Adventure Gamers - Forums

Wow, demo is really lenghty, took me about an hour to finish it. Probably because I had to try every interaction and “collect” all death screens.

Puzzles were not too hard, despite vast range of clickable items. You’ve got nice little reminder of main goal in upper right side of the screen. I’m looking forward to more puzzles that don’t rely on inventory use like the ones when you had to distract the guard with the help of your friend and then find out which folder to search in archives.

However, I do think it’d be wise to implement hotspot button that reveals all items on screen. I was stuck couple of times because I failed to see/click on some items.

One other question, what’s the meaning behind game’s title? Okay, “A BIG cynical adventure” is pretty forward, but what about “Demetrios”? There’s no hint as what should that be in the demo.

Great, a feedback!

Wow, demo is really lenghty, took me about an hour to finish it. Probably because I had to try every interaction and “collect” all death screens. Grin

As I’ve said earlier, there’s the whole Chapter 1 here, so it’s about 1/6th of the game. Maybe it’s a little too much to give for a demo, but I didn’t have the heart to put a time limit or cut parts…

I’ll add achievements to the game, collecting all death screens will probably be one :p

Time is recorded on the save, would you tell me how much time it took you exactly?

Puzzles were not too hard, despite vast range of clickable items. You’ve got nice little reminder of main goal in upper right side of the screen. I’m looking forward to more puzzles that don’t rely on inventory use like

I think the game has varied types of puzzles, as you progress through it. But, you’ll see

However, I do think it’d be wise to implement hotspot button that reveals all items on screen. I was stuck couple of times because I failed to see/click on some items.

I can do that, although I felt not really necessary because you get a clear idea of the hotspot when hovering with the mouse. But if others feel the same way, I’ll add that.

Did you notice the cookies, too? They’re well hidden on the screens, and getting some will give you clues of what to do in case you’re stuck.

One other question, what’s the meaning behind game’s title? Okay, “A BIG cynical adventure” is pretty forward, but what about “Demetrios”? There’s no hint as what should that be in the demo.

That’s something for the later chapters. But it’s linked to that famous statue, which is on the game logo

You didn’t really say how much you liked it? (I’m guessing you did if you finished the demo?)

COWCAT - 30 May 2015 05:24 PM

As I’ve said earlier, there’s the whole Chapter 1 here, so it’s about 1/6th of the game. Maybe it’s a little too much to give for a demo, but I didn’t have the heart to put a time limit or cut parts…

I have no problems with that, I’m just surprised.

COWCAT - 30 May 2015 05:24 PM

Time is recorded on the save, would you tell me how much time it took you exactly?

1:33, 13% - Wow, longer than I thought!

COWCAT - 30 May 2015 05:24 PM

I can do that, although I felt not really necessary because you get a clear idea of the hotspot when hovering with the mouse. But if others feel the same way, I’ll add that.

Personally, I think that’s something average AG players wouldn’t mind, but it’s necessary if you’re trying to appeal to broader market.

In the demo, I missed stuff like can of beans and string from trash bag. I’m not sure that less patient players would revisit screens like I did. Yeah, I know that can of beans and string have no purpose in Chapter 1, but still…

Every person loses focus once in a while and hotspot bar is a great way of checking out if you unintentionally missed stuff laying in front of your eyes or just having trouble with the puzzle itself. Of course, some people abuse it to the point where exploring screens loses its charm, but, as they say, it’s better to be safe than sorry.

COWCAT - 30 May 2015 05:24 PM

Did you notice the cookies, too? They’re well hidden on the screens, and getting some will give you clues of what to do in case you’re stuck.

Yes, I collected three of those.

COWCAT - 30 May 2015 05:24 PM

You didn’t really say how much you liked it? (I’m guessing you did if you finished the demo?)

I’d say I’d given it 7/10 based on the demo. If it had hotspot bar, it’d be 8/10 for me. Don’t get me wrong. 7s and 8s are great games, in my rating system; games that I would recommend to anyone, especially genre lovers. 9’s and 10’s are reserved for games that are great but also drive innovation within the genre. Here, it seems you just to want to make a classic p’n'c AG, which is totally fine but I don’t think it will turn the genre upside down (in terms of ubiquitous puzzle design, that is). Perfect classic p’n'c (like Technobabylon) could earn 8/10 max in my rating system.

