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The ongoing gay marriage debate - have your say, mind your manners

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Lambonius - 11 June 2013 11:07 PM

Let’s be clear:  When people say “conventional marriage,” what they really mean is the 1950s Leave it to Beaver version of Christian marriage.

Please stop pretending you’re “The Mentalist”.......that you have the ability to delve into people’s minds and explain “what they really mean” to the rest of us. 

You can make extremely valid arguments without throwing your own prejudices into the mix.

I always feel compelled to correct your overblown comments.

 

     
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The question I’ve seen posed numerous times in debates of this nature and I have yet to see answered coherently is this:
If I, a gay guy, marry another gay guy, in what way does that tangibly affect the marriage of any heterosexual couple?  I mean, it’s not as if any municipality that I’m aware of limits the number of marriage licenses that can be issued in a given time period so I wouldn’t be taking anyone else’s place in the marriage license queue.

     

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Bonsai - 12 June 2013 12:15 AM

I always feel compelled to correct your overblown comments.

What other types of things do you always feel compelled to do?  Smile

     
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Sage - 12 June 2013 12:52 AM

The question I’ve seen posed numerous times in debates of this nature and I have yet to see answered coherently is this:
If I, a gay guy, marry another gay guy, in what way does that tangibly affect the marriage of any heterosexual couple?  I mean, it’s not as if any municipality that I’m aware of limits the number of marriage licenses that can be issued in a given time period so I wouldn’t be taking anyone else’s place in the marriage license queue.

The answer of course is that it does not directly affect those heterosexual marriages but merely changes the definition of marriage itself from one guy one gal to whatever else.

In the UK, civil partnerships give homosexuals the same legal rights as marriage gives to heterosexuals (although I am aware that isn’t true everywhere else in the world) so I don’t really get why this is such a big “thing” in the UK.

     

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Well, this discussion got off to an ugly start, but I see it’s settled down into a proper discussion now, so I guess I’ll post after all.

I’m all for Marriage Equality. This is the 21st Century, and I’m tired of being dragged into the 19th by increasingly alarmist attitudes about something that just isn’t their business. Lesbians and Gays want the same rights and protections enjoyed by straight married couples, and are willing to take their chances on marriage to get them. Anyone who tries to tell me there is something innately sacred about a bond between a man and a woman immediately loses my interest, because I don’t believe in the all-mighty sky father paradigm any more. But if I still did, I’d refuse to believe that an all-knowing, all-seeing, all-powerful being could possibly be so petty and deranged as to rig the game to damn so many perfectly innocent people.

     

Lee Edward McIlmoyle,
Probably NOT the kind of guy you think he is.

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Well put, Lee in Limbo

     
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Lambonius - 12 June 2013 01:36 AM
Bonsai - 12 June 2013 12:15 AM

I always feel compelled to correct your overblown comments.

What other types of things do you always feel compelled to do?  Smile

Well I know it’s legal in all 50 States Wink

 

     
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Lee in Limbo - 12 June 2013 06:45 AM

Well, this discussion got off to an ugly start, but I see it’s settled down into a proper discussion now, so I guess I’ll post after all.

I’m all for Marriage Equality. This is the 21st Century, and I’m tired of being dragged into the 19th by increasingly alarmist attitudes about something that just isn’t their business. Lesbians and Gays want the same rights and protections enjoyed by straight married couples, and are willing to take their chances on marriage to get them. Anyone who tries to tell me there is something innately sacred about a bond between a man and a woman immediately loses my interest, because I don’t believe in the all-mighty sky father paradigm any more. But if I still did, I’d refuse to believe that an all-knowing, all-seeing, all-powerful being could possibly be so petty and deranged as to rig the game to damn so many perfectly innocent people.

Totally agree with you Lee!

     

Lazy Bee
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Jackal - 07 June 2013 09:58 PM

... “homophobes”. I just object to the creation of that particular word in the first place. By any reasonable etymology, it should really mean “fear of man”, which makes no sense at all….

Actually the “homo” part in both homophobes and homosexual refers to “homogeneous”, just as heterosexual refers to “heterogeneous”, and not to “Homo Sapiens”

So if anything it really means “fear of things that is uniform”, which i find somewhat ironic Smile

 

     

You have to play the game, to find out why you are playing the game! - eXistenZ

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Iznogood - 12 June 2013 11:55 AM
Jackal - 07 June 2013 09:58 PM

... “homophobes”. I just object to the creation of that particular word in the first place. By any reasonable etymology, it should really mean “fear of man”, which makes no sense at all….

Actually the “homo” part in both homophobes and homosexual refers to “homogeneous”, just as heterosexual refers to “heterogeneous”, and not to “Homo Sapiens”

So if anything it really means “fear of things that is uniform”, which i find somewhat ironic Smile

 

Actually, it goes further than that—they simply refer to the Greek words homos and heteros, meaning “same” and “different.”  Combined with a version of the Greek word genos, meaning “race,” and you get the terms “homogeneous” and “heterogeneous,” meaning “of the same race” or “of different races.”  If you’re going to get pedantic about etymology, at least go all the way to the root.  Wink

But you’re right about what the meaning of “homophobe” should be, if you actually break it down as a word construction.  “Fear of things that are the same.”

     
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To complicate matters further, Jack’s etymology is also correct, as there are actually two different words at play here: homophobia (fear of homosexuals) and homophobia (fear of mankind, anthropophobia).

Homophobia and homophobia are homophones and homographs.  Smile

     
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Well, whatever the language, the point was that on a list with the likes of claustrophobia, agoraphobia, and ophidiophobia (snakes), homophobia kind of sticks out like a sore thumb for its rather flimsy definition. I’ve never seen anyone become paralyzed or suffer panic attacks merely at the sight of a gay person.  Maybe at a whole gay pride parade, sure, but never just a single homosexual. Tongue

     

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Here is a more interesting news these days. A recent judgment in Brazil is once again bringing the political theater of concept of marriage to the forefront - and conservatives in the South American nation are up in arms. BBC News reports that a notary in Sao Paulo has recognized a civil union between three individuals - two ladies and one male. According to Public Notary Claudia do Nascimento Domingues, the trio has lived together long enough to justify family rights, and Brazilian regulation has nothing that forbids such an arrangement.

     
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That article’s nearly a year old, so not really all that recent.

Polygamy came up in a previous thread incarnation. I actually don’t have a problem with that either. In fact, I’ll go so far as to say that, as repulsive as I find the idea personally, I would even support incestuous marriages. Consenting adults are consenting adults, and who are we do deny them that freedom? (Yes, I know the health risks for children of such relationships, but that’s an entirely different issue.) Well, I might draw the line at parent/child marriage, because that at least raises the spectre of long-term coercion. Then again, maybe not.

Anyway, polygamy really has no place in this discussion. Whether to raise the number of people allowed in a marriage is a purely philosophical debate, since everyone is on the same level playing field. Gay marriage is about equal rights, where one group wishes to deny others the same opportunities they freely enjoy.

Incidentally, if some people are so dead-set on preserving the sanctity of marriage for the sake of family values, I wonder why they aren’t fighting to outlaw divorce instead.

     

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MOD Note: Moved here from Armikrog thread.

Terabin - 20 June 2013 03:46 PM

I am a Christian and am happy to find common ground with him on that, but his public views on gay marriage (which I find to be prejudiced and unbiblical)

This is something I don’t get. I have no idea how anybody could possibly read the Bible and NOT come away with the idea that it clearly defines marriage as between a man and a woman. I can get disagreeing with that, or saying that somehow that clear teaching is only something that was intended to be relevant to the culture of the day, but to call such a view “unbiblical” seems very, very odd to me.

EDIT: Though I guess I’m going off on a tangent here. Moderators, feel free to delete this post if you wish. I’ll let you make that call, as I have long had a policy of not deleting my own posts or editing what I posted in ways other than grammatical or spelling related (though I will sometimes ADD things, like now). The idea is that this forces me to think before I post. Well, it works sometimes. Wink

     

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