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does anyone know whats going on?..

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SoccerDude - 29 March 2018 01:11 AM
Oscar - 28 March 2018 11:10 PM

A week ago I posted my opinion on the latest Orwell game which had just come out. In that time no one has been interested enough to post a single reply.

And yet the day I posted, I went over to the Steam forum and found at least half a dozen active, multi-page threads discussing the ending, the plot as a whole, comparisons with the first game, etc.

Well there are millions of people on Steam so there are bound to be more people who have played it and who discuss it. I can’t speak for everyone, but it isn’t the lack of interest that keeps me from posting. I just haven’t played the game yet, and for someone who plays games beyond the adventure genre, there are way too many games coming out these days. Not only that, but games are way longer too. In the early 2000s, only GTA was open world, but nowadays, almost every AAA that comes out (not in the AG genre) is open world. Some of these games take a month or more to finish. Not to mention work, other entertainment media like TV and movies, and family. So you see how if you play other genres as well as AGes, it is almost impossible to stay up to date with the latest releases.

The people on Steam probably had other games to play too, and they chose to play and finish Orwell on the day of release. That is what you do when you are a fan of something. But I’m not blaming anyone here. I’d just rather not have to choose between the faceless forums of Steam and the close-knit community here. I didn’t need to 5 years ago because there was enough interesting activity here to want to stick around, but every day that is becoming less true.

     
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Do you guys think that most of you bored or burned out by discussing same games over and over or playing same games over, with decreasing numbers of posters to discuss said games (for new views) like say typical Sierra, Lucas etc ?

And new AGs like walkin sims or TTG get so much heat that its always boils down to ” hey wtf this game doing in AG section “, in process alienating more people ...

Which brings back to same old circle chatting same games , same moments…

     
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For me it’s that I haven’t really played much recently, so I don’t have a whole lot to say. I’ve only been reading the forum again a few weeks, after a couple of years. Life got too busy, and I had other things happening. I found it easier to comment on the guessing game type threads, or the what you’ve played recently.

     

The real problem with reality is the lack of background music.

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Oscar - 26 March 2018 01:53 AM

Part of the problem for me is that threads and posts are getting less interesting. If you scan the first few pages of the main forum, most of them are factual info about games or updates.

There used to be more debates, and they were fun. Someone recently posted a link to a 5 year old Simon the Sorcerer remake thread, which turned into a discussion on graphics. I have a feeling if you had a similar thread today someone would come along and say “don’t be so negative - if you don’t like it don’t play it”, shutting down the discussion.

It just feels like we don’t care as much about adventure games anymore.

It’s one thing to have healthy debate, but there seems to be quite a lot of sniping that goes with it here.  It’s probably quite scary for newcomers and just isn’t that fun to get into.

I like all the ornery curmudgeons on AG, but it took a while for me to settle and I might only have stayed because I’m so stubborn.  Naughty

     
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Oscar - 29 March 2018 03:58 AM

The people on Steam probably had other games to play too, and they chose to play and finish Orwell on the day of release. That is what you do when you are a fan of something. But I’m not blaming anyone here. I’d just rather not have to choose between the faceless forums of Steam and the close-knit community here. I didn’t need to 5 years ago because there was enough interesting activity here to want to stick around, but every day that is becoming less true.

But could it be that those same people talking about Orwell did not talk about Chuchel for example? But because there is such a huge sample of people there, 0.1% there are greater than 10% here? I’m just making up these percentages but you get my point.

I mean JRPGs that traditionally have never come to a PC before are now launching day and date on Steam with their console counterparts. The main reason for that is money, and there is such a huge userbase on Steam that every company wants to be on that platform, so more users, more discussions.

     

Ignorance + Poverty = Crime, Ignorance + Wealth = Corruption, Ignorance + Freedom = Chaos, Ignorance + Authority = Tyranny, Ignorance + Religion = Terrorism
Replace Ignorance with Knowledge:
Knowledge + Poverty = Satisfaction, Knowledge + Wealth = Civilization, Knowledge + Freedom = Creativity, Knowledge + Authority = Justice, Knowledge + Religion = Integrity

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So far only senior members have participated in this discussion. As a relatively new registered member, although I’ve been reading and lurking for years, let me give you my perspective. This is not a friendly place. There is nothing here that encourages new people to get involved in any discussion. In almost every thread, someone snipes. Some people here can’t just disagree, they get nasty. I honestly don’t have time for it. To formulate an opinion, present it in a coherent manner takes more time than it is worth. It’s not just participating in general discussion threads that is a problem. I’ve played a lot of the community playthroughs. But I would never post in the thread. I see a new community playthrough posted and if I have the game, I’ll play along. I’m finishing up Technobabylon now. To vote and/or participate in the thread has the potential to be unpleasant and stressful which certainly takes the fun out it.