Anyhow, here’s a list of likes and dislikes in the demo:

Pros:
+ Good, logical puzzle design
+ Clear, always displayed goals
+ Varied types of puzzles
+ Clear, intuitive interface
+ Hint system a la Professor Layton (you have to earn those hints!)
+ Music and art are incredible since this is not your forte (you wrote you’re a programmer) and you’re doing them all alone

Cons:
- No hotspot bar, lack of which can detriment advancement through the story
- Bottom left corner that opens up inventory can clash with other interactive objects or paths. For example, I want to click at an object near bottom left corner, but the game opens up inventory instead.

1:33, 13% - Wow, longer than I thought!

Good! That was my estimate.

Personally, I think that’s something average AG players wouldn’t mind, but it’s necessary if you’re trying to appeal to broader market.

Every person loses focus once in a while and hotspot bar is a great way of checking out if you unintentionally missed stuff laying in front of your eyes or just having trouble with the puzzle itself. Of course, some people abuse it to the point where exploring screens loses its charm, but, as they say, it’s better to be safe than sorry.

Yes, I understand your point You can rest assured I’ll integrate this! (I just have to figure out how to display it correctly, considering the large number of interactions on some screens)

Yes, I collected three of those.

There are three on each screen :p
Maybe they’re a bit TOO much hidden, maybe I should make them larger?

I’d say I’d given it 7/10 based on the demo. If it had hotspot bar, it’d be 8/10 for me. Don’t get me wrong. 7s and 8s are great games, in my rating system; games that I would recommend to anyone, especially genre lovers. 9’s and 10’s are reserved for games that are great but also drive innovation within the genre. Here, it seems you just to want to make a classic p’n’c AG, which is totally fine but I don’t think it will turn the genre upside down (in terms of ubiquitous puzzle design, that is). Perfect classic p’n’c (like Technobabylon) could earn 8/10 max in my rating system.

Wow! Thank you so much!

Yeah, I’ll talk more about this, but I’ve first made this game when I was 15 years old, so I didn’t mean to be anything more than classic.

Now that I’m re-making it, I’m trying to add some ideas here and there (such as the main goal always displayed, the cookies hint system, the visible hotspots when hovering, the characters expressions…)
I’m not trying to turn the genre upside down… for now

Just a note : there are two musics I haven’t done myself, but come from a royalty-free site. (which are not free, they cost $40 for a basic licence)
But I was in love with them, so I just had to use them

Also, I’ll make more musics, each character will have their own, and there will be more background musics overall (because I fear they might get annoying by looping too much)

- No hotspot bar, lack of which can detriment advancement through the story
- Bottom left corner that opens up inventory can clash with other interactive objects or paths. For example, I want to click at an object near bottom left corner, but the game opens up inventory instead.

Hotspot bar will be added.

Yes, bottom left corner isn’t the best. Actually, this is only an indication to know the inventory is at the bottom - but you can open it just by going down.

I might need suggestions on that, because someone thought you could click on it.
And when I designed the first screens, I didn’t think of the interface yet, so that’s why there are some items at the bottom that get in the way. I’m trying to pay attention with that, now.

I want something very reactive, but not covering up half of the screen (I’m not a fan of games doing that)

A bit too many clickable items for my taste (almost makes it a hidden object-type game)

Well, that’s a choice I’ve made. I’ve been frustrated with games I’ve played recently that had NO interaction, something big things that appear on screen but you can’t even click on. I want to click on anything I see!

That said, maybe it’s a little too much, I’m reducing the amount of hotspots in the next screens. (also makes for a ton less dialogs to write!)

Hey Cowcat, played your demo for a while (got up to the coconut ice cream bit, ew ). The first thing that immediately stands out is that there’s an incredibly high number of hotspots. Usually having plenty of them per screen is a good thing, but in Demetrios’ case it can become daunting. Now, I guess that really depends on what kind of a player you are and whether you’re in any kind of rush or not (ideally I guess fans of AGs aren’t), I found the sheer number of them a little intimidating.

