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What do you think about games with ambiguous stories/endings?

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Last year, I played three very different adventure games that I enjoyed immensely for their gameplay/puzzles/art/music/style, but I was left disappointed with their story. These games are Kathy Rain, The Witness and Garagoa.

Kathy Rain has a great setting, very lovable cast of characters and an intriguing story that just turns into one big confusion at the end. I felt disappointed that the ending was so obscure and confusing.

The Witness has probably some of the best puzzles in an adventure game, and as a puzzle game, it is brilliant in its micro/macro open world puzzle approach. But I read that there is a story to be had there, and it completely flew over my head.

Garagoa is one of those games that is oozing with style, with gorgeous graphics and very unique gameplay, but I understood nothing of the narrative it was trying to tell me.

So, looking back, I think I would have enjoyed those games even more if they followed a “normal” method of story telling that isn’t all obscure and up for interpretation. I notice this trend of story telling more in recent games than in the classics like Grim Fandango, The Longest Journey or Gabriel Knight where you knew exactly what was happening in the game, without the need to scour the internet for people’s crazy interpretations.

What do you guys think about that? Does it bother you when you don’t “Get” the story or is it ok?

     
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How do you feel about Kentucky Route Zero?

     
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I loved Gorogoa, but yeah, no freaking idea what was going on. As for The Witness, loved it as well. The only story I got out of it though was that it was the developers dream. We see him wake up an go out side and in which he starts noticing circles and connecting lines. Just like the environment puzzles we discover throughout the game.

I guess it just really depends on the type of game whether or not the story or lack there of and endings bother me.

     

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badlemon - 15 February 2018 08:00 PM

How do you feel about Kentucky Route Zero?

Haven’t played it yet. Is it the same thing?

     
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Sir Beardalot - 15 February 2018 09:33 PM

I loved Gorogoa, but yeah, no freaking idea what was going on. As for The Witness, loved it as well. The only story I got out of it though was that it was the developers dream. We see him wake up an go out side and in which he starts noticing circles and connecting lines. Just like the environment puzzles we discover throughout the game.

I’m not sure there was a real story in the sense of a plot, but it’s clear your progression through the game is a kind of allegory of life. You start off in a long birth-canal like tunnel, proceed through puzzles of increasing difficulty discovering more things on various levels the deeper you look, and end your journey in a giant crystalline skull. Is there more to it? The world throws a bunch of ideas at you. Just as in life, we can ask “what is this about?” all we like, but in the end maybe “a dream” is the best answer available, which are also the last words of the game. But in the end it doesn’t really matter because the gameplay is so satisfying.

     
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SoccerDude - 15 February 2018 04:10 PM

I notice this trend of story telling more in recent games than in the classics like Grim Fandango, The Longest Journey or Gabriel Knight where you knew exactly what was happening in the game, without the need to scour the internet for people’s crazy interpretations.

It shows that games and adventure games have matured as a medium and it is possible to have narratives which leave room for interpretation. Personally I think it’s a good thing and more games should go that route in their story-telling.

     
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SoccerDude - 15 February 2018 10:03 PM
badlemon - 15 February 2018 08:00 PM

How do you feel about Kentucky Route Zero?

Haven’t played it yet. Is it the same thing?

Eerie atmosphere and abstract plot? Yes. Same thing? No.

So if you are expecting a straight forward linear plot following the classic rules of storytelling it won’t be your type of game. At the same time, it’s really beautifully written and it is a unique experience just to soak in the atmosphere. Not a storiless game for sure.

As far as untraditional (which in my book is not the same as ambiguous) storytelling goes, I think it’s a matter of personal taste. Same goes for books and movies. It’s like loving or hating David Lynch.

For me every piece of art that has a well-thought idea behind them tells us a story of some kind. Just like Gorogoa. Not all of it is perfectly revealed. But everything in the game feels right in its place and is definitely put there on purpose.

My general point of view is that not all of these games/movies/books are ambiguous. Some tell us one story on the surface and another one on a deeper level. Following that kind of a story requires more focus and attention to details. And some people love that. Unravelling the plot becomes a puzzle itself. Even straight forward games
like Firewatch has such story elements that makes you constantly thinking of what’s happening between the lines of the usual plot.

