Adventure Gamers - Forums

tomimt - 01 April 2014 07:16 AM

By the way, does Moebius remind anyone else of 80’s action movies? Perhaps it’s the music or the way those action scenes are done, but I get a huge 80’s feeling from it.

I dont know if id specifically say 80’s, but definitely a spy movie vibe.

nomadsoul - 01 April 2014 04:58 AM

The studio is bringing her down by their as you put it sophomore execution.

Oh good lord.  That’s not at all what I said.

I love how people are so reverent of Jane’s talent and ideas, yet don’t trust her to make a judgment call on what studio she feels would be best suited to executing her vision.

Lambonius - 01 April 2014 12:57 PM

I love how people are so reverent of Jane’s talent and ideas, yet don’t trust her to make a judgment call on what studio she feels would be best suited to executing her vision.

So sophomore effort has positve connotations??

I believe writing story and puzzle design is her skill, builtin potential which she can always reinvent with time, while planning, leading, decisions and control are all Managerial stuff that she or anyone can fail like Tim did. Cant blame her for that, and perhaps its cronyism that led to that decision.

And if they really did outsource stuff to india then

Bogi - 01 April 2014 10:02 AM

That’s why I dropped all illusions long ago.

Games need to be made by well paid hard-core professionals, not some fan-boys(girls).

Guess we’re not going to be getting many new adventures then, coz the budget isn’t there for most adventures to be developed by “well-paid hard-core professionals”. Unless of course yourself, nomadsoul, and Tad are willing to stump up a couple of million to pay for it.

The animation and character models in Moebius certainly aren’t perfect, the same as they weren’t in Cognition, but I do feel some people seem to have rather unrealistic expectations. The issues Tim Schaffer had with a far larger budget for Broken Age are well-known enough - where are all the games with the scope of Moebius with a similar budget & far better animation. Not sure I’ve spotted them…

giom - 01 April 2014 02:47 AM

I don’t like to rant on their work and I know that it can be soul crushing to see people comment negatively on something you spent a lot of your time on so I feel a bit like an asshole for saying all this,

There’s nothing wrong with constructive criticism. You made some fair points with a balanced tone. I don’t have to agree with you totally, but there was nothing in your posts that should be too offensive or soul crushing for anyone. I’m less convinced re the others named above.

nomadsoul - 01 April 2014 01:24 PM

So sophomore effort has positive connotations??

I’m having a hard time telling whether or not you seriously don’t know what the phrase “sophomore effort” means, or if you’re just screwing with me.

But just in case, it means “the second in a series of efforts.”

You’re thinking of the term “sophomoric,” which is a designation of quality.

DaveyB - 01 April 2014 02:25 PM

Bogi - 01 April 2014 10:02 AM

That’s why I dropped all illusions long ago.

Games need to be made by well paid hard-core professionals, not some fan-boys(girls).

Guess we’re not going to be getting many new adventures then, coz the budget isn’t there for most adventures to be developed by “well-paid hard-core professionals”. Unless of course yourself, nomadsoul, and Tad are willing to stump up a couple of million to pay for it.

The animation and character models in Moebius certainly aren’t perfect, the same as they weren’t in Cognition, but I do feel some people seem to have rather unrealistic expectations. The issues Tim Schaffer had with a far larger budget for Broken Age are well-known enough - where are all the games with the scope of Moebius with a similar budget & far better animation. Not sure I’ve spotted them…

 

“Something is better than nothing” for someone, for someone else - it isn’t. It’s a matter of personal choice.
I presume you belong in the first group, and myself in the later. It’s all fine, this would be a very boring world if everyone would think the same. To each his own I guess.

DaveyB - 01 April 2014 02:25 PM

Guess we’re not going to be getting many new adventures then, coz the budget isn’t there for most adventures to be developed by “well-paid hard-core professionals”. Unless of course yourself, nomadsoul, and Tad are willing to stump up a couple of million to pay for it.
The issues Tim Schaffer had with a far larger budget for Broken Age are well-known enough - where are all the games with the scope of Moebius with a similar budget & far better animation. Not sure I’ve spotted them.

Goty winner/nominated, there is reason why Indies are showing whats up, whats wrong.
Can take time but i have pointed that out hundred times that a single man
can triumph over others, HR is problem, hire good quality talent.
Make teams with talented people, not out of passion or out of friendship.

And if you do that then let the customers like us to judge your product.

I would pay million to Papers,please guy or some other indie guys or some talented people who can tell same story of Moebius with same gameplay elements but with different art direction and stylization.

I would love to refresh our memeories that Cecil accepted the criticism to change
George’s face, which many people were defending, but Cecil was reasonable enough to
see the issue and rectified. Still there were people who were calling me and others
armchair specialists. Result he listened and fixed. Moebius also needs fixing here and there, its not that broken.

Bogi - 01 April 2014 03:06 PM

“Something is better than nothing” for someone, for someone else - it isn’t. It’s a matter of personal choice.
I presume you belong in the first group, and myself in the later. It’s all fine, this would be a very boring world if everyone would think the same. To each his own I guess.

Yep. I’d rather have Moebius with imperfect graphics and animation, you’d rather not have it at all. Fair enough. Graphics and animation aren’t deal breakers for me, GK3 had similar flaws yet it remains in my top 6 adventures. But as you say, to each their own…

nomadsoul - 01 April 2014 04:14 PM

Goty winner/nominated, there is reason why Indies are showing whats up, whats wrong.
Can take time but i have pointed that out hundred times that a single man
can triumph over others, HR is problem, hire good quality talent.
Make teams with talented people, not out of passion or out of friendship.