This hundreds-of-hotspots thing also leads to plenty of descriptions, and I know, given the tone of the game, you’d like a jokey line for each and every one (and humor’s usually a de gustibus thing any way), but writing so damned many can lead to some of them falling a little flat or feeling like you’re reaching. Sometimes a straight description is better than a joke that’s trying a little too hard. I hope it doesn’t sound too critical, just my 2 eurocents.

I like the colors you went for - I especially like the exterior of Bjorn’s building, it’s a little Miyazaki-ish - they set a nice, positive mood. I liked the cookies idea too - but the best idea was having the objective displayed in the upper right corner. Very cool and useful. Also, the puzzles flowed nicely and I only felt hindered by the sheer amount of clickable stuff. I usually play AGs more for the story & characters than for the puzzles, so I might like them a little on the light side, but so far they seemed well balanced.

The interface has its issues, here and there. There’s a bug where if you load a save, the top few tens of pixels from the load screen get stuck on screen for the rest of the game - not game breaking but not good either. Another thing I found a little grating: the typewriter sfx when text is being displayed. It just gets repeated so many times, I wish I could switch just it alone off. Also, just a personal opinion, no music is better than watermarked music.

It’s a little confusing to have the inventory icon in the bottom left, only to have it come up wherever you mouse on the bottom of the screen, and it did get in the way of me wanting to exit the screen more than a couple of times. Maybe having it clickable would avoid a little UI frustration.

I hope I get the time to play more this extended week-end, but Broken Age Act 2 is currently installing, you understand…

So, too many hotspots. Especially for the living room, I guess?

Mmm… I guess I should group things together. Maybe remove a few useless items here and there. (I still have a problem with displaying items that you can’t click on)

The interface has its issues, here and there. There’s a bug where if you load a save, the top few tens of pixels from the load screen get stuck on screen for the rest of the game - not game breaking but not good either. Another thing I found a little grating: the typewriter sfx when text is being displayed. It just gets repeated so many times, I wish I could switch just it alone off. Also, just a personal opinion, no music is better than watermarked music.

Watermaked music is temporary. What resolution do you play with? Is the ratio 16/9?
I’ve noticed a bug with Game Maker displaying surfaces outside when the display isn’t widescreen, I’ll have to check that.

It’s a little confusing to have the inventory icon in the bottom left, only to have it come up wherever you mouse on the bottom of the screen, and it did get in the way of me wanting to exit the screen more than a couple of times. Maybe having it clickable would avoid a little UI frustration.

The inventory/icon seems to be a problem, I’ll change it. But I’d prefer not be forced to click to open it, that’s not very reactive. Maybe I’ll bring back the first UI I made, which only displayed a text.

Would this be better?

Or would you rather have a clickable button only, but the inventory bar would stay open until you press it again?

Inventory-wise, I personally prefer the click to open version, and have it stay open until you click it again, and have no hotspots low enough to interfere with it.  As for the button’s size and placement, I feel Broken Age did that just right. As is the case with most creative work, stea…ahem, draw inspiration from the masters, there’s a reason why they are just that. Masters, that is.

Am I right in Broken Sword 1 being an influence on your game? Paris, the map, the police station, some use of color etc, they all seemed like nice nods to it.

I played it on my ancient wide but not full hd monitor, 1600something by something. Also, watch out for the clicking outside your monitor thing, lots of people have dual setups now and if you mouse and click too much to the right it minimizes to the desktop.

The too many hotspots thing is just a personal feeling, probably folks who are into hidden object games will totally dig it. I’m a Lucas kind of guy myself, so I’m very much used to that type of screen real estate/hotspots balance, so no need to take that as actual criticism, I’m convinced a lot of people will appreciate the extra content.

Inventory-wise, I personally prefer the click to open version, and have it stay open until you click it again, and have no hotspots low enough to interfere with it.  As for the button’s size and placement, I feel Broken Age did that just right. As is the case with most creative work, stea…ahem, draw inspiration from the masters, there’s a reason why they are just that. Masters, that is.

I haven’t played Broken Age, I’ve watched some gameplay videos but it’s not very clear to me how it works. Moving mouse makes icon appear? Then you have to click on it, choose an item, and it hides automatically?

