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What themes would you like to see more of in adventure games?

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millenia - 12 May 2021 04:33 PM

While I get what you’re saying, I still think this “tokenism” isn’t really such an issue people make it out to be.

But neither is lack of diversity, let’s be honest. There are diverse characters out there, plenty actually. The call is for MORE diversity, which is statistically unrealistic and is, to my opinion, a strange request which really amounts to call for more characters with specific physical qualities.

Usually it is the racists, sexists etc. who will raise noise about these supposed tokens or “virtual signaling” when in truth they are just annoyed having these people represented.

I would really like an example of this. Asking sincerely.
I can raise noise about tokens and virtue signaling. I’ve been a token plenty of times. And no, I’m not annoyed at having anyone represented. I just think it’s a superficial request.

Of course I would want wonderful, deep, fleshed out games about diverse characters, but first of all, I just want games with diverse characters. They don’t have to be perfect, it’s already progress that they exist, that they are visible to people. Just representation is a remarkable thing and things can be perfected along the way.


This right here, especially the part from your quote I put in bold, is something I don’t understand. In absolute majority of cases diversity is a physical quality all of us have (skin color or sex? - EVERYONE has those) and something person had NO CONTROL over. That straight white dude you referred to a couple of times had zero agency in being born white and hetero. It’s not an achievement a person worked hard for that is worth celebrating, and it’s not something someone made a conscious choice about - like, I want to be Asian or deaf - it’s out of everyone’s control.
 
So how can people want more of something that is a physical attribute and tells me NOTHING about a character as a person, and on top of that was just “chanced” at birth? The fact that someone is, say, black or gay or blind tells me nothing whether this person is a good friend or hard worker or a jerk or a softy. Nothing.

Representation? Those are physical qualities though, so shall we stretch it further? I think there aren’t enough short men in adventures or redheads with green eyes, or women with long sexy legs or very old people. Height, hair color, eye color, legs and age are also attributes that everyone has, but wouldn’t it be a bit shallow if I’ll ask for more adventures with those green-eyed redheads? Why are those qualities that tells nothing about a character as a person coming on the forefront of being asked for in gaming? Are those the qualities people pay attention to in humans in real life? If, let’s say, you meet a person would you care if they are part of LGBTQ+ or have a particular skin color or would you care if they are nice or kind? Would you ever say I want more black friends or gay friends or mute friends? Just so you also “represent”. Or do you think it’d be quite a strange statement?

So why is it becoming a call in games? Not interesting characters, not deep or intelligent ones, or maybe unruly and wild, or heroic or villainous, but rather characters who have a certain skin color or sex or sexual preference or disability? 

This is not a slight, by the way. I sincerely don’t understand it.
Unless you are (proverbial YOU, of course) is the person with a diverse issue that you feel like isn’t being properly represented - I don’t get it. If you’re asking on behalf of others - why? Do you think they are incapable of speaking for themselves if they want something or need someone like you to do it for them? Or do you genuinely want more characters with specific physical qualities that doesn’t say a lick about their inner world in games?

It’s all valid criticism if one thinks some representation feels forced and it makes the game worse. One can feel the same about sex scenes, for example. I just hope that people wouldn’t be so quick to discourage trying.

I don’t think anyone is discouraging anything here. Literally no one said - “take diversity away, I wish people wouldn’t make any more diverse games”. I think everyone here is very much open to diversity in any shape or form, it is the incessant call for more of it, that I, in particular, question, because I think that forcing it brings disingenuity, and I prefer genuine product and honest creativity process.

     
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On the topic of education:

I.. do hope you get I also read books, watch documentaries, etc. Non-fiction books in particular are the biggest source of what you could call dry knowledge for me.

I also think this knowledge can contribute to empathy. People sometimes misunderstand this concept as being purely emotional: it can be, but the word understanding implies knowledge for a reason. I resist the idea that intelligence and decency go hand in hand, but being informed is never a bad thing.

I think games (and to different extends, other media) have a unique ability to convey information/experience. Education is not the term I’d use perse, but I guess you could call it that. If you play as a detective and the game tells you to do certain tasks and learn how to figure out a process of deduction, you learn something as well. Not just about those actions, but about the life and personality of the detective. I don’t see why that counts as fun, but playing as someone who is, in another way, not like you in your day to day experience, should be any different.

edit: what I meant here was not just performing detective-style actions, but doing so as this person in particular. Like Gabriel Knight being a lecherous creep in the first game. I’m not sure why people don’t register that as being forced.