Now I admit I haven’t played Kentucky Roue Zero, I did look desperately for it in the “Best Animation” category of the 2013 Aggies…yet funnily enough didn’t spot it. I do know & like “Papers Please” but wouldn’t exactly say animation was its crowning glory either. From what I know re making computer games (admittedly I’m certainly no expert), good animation is extremely expensive. And what Jane Jensen wanted (maybe unrealistically) for Moebius was cinema-style camera shots with various angles, close-ups etc etc. As I said, quote me a game with far better animation than Moebius at a similar budget. As it is, with Kentucky Route Zero & Papers Please, you’re not comparing apples with pears, rather apples with bricks.

nomadsoul - 01 April 2014 04:14 PM

And if you do that then let the customers like us to judge your product.

Don’t they always…but being as the product hasn’t even been released yet, I’m not quite sure how you’re already a customer lol. Jumping the gun?

nomadsoul - 01 April 2014 04:14 PM

I would pay million to Papers,please guy or some other indie guys or some talented people who can tell same story of Moebius with same gameplay elements but with different art direction and stylization.

The main criticism of Moebius has been the animation, don’t know what your issue is with the art direction. I’d have certainly thought that JJ would have significant input there…and if she doesn’t have, then she should!

nomadsoul - 01 April 2014 04:14 PM

Moebius also needs fixing here and there, its not that broken.

I have no idea what you expect, but the game’s finished. Release date is only delayed due to Phoenix Online Publishing needing time. What exactly do you think should be “fixable” within a couple of weeks, please tell.

nomadsoul - 01 April 2014 01:24 PM

And if they really did outsource stuff to india then

And what exactly is the problem with outsourcing some work to India?

I only just started Chapter 1 now.
Malachi’s way of posing and walking doesn’t look very healthy to me, just very…odd.
While standing still he continually bends his right leg.
Then there are the shoulders. And the spine. Oh man…

Not good!
Still, not a deal breaker.

DaveyB - 01 April 2014 05:24 PM

Now I admit I haven’t played Kentucky Roue Zero, I did look desperately for it in the “Best Animation” category of the 2013 Aggies…yet funnily enough didn’t spot it. I do know & like “Papers Please” but wouldn’t exactly say animation was its crowning glory either. From what I know re making computer games (admittedly I’m certainly no expert), good animation is extremely expensive. And what Jane Jensen wanted (maybe unrealistically) for Moebius was cinema-style camera shots with various angles, close-ups etc etc. As I said, quote me a game with far better animation than Moebius at a similar budget. As it is, with Kentucky Route Zero & Papers Please, you’re not comparing apples with pears, rather apples with bricks.

Well actually my main complaint is the character model and the fact that their proportion seems wrong somehow (the torso and shoulder). And I’d say games from Pendulo like Runaway or the Next Big Thing have better character models (in term of proportions) and more realistic animation. I don’t know what the budget was for those games but I don’t think that Pendulo is a company working with very big budgets.

I even actually liked the character models and animations from the novelist better since while the character models lacked details, I didn’t notice anything wrong with them…

It’s maybe only me but the character model (specifically the shoulder and torso proportions) and animation in Moebius somehow fall into some kind of uncanny valley that make me notice it.  It really just looks unnatural as highlighted by Ozzie’s screenshot

Strangely with Cognition, there’s the same issue with animation but the character model of Erica Reed doesn’t have as many issues with proportions as Malachi’s character model and so it bothers me a lot less.

Graphics and animation aren’t deal breakers for me either, I’m not expecting latest shader tricks or blockbuster animation. It’s fine if the technical side of the game doesn’t really enrich it (just carries it), but when issues with these things become noticeable and distracting, that’s a problem that gets in the way of the experience. And I’m with giom here, as that ^ is noticeable and distracting to me. Guess I’ll just squint.
Not a major deal, but a shame this particular game has to be marred by it.

I personally don’t have any big issues with the character models. Sure, they’re not perfect, but the slender look is clearly “by design” IMO, and is used as a method to give the game a bit of a 60s vibe, also seen in some comics from that era.

Jannik - 01 April 2014 09:34 PM

I personally don’t have any big issues with the character models. Sure, they’re not perfect, but the slender look is clearly “by design” IMO, and is used as a method to give the game a bit of a 60s vibe, also seen in some comics from that era.

This.

I completely agree about the movement issues because those actually hamper the pace of gameplay, but the design of the characters really doesn’t bother me.  I SEE the proportion issues people are talking about—they’re definitely there—but to me the aesthetic feels consistent and willful, and that’s all that matters in my book.

Yeah, getting Malachi to walk somewhere is a pain in the ass. And I would like to see him walk, so the instant teleportation option isn’t what I’m looking for. Also, if I double-click, the game freezes for a short moment before Malachi beams to his designated location. Also also, his shoes tend to sink halfway into the ground, like in the screenshot posted above. It’s a bit of a distracting clipping issue.

This game has still a lot of issues remaining. I hope at least some of them will be fixed.

Edit: Malachi creeps me out to no end. His unnatural, stiff, zombie-like shamble, his unhealthy posture, his weird body proportions,...it’s distracting. But the weird thing is that all the other characters are modelled fine, and they animate better as well.

Edit edit: Okay, I have to revise my last statement. Some of the other characters aren’t animated in a less creepy fashion. Signora Felone…OMG. No other game ever gave me such unintentional creeps before.