility; that is my burden. And even I grow tired.”
― Harlan Ellison, Stalking the Nightmare

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