As I’ve said, I’ve tried to do the most reactive possibility, and this was “no clicking required”. To be honest, I still prefer that idea. What do other adventure fans think?

Am I right in Broken Sword 1 being an influence on your game? Paris, the map, the police station, some use of color etc, they all seemed like nice nods to it.

I’ve originally started making this game (the first unreleased version) in 1999… So yeah, Broken Sword 1 & 2 were a big influence back then.

I played it on my ancient wide but not full hd monitor, 1600something by something. Also, watch out for the clicking outside your monitor thing, lots of people have dual setups now and if you mouse and click too much to the right it minimizes to the desktop.

Alright, that explains it. I’ll try and correct this.
As for clicking outside, I don’t know how much control I have over this - it might be Game Maker Studio reacting like this. But I will investigate!

The too many hotspots thing is just a personal feeling, probably folks who are into hidden object games will totally dig it. I’m a Lucas kind of guy myself, so I’m very much used to that type of screen real estate/hotspots balance, so no need to take that as actual criticism, I’m convinced a lot of people will appreciate the extra content.

Well, several persons reported the same thing, so I’ll do something about it. I think it’s a problem with the first rooms especially (the apartment). Removing a few useless interactions and grouping some may help.

For example, the memorial stone. It’s currently divided into three parts, that’s probably not necessary.

Thank you for the feedbacks

No problem. I know I said I prefer the click inventory button, but In broken Age’s case you just mouse over it, but it’s only active in the bottom left corner of the screen, so you can mouse around the rest of the bottom of the screen without the inventory interfering.

Finished the demo and overall, it’s good.

The story is building up well and the puzzles are quite good. My only complaints are what others have said about the hotspots. Having a few more then needed isn’t the problem as they can build up a background story to the protagonist and what he/she is like.

The problem I feel is one of UI. The general none interactive stuff (things you don’t use or pick up etc) show up the same way as the things that do matter and are needed leading to confusion and it becoming time consuming as you need to check everything over and over.

Broken Sword’s cursor for example would have a magnifying glass for background objects that you don’t need, but can look at if you so wish. However, the cursor would change to two gears turning if you hovered over something important that you can interact with. It also changed to a hand picking something up if an object on screen can be collected.

My only other issue is the English text. It’s not bad, but they’re some glaring grammatical errors here and there, but this is an early demo, so things are bound to change etc.

The problem I feel is one of UI. The general none interactive stuff (things you don’t use or pick up etc) show up the same way as the things that do matter and are needed leading to confusion and it becoming time consuming as you need to check everything over and over.

Broken Sword’s cursor for example would have a magnifying glass for background objects that you don’t need, but can look at if you so wish. However, the cursor would change to two gears turning if you hovered over something important that you can interact with. It also changed to a hand picking something up if an object on screen can be collected.

You know what… I think you’re right! And I feel ashamed for not even thinking about it!
By separating things we can interact with, and things we can only look, it would certainly make the amount of interactivity less daunting.
That and merging some hotspots together should make it better

My only other issue is the English text. It’s not bad, but they’re some glaring grammatical errors here and there, but this is an early demo, so things are bound to change etc.

Yes, that was to be expected, as english isn’t my native english. But I plan on hiring someone for proofreading.

How much time did it take you to finish it?

Thank you

It took about 1 hour 40.

Considering english isn’t your first language, I have to say, its good. It’s literally little things here and there that’s wrong that’s all. Like in the opening cutscene, the caller on the phone says “You are in a grave danger”. You just needed “you are in grave danger”

The conversation with Tom straight after that scene had a lot of z instead of s. Just little things like that.

Overall though, I’d say you’ve done a great job on your own and you’ve managed to capture the feel of a comic adventure well. 

Just a suggestion on the UI…

Once you’ve cut back on some of the hotspots, keep everything as though the player is examining it. Once the player has examined it once and the protagonist thinks you’ll need it, then change the cursor over that hotspot to one that indicates an action - wheather that’s to pick it up or to use it with something else.

For example, the string on the floor attached to the bin bag. The first time the player looks at it, it should just come up as though they’re looking at it (examining cursor), Bjorn will then talk about it. Then, whenever the player hovers over the string again, it should come up as an action cursor so the player knows they’ll need it at some point.