I adore Advie. I belong to several other game forums and I have yet to run across anyone with the passion for adventure games, and I think probably all of life, that he has. I love to see a new thread started by Advie because I know it will be entertaining even if I don’t agree. chrissie is another person here who consistently posts reasoned and thoughtful opinions. I look forward to reading her posts whether I agree with her or not.

The fighting, sniping and unpleasantness makes me keep my distance. I read what I want and ignore the rest.

     
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I agree on all counts.

One of the problems is that we don’t seem to have a moderator. Timovieman has disappeared and someone else might have been appointed to the role but I don’t see much moderation going on, because there are several members who should have been suspended and/or banned already. Most other forums don’t tolerate bickering.

     
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Oscar - 31 March 2018 09:11 PM

because there are several members who should have been suspended and/or banned already

Still taking sniper shots and not mentioning names

Several members (makes more than one member), and thats very counter productive for a forum which is already dead as Advie once said to me, if nomadsoul you wont post it here, this will become graveyard and i totally agree with him,because if you remove Advie,nomad, wilco and sdude wats left?
Can you name some, who are more frequent , how many?
Most of the others dont even make threads of new games because they are old fashioned in a sense that anything TTG, walking sim or FMV type is a sin and mostly i create those threads and still get flak for even opening thread

Whats left, how many PnC games you can name, that will attract other members?
Why its even a debate when Jane Jensen who is praised and worshiped mentioned that her recent best AG was Walking dead , when she moved then why some of the hardcore customers of JJ are stuck in a rut?

And i remember a guy with no offense track record(Tad) left because he was lambasted for saying Shenmue is adventure

Instead of making it an echo chamber we should stop confrontations and hidden grudges like hey ban this or that without naming, be mature for once and deal with issues directly
It clearly shows that some posters are harboring grudges and dont want to name/show it, but their manifestations seep in other threads as baits or personal insults

Its far more noxious to have ill will towards others and still participate(posing) as fellow community member , thats not community by a long shot, atleast there are some posters who are damn straight and not two faced

The reason i worked out with some other members , because we were open minded to sort it out through PM, no bigotry nothing, straight confession

 

     
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There’s no grudge against anyone on my part, except a grudge that new members don’t feel the place is friendly enough for them to participate in discussions. I’m not going to name any names since I don’t believe in “good” and “bad” posters, only good and bad posts. That can be dealt with by mods, and not necessarily by banning which is only a last resort action.

     
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Oscar - 01 April 2018 03:55 AM

That can be dealt with by mods, and not necessarily by banning which is only a last resort action.

Then why did you say there are several members who should have been suspended and/or banned already.

I’m quite sure I’m one of the members you (and nomadsoul too) are talking about. Do you feel it would be better for the forum if I left? I will if people really want me to. Not a real big deal, there isn’t much left to stay for. But I’ve done it before, disappeared for three months and nothing changed in the meantime.

Besides, it’s far too easy to blame just the “bickering”. There’s much more going on in the adventure gaming scene with longlasting effects on AG and forum traffic.

     

You might want to be careful where you put your cursor, though, you don’t know where that thing’s been before.  Jen, Four Fat Chicks

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nomadsoul makes some excellent points. It is very territorial here with some people guarding the adventure game genre like it’s an endangered species. How many “Are Adventure Games Dead?” discussions have there been? The fact of the matter is that the adventure game has been promiscuous as hell and has mated with every other genre over the last twenty years. What we’re seeing is its children and grandchildren - blended genres that adventure gamers reject as unpure. That’s when a lot of the sniping starts here and pissing contests never end well for anyone.