I also like games where the deeper plot is a matter of personal choice and if players don’t want to follow it they can still enjoy the game. Like the case with Fez. The surface story is basically a white cute creature collecting yellow cubes in order to save the world. As neat as it can get. But bellow the surface it’s a mindblowing universe. As long as you want to dive in it.

     
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SoccerDude, I think you’re conflating two different things a little Smile Very ambiguous stories overall (a la Gorogoa and the Witness) and games with ambiguous endings that are great overall and leave a lot of room for speculation and interpretation (e.g. Fran Bow).

I’m personally very into the latter, though it isn’t easy to pull off. A combination of the two (cut and dry, but with room left for interpretation) would maybe be ideal, especially for deeper narratives, but, again, not easy to pull off. I love it when a game (or movie, or book, for that matter) makes me stop and think about its ending, look at events retrospectively, and dive into that second layer of understanding the plot. I agree some games are ambiguous for the sake of being ambiguous, with nothing to be discovered if you dig deeper.

Imagine David Lynch making an adventure game. Just imagine. Aaaah! Grin

     
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Maybe it is my engineering background that seeks a definite answer (0’s and 1’s), but I tend to like closure in anything I partake in. When things are all up in the air when I am done with something, I feel unsatisfied and frankly frustrated. Not sure if anyone else feels like that, or it is just me.

As far as the medium being more mature because it allows for these types of games, maturity in story telling has nothing to do with ambiguity or leaving things up to interpretation. One of my favorite movies of all time, The Wizard of Oz, is as straightforward as they come, but it is executed to perfection.

I guess my point in making this thread was that I tend to see this trend more in adventure games than in movies, maybe because I am more intimate with adventure games than I am with movies, or maybe because it is true and adventure game developers are just into that.

     
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SoccerDude - 16 February 2018 01:05 PM

As far as the medium being more mature because it allows for these types of games, maturity in story telling has nothing to do with ambiguity or leaving things up to interpretation.

It has everything to do with everything. In order to tell more complicated stories, you need to have A) a medium which technically allows it, and B) history and conventions of the said medium which you can follow or shake up and challenge.

There is a reason why Lumière brothers didn’t show anything too complicated. The technology didn’t allow it, and on the other hand, they didn’t know that you could do cross cuts and stuff to advance several separate events in the same film.

The traditional story-telling (see Aristotle etc.) has a structure that follows a story arc from the beginning to the middle and to the end. Literature and movies have long ago challenged this. Video games is so young medium, that even 99% of adventure games follow this structure.

Some games try to challenge this to some extent, like Max Payne to name one, which actually shows (part of) the ending first, and then how to get there. Max Payne also tried to successfully blend action movies and comics and present them as a video game, so that game really shook things up, even if there was absolutely no ambiguity in the conclusion of the story arc otherwise.

 

SoccerDude - 16 February 2018 01:05 PM

One of my favorite movies of all time, The Wizard of Oz, is as straightforward as they come, but it is executed to perfection.

OK, guess that’s nice, but I don’t know how that relates to anything here. Do you mean its technical perfection, or just that you like the story?

 

SoccerDude - 16 February 2018 01:05 PM

I guess my point in making this thread was that I tend to see this trend more in adventure games than in movies, maybe because I am more intimate with adventure games than I am with movies, or maybe because it is true and adventure game developers are just into that.

...or maybe you are just watching wrong movies.

One of the best movies of all times, 2001: A Space Odyssey, has an ending that is totally up to anyone’s interpretation. Reading A.C. Clarke’s novel might make it a bit more easier, although it still doesn’t explain the things we see on the screen.

If you want to watch a movie that basically has a very traditional story arc, but where the execution is so unusual that it’s hard to understand when seeing it the first time, I recommend watching Paprika (Japanese anime). Quite possibly the best animation ever, and the whole thing is just so beautiful visually.