I really feel like I’m talking too much.

To answer the original question of this thread: I’d like to see more games that take place underwater. In a dome, or as a creature that’s able to survive below the surface. I know there’s Freddi Fish, but is there anything geared at an older audience?

     
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Vegetable Party - 11 May 2021 03:58 PM

Wouldn’t that be an example of a character being reduced to and defined by disability? I think a lot of nuance is being left out. Dealing with being bound to a wheelchair is more than dealing with not being able to walk. It means you tend to sit when other people stand, for example. This does something to interactions. I think depicting that (subtly, not as a struggle sim) is more interesting than: this person is smart but because their body doesn’t work in a way we consider the norm, he is physically weak. Besides that, it’s also a bit of a unfair stereotype. A person in a wheelchair might be super-athletic. A person with two working legs might be a slouch.

I’m currently playing Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney Justice for All, and one of the key characters (one of the more complex characters as well) is both “super-athletic” and confined to a wheelchair, and this does prove important during the investigation (can’t say more, or I’ll spoil it). I enjoyed this case the most so far. That said, I agree with some of the opinions that I don’t want a game to educate me on how disabled people live and make their everyday lives part of gameplay. And neither do most disabled people, I assure you. They would rather expect their own lives to be turned as comfortable and fully functional as possible, not the other way around.

     

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Doom - 13 May 2021 01:48 AM

I’m currently playing Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney Justice for All, and one of the key characters (one of the more complex characters as well) is both “super-athletic” and confined to a wheelchair, and this does prove important during the investigation (can’t say more, or I’ll spoil it). I enjoyed this case the most so far. That said, I agree with some of the opinions that I don’t want a game to educate me on how disabled people live and make their everyday lives part of gameplay. And neither do most disabled people, I assure you. They would rather expect their own lives to be turned as comfortable and fully functional as possible, not the other way around.

Awesome! And I agree. I’ve seen some of my, let’s say, unconventional experiences reflected in certain media and about half the time, I stopped watching/playing.

But when it’s done right, it can be cool. Like you’ve been seen, rather than portrayed and used for some emotional effect.

     
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Baron_Blubba - 12 May 2021 04:54 PM

Hi DCast. If your name is an allusion to the Sega console, you’re welcome in my family tree any day.

It is not. It has a much more boring explanation. Smile All the hopes for family tree are lost, I suppose.

But I think a lot of people these days are forcing the issue like no one has ever forced it in the past, and while a great many of their hearts are in the right place, I think there is a lack of historical education that causes them to think they are the first to carry the torch, and they push hard and in the wrong places, and the result is counter-productive.
(Some people’s hearts are not in the right places, and they co-opt movements just to give themselves an identity and something to do, but that’s almost another story.)

I feel like there’s at least two great discussions hidden in there, and I’m not sure I can type any longer. But yes and yes.

Jdawg445 - 12 May 2021 07:24 PM

In georgia people are seperated, but more in the way of who has money and who doesnt. I like this quote from killer mike…

Isn’t the actual root of the problem, though? Lots of “racial issues” are actually masked socio-economical issues. It’s a great quote, and it kinda reminds me of the general sentiment I get from combat vets that I’m around a lot. Just replace Southerner with Marine, soldier, sailor or airman.

Luhr28 - 13 May 2021 12:52 AM

Because when you say that a game about a disabled person isn’t your idea of fun, well, others are discovering that going to Fantasy Land #28547 or Outer Space Planet X for the 100th time… is not theirs.

Fair statement. But we’re comparing overall adventure to a character here. Are they tired of going to fantasy land or do they simply want to go to fantasy land as a Native Indian person with agoraphobia because there aren’t enough of them in games? Either way, like I said, it’s great that people have different tastes, wonderful actually. But market has to always be in consideration for a developer if he wants to make anything out of it. I just think a game about disabled person with concentration on the process has to have something spectacular to sell well (not impossible). A trip to fantasy land will sell a little better just because it’s the kind of escape many people prefer on the regular. Which is not to say that those games shouldn’t innovate - they totally should.

So it’s really not about education for me, but the adventure. It’s taken some time for our genre to mature to the point where developers don’t necessarily see “adventure” as being flung to the far corners of the galaxy, exploring underground troll-filled caverns, or going ghost hunting in Cornwall, but the popularity of games like Cat Lady suggests it’s happening.

But The Cat Lady was still hell of an adventure. Violent and strange with many stories and interesting situations. Mental issues were an underlying base for everything, but the gameplay was pretty fast-paced and engaging. Quite often, only after playing through something, I’d come up with realization that it was a metaphor for something else, or that the meaning was a lot deeper.

This is my all-time top 10 game, by the way. Absolutely priceless.

Vegetable Party - 13 May 2021 01:46 AM

On the topic of education:

I.. do hope you get I also read books, watch documentaries, etc. Non-fiction books in particular are the biggest source of what you could call dry knowledge for me.

If that was me you wrote that to - I simply talked about myself. The sentiment was that I largely turn to games for escape and entertainment. I have made no statements on you reading/watching something or not. You seem like an intelligent person, so I’d assume you do, but that wasn’t an implication of anything.

I think games (and to different extends, other media) have a unique ability to convey information/experience. Education is not the term I’d use perse, but I guess you could call it that. If you play as a detective and the game tells you to do certain tasks and learn how to figure out a process of deduction, you learn something as well. Not just about those actions, but about the life and personality of the detective. I don’t see why that counts as fun, but playing as someone who is, in another way, not like you in your day to day experience, should be any different.

Because deducing a whodunnit is something I never get to do in real life, and it sounds exciting. Playing as someone who is going blind (and my vision as a player is limited) or watching for social feedback playing as person who has speech impediment doesn’t. Unlike solving a mystery, I do get to deal with other various issues on the daily basis in life, even if they aren’t those precise ones. Since I use games as means to escape and entertainment - those aren’t for me. But they maybe for others, it’s cool. To add something here - playing as an accountant or a miner also wouldn’t terribly excite me, nor playing as a marathon runner or runaway model (although, I’m sure, their day-to-day experience is much different then mine), so it isn’t really about disability - it’s about finding enough engaging stuff (which is personal) when it comes to playing.

To answer the original question of this thread: I’d like to see more games that take place underwater. In a dome, or as a creature that’s able to survive below the surface. I know there’s Freddi Fish, but is there anything geared at an older audience?

“SOMA” and “Reveal The Deep” are great, if you don’t mind horror vibes.

     
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DCast - 13 May 2021 02:43 AM

“SOMA” and “Reveal The Deep” are great, if you don’t mind horror vibes.

Checking those out. The latter is 1 euro, so I’m getting that and I’ll give it a try when I get home from work tonight!

edit: I think I have ABZÛ somewhere, I’ll dig that up. And SOMA goes on the list, I’m curious now.

     
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I highly recommend SOMA, almost a “must play” if you like philosophical themes, and also ABZÛ for sheer visual beauty.

DCast - 13 May 2021 02:43 AM

But The Cat Lady was still hell of an adventure. Violent and strange with many stories and interesting situations. Mental issues were an underlying base for everything, but the gameplay was pretty fast-paced and engaging. Quite often, only after playing through something, I’d come up with realization that it was a metaphor for something else, or that the meaning was a lot deeper.

This is my all-time top 10 game, by the way. Absolutely priceless.

This is actually the reason it doesn’t make my top 10. If they had omitted all the fantastical sequences, trips to see the “Queen” or whatever, and narrowed the scope rather than just throwing “extreme” and “disturbing” at the player in an attempt to convey depression, I could have related to Susan and the game a lot more. Every one of these devices seemed to distance her and her depression from being the commonplace experience that it is, making it something special and inaccessible to the rest of us.

 

     
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Luhr28 - 13 May 2021 03:08 AM

This is actually the reason it doesn’t make my top 10. If they had omitted all the fantastical sequences, trips to see the “Queen” or whatever, and narrowed the scope rather than just throwing “extreme” and “disturbing” at the player in an attempt to convey depression, I could have related to Susan and the game a lot more. Every one of these devices seemed to distance her and her depression from being the commonplace experience that it is, making it something special and inaccessible to the rest of us.

Those were my favorite parts Grin
I liked it precisely because everyone has their own darkness. The fact that the place is dark - is common, but how dark and in which direction does it develop - that’s very unique. That was Susan’s, and I understood. I also think that, possibly, her depression wasn’t the “commonplace experience” kind. It was a result of some severe stuff, so maybe that’s why Remi went with more extreme path? Personally, it suited me perfectly fine and I loved that expression of depression (it actually made me relate to Susan more), but I can see where you coming from too.

Honestly, everyone should play The Cat Lady at least once. If that would be result of this thread (for some reason) - that’s a great mission accomplished.

Vegetable Party - 13 May 2021 02:52 AM

Checking those out. The latter is 1 euro, so I’m getting that and I’ll give it a try when I get home from work tonight!

I hope you enjoy it. It’s an exploration-based game, with atmosphere taking the center (play with headphones if you can!) and some underwater platforming parts which really is gentle floating from one spot to another

 

 

     
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DCast - 13 May 2021 03:39 AM
Luhr28 - 13 May 2021 03:08 AM

This is actually the reason it doesn’t make my top 10. If they had omitted all the fantastical sequences, trips to see the “Queen” or whatever, and narrowed the scope rather than just throwing “extreme” and “disturbing” at the player in an attempt to convey depression, I could have related to Susan and the game a lot more. Every one of these devices seemed to distance her and her depression from being the commonplace experience that it is, making it something special and inaccessible to the rest of us.

Those were my favorite parts Grin
I liked it precisely because everyone has their own darkness. The fact that the place is dark - is common, but how dark and in which direction does it develop - that’s very unique. That was Susan’s, and I understood. I also think that, possibly, her depression wasn’t the “commonplace experience” kind. It was a result of some severe stuff, so maybe that’s why Remi went with more extreme path? Personally, it suited me perfectly fine and I loved that expression of depression (it actually made me relate to Susan more), but I can see where you coming from too.

Honestly, everyone should play The Cat Lady at least once. If that would be result of this thread (for some reason) - that’s a great mission accomplished.

 

Oh absolutely. I still think it’s a good game - “not Top 10” isn’t exactly the worst criticism a game could get. Tongue

And I’m glad you could relate to Susan. Maybe I’m just unusual, the ordinary in games/movies/books often impresses me the most. I remember the parts of Kentucky Route Zero which stuck with me weren’t the magical stuff but just wandering around a farm, or sitting around a campfire.

That makes me think… has anyone thought of getting Mike Leigh or Ken Loach to write a game? I’d play that at the drop of a hat Heart Eyes

     
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Luhr28 - 13 May 2021 03:51 AM

And I’m glad you could relate to Susan. Maybe I’m just unusual, the ordinary in games/movies/books often impresses me the most. I remember the parts of Kentucky Route Zero which stuck with me weren’t the magical stuff but just wandering around a farm, or sitting around a campfire.

That makes me think… has anyone thought of getting Mike Leigh or Ken Loach to write a game? I’d play that at the drop of a hat Heart Eyes

Well, Luhr28… considering all the bloody mayhem that Susan’s depression expressed itself with, and me being able to relate to it… I’d say you’re not the unusual one Grin I mentally got a pass to do all kinds of crazy things if I, God forbid, ever experience anything similar. I’m stoked!

You know, I still haven’t played Kentucky Route Zero, although this dog in the hat looks at me with the soulful eyes on the occasional sale. I remember asking a few people to explain what is this game about, and it was always something very uncertain, like no one could quite describe it. Kinda like people who never played Danganronpa asking me what this game actually is Grin

Doom - 13 May 2021 01:48 AM

I’m currently playing Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney Justice for All, and one of the key characters (one of the more complex characters as well) is both “super-athletic” and confined to a wheelchair, and this does prove important during the investigation (can’t say more, or I’ll spoil it). I enjoyed this case the most so far. That said, I agree with some of the opinions that I don’t want a game to educate me on how disabled people live and make their everyday lives part of gameplay. And neither do most disabled people, I assure you. They would rather expect their own lives to be turned as comfortable and fully functional as possible, not the other way around.

If that’s your first time - I’m kinda jealous. I also never thought I’d love a game which is part visual novel and where I play an attorney, but I ended up loving it. It also has really good soundtrack, one of