I think most members here have a little mileage. I know I do. I’m a sweet, little old lady who started on the Lucas Arts classic games and I still love a point and click better than anything else. But a lot of people play a variety of games on a variety of devices nowadays and don’t define their gaming status by a specific genre. Do they want to hang out on a forum with a bunch of old farts who only talk about the good old days?  Another fact is that the people making games are young. They don’t buy into the set definition of what constitutes an adventure game or any other genre for that matter. They experiment like crazy. How else can you explain a game like Hellblade: Senua’s Sacrifice which has 20 tags at Steam? That peg can’t be crammed into any game genre hole.

I’m not sure why a moderator should be necessary on a forum populated by adults. I also think that the average IQ is higher here than at a lot of other forums. That’s one of the reasons I keep reading aside from the fact that I have tremendous respect for AG reviewers. This is a pretty smart bunch and some of the discussions here are brilliant. It really is just a matter of respect for others and a moderator can’t teach that.

     
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Karlok - 01 April 2018 06:33 AM
Oscar - 01 April 2018 03:55 AM

That can be dealt with by mods, and not necessarily by banning which is only a last resort action.

Then why did you say there are several members who should have been suspended and/or banned already.

I’m quite sure I’m one of the members you (and nomadsoul too) are talking about. Do you feel it would be better for the forum if I left? I will if people really want me to. Not a real big deal, there isn’t much left to stay for. But I’ve done it before, disappeared for three months and nothing changed in the meantime.

Okay, you want an example? Everyone (including me) agrees that Advie is a generally good guy, but there was a stage several years ago when he was suspended for posting something antagonistic the nature of I can’t remember what. I’m not sure who else noticed but after that he was a lot better and more selective with what he posted. And even though I personally don’t get offended easily by rude and discourteous posts, Jofog has made it clear that others will and they are likely to be new members we want to contribute more.

So you can either rely on members on a forum developing a “sense of respect” for each other (which is a bit like expecting criminals in a town without police to develop respect for their victims and stop committing crimes) or you can get a mod to enforce some bare minimum of standards, like 99% of other forums do. Sometimes all it needs is someone to step in and say “cut it out” when two members are fighting, as commonly happens here.

I don’t want anyone gone or banned. I want this place thriving like it was in the past.

Karlok - 01 April 2018 06:33 AM

Besides, it’s far too easy to blame just the “bickering”. There’s much more going on in the adventure gaming scene with longlasting effects on AG and forum traffic.

Yes there is, but we’ve just had someone in this thread tell us directly why they don’t post more. I see that as an opportunity to improve things, don’t you?

     
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Jofog - 01 April 2018 08:41 AM

nomadsoul makes some excellent points. It is very territorial here with some people guarding the adventure game genre like it’s an endangered species. How many “Are Adventure Games Dead?” discussions have there been? The fact of the matter is that the adventure game has been promiscuous as hell and has mated with every other genre over the last twenty years. What we’re seeing is its children and grandchildren - blended genres that adventure gamers reject as unpure. That’s when a lot of the sniping starts here and pissing contests never end well for anyone.

Pardon me but I think that’s a little harsh. I’m a new-ish member and I don’t actually see that much rejecting going on here. So far I have seen hybrid shooter/adventure games welcomed, threads about action-adventure recommendations and discussions on a diverse range of games like walking sims or TTG or Dreamfall Chapters getting a lot of praise. There is a very active subforum for non-adventure games. If there are ‘purist’ members who are out to crucify any elements of games that are not pure adventure, I have not seen much of them.

     
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Jofog - 01 April 2018 08:41 AM

I also think that the average IQ is higher here than at a lot of other forums

IQ ain’t issue here indeed, EQ(emotional quotient) is
But that cannot be sorted out if conflict is preferable to engaging in conversations first
Thats why i am trying to sort out, it will go on and on
And hey we(old members) have 1000 of posts , any new member can look and get the negative impressions from old vets fighting among each other

Thanks for your feedback, almost everything you said i agree with Smile

Karlok - 01 April 2018 06:33 AM

I’m quite sure I’m one of the members you (and nomadsoul too) are talking about

I had the impression Oscar’s target was me and you, because i dont remember having him many heated debates with anyone else

 

     
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The forum today isn’t the same as it was five years ago, which wasn’t the same as it was ten years ago, which wasn’t the same as it was fifteen years ago. The only constant in on online community is change over time.