 

     
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i think ambagious stories simply mean the writer either the developer couldn’t or failed to show your their vision underlined as they thought they can, as they see it or understands it themselves.

but ambagious ending which is very rare an unique craft i do not see anyone capable to achieve. that why movies like angel heart, blade runner, inceptions stories/movies will always remain the fav to people who are looking deep in stories.

ending, when the readers or watchers understand it thru their own imgination.. or like unusual suspects when it to take all you have watched into the dump and leaving you wondering what was true (if there was anything true) of all you what you have been watching, it is too ambagious but still leave you wanting more . many times i finshed a movie and started it again because its story was likely ambagious and at near the end its all started* to make sense and i need to rewatch to catch what i missed, one of the most ambagious and strangest movies i watched two times in a row and watched the next day when i woke up was Polanski’s 9th Gate Laughing, so i am in for anything ambagious as long as it crafted fine. .... my 2 cents

     
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Agree with Sdude, also add Firewatch, Inside, Virginia, Rapture etc
Seems like trend, sometimes come of pretentious
Other times way too obscure just for the sake of it(virginia for me in this case)
I know people who were pissed at Firewatch’s ending

Sometimes people need resolution

     
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Gotta love a thread where posters can simultaneously praise David Lynch and bash Virginia…  Tongue

nomadsoul - 16 February 2018 06:45 PM

Sometimes people need resolution

And sometimes they don’t.

     
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Oscar - 16 February 2018 07:43 PM

Gotta love a thread where posters can simultaneously praise David Lynch and bash Virginia

Because one is bad imitation and other one is original?

 

     
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GateKeeper - 16 February 2018 02:14 PM

It has everything to do with everything. In order to tell more complicated stories, you need to have A) a medium which technically allows it, and B) history and conventions of the said medium which you can follow or shake up and challenge.

 

Why does the story need to be ambiguous to be complicated or mature? Can’t you have a complicated and mature story that follows the traditional story paradigm?
It’s like saying art in Michelangelo’s days was not mature until Dali or Picasso came along.

And going back to stories, have you really delivered a “mature” story to me, if I have no idea what you are trying to tell me?

GateKeeper - 16 February 2018 02:14 PM

Some games try to challenge this to some extent, like Max Payne to name one, which actually shows (part of) the ending first, and then how to get there. Max Payne also tried to successfully blend action movies and comics and present them as a video game, so that game really shook things up, even if there was absolutely no ambiguity in the conclusion of the story arc otherwise.

My point was about games that are ambiguous and you have no idea what the story is about. Max Payne is a horrible example because you get closure and you know exactly what happened when all is said and done.

GateKeeper - 16 February 2018 02:14 PM

OK, guess that’s nice, but I don’t know how that relates to anything here. Do you mean its technical perfection, or just that you like the story?

It is an example of how even the most traditional of stories, even one you have heard as a kid, can be a masterpiece in a new medium if delivered perfectly. And it is an example how films were mature back in the black and white days even when they told very traditional stories.

GateKeeper - 16 February 2018 02:14 PM

One of the best movies of all times, 2001: A Space Odyssey…

I hated it. Fell asleep while watching it.

GateKeeper - 16 February 2018 02:14 PM

If you want to watch a movie that basically has a very traditional story arc, but where the execution is so unusual that it’s hard to understand when seeing it the first time, I recommend watching Paprika (Japanese anime). Quite possibly the best animation ever, and the whole thing is just so beautiful visually.

I actually did not like Paprika at all either. Are you seeing a trend here in our difference in tastes? To me, the master of anime is Miyazaki and studio Ghibli who follow a very traditional way of story telling.

     
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I’ve just played Football Game & I think that fits perfectly into the category of what’s going on? A very engaging game (albeit short) - the journey was excellent & there were probably some hints that I tried to make sense of but I still didn’t completely get so found the end a little baffling - in that particular game I did need just a tad more to be 100% satisfied!  Smile

In real life stories there are many enigmas that are left open one of the most famous being the identity of Jack the Ripper. But, in a fictional story it can be very unsatisfying not to have that closure of whom unless there are a number of possibilities & you as the player are left to wonder based on the evidence you have with a number of choices. That can lead to a very good debate I think?

Games like Kathy Rain & Fran Bow never spelt anything out to you as far as what was going on - whether you get long with that or not I think is to do with your own mindset & sometimes the (fan) theories presented won’t fit (for you) but may work for someone else!

I don’t mind a game that ends ambiguously as long as the ending gives me food for thought in context of the story thereto & is not a cliffhanger!

     

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