Is it less active now than before? Probably. With so much social media, so many ways to share and consume news, niche communities like this are bound to suffer a bit. But really, it’s not as much as it may appear to old-timers watching it happen.

The lifeblood of any community like this are not really the mainstays, but the NEW people who join and become active. And that can come in waves. Maybe this is a trend, maybe it’s just a dip, and maybe it’s not much of anything.

But the uncomfortable truth is that this often isn’t a very friendly forum community. It never has been. That’s made for some lively discussions over the years, which is a good thing, but it comes with consequences. Jofog has only confirmed what is plainly obvious to us, which is that this isn’t a welcoming place to newcomers or outsiders.

I know for a fact that lots of developers who used to post here—always a good sign of community engagement when the creators themselves are taking part—have essentially been driven away by the constant, toxic negativity. And you can be sure that applies just as much to regular folk who see the sniping and obnoxious behaviour and decide they have better things to do with their time. Hell, that’s basically why I don’t bother posting much anymore.

As everyone participating in this thread knows, we try to allow self-moderation as much as possible. We can and do police the worst offenders, but frankly, it’s impossible to enforce friendliness. People either choose to treat each other respectfully or not, and too often the answer seems to be “not” here. I’ve never understood it, never WILL understand it, but if people would rather cause conflict than cooperation, that’s ultimately what we’re going to get.

The mods here do what they can, but they’re part-time volunteers with busy lives, so it’s not like they can monitor things 24/7.

And let’s be clear: everyone who misbehaves KNOWS they’re misbehaving. They’ve all been warned, even disciplined in some cases. And some persist anyway. They don’t need us to gently scold them yet again.

(I don’t simply mean the people with outright feuds, either. There are LOTS of ways to make one’s forum posts hostile and destructive rather than insightful and constructive, and lots of people who don’t seem to know the difference, or choose to ignore it.)

As always, I should clarify for those who think in black-and-white terms that this does NOT mean everyone should be sweetly agreeable all the time! The best conversations are those where people with different perspectives share their viewpoints and everyone benefits from new ideas. But the internet seems to be increasingly cultivating a culture of communication as if it’s competition, and only the loudest, nastiest, and most persistent voice “wins”. So long as that’s part of the prevailing attitude here, there’s going to be a problem.

And yes, it’s also true that there’s very much an “old school” vibe around here. AG started out as a LucasArts fan site, and in many ways the forum has never grown past that. Except I don’t necessarily mean that in terms of “only games like the Golden Era classics”, but rather, there often isn’t much interest in anything but the the shiniest and brightest of games the genre has to offer. And since the genre doesn’t HAVE many of those anymore, the conversation dries up.

Of course I don’t blame anyone for being most interested in the biggest productions—so am I!—but there’s literally never been a more prolific time for new adventure games, and many people here don’t seem to care. If a game’s too short or too retro or too experimental or too “indie”, they tend not to even get a sniff. These forums would be so much more alive if people took a chance on new and weird and interesting games like The Mind of Marlo and Rumu, or games with something to say like Indygo and Little Kite and such.

Now, if you’re not interested, you’re not interested. It’s certainly not anyone’s “job” to stimulate community discussion (including the mods’). I offer this merely as an observation in case anyone’s interested in being part of the solution, not just grousing about the problem. If the genre’s most hardcore fans don’t really care about the games being made, then we’ll just keep arguing Sierra vs. LucasArts and what the definition of adventure is, and why Telltale sucks, and all the other tired arguments that those of us still here are bored of, and those new to the scene aren’t interested in anymore.

Also, this is off-topic a bit, but just to clarify something: the forum situation has practically nothing to do with the main site. AG attracts over 100,000 unique visitors every month, so you can do the math on how many of those populate the forums. (Answer: not very many.)

If people think that the site’s financial challenges reflect a loss of traffic, that’s simply not true. It reflects a loss of Adventure Shop affiliate income that has simply never been replaced. The bigger AG gets, the more time-consuming and expensive it is to administrate. And online ads are next-to-useless at generating revenue.

So yes, AG was sold, and yes, we’ve started a crowdfunding platform. But that’s simply the cost of business in keeping a site like this running (and growing) rather than a sign of things getting worse. They aren’t, regardless of how lively the forum is.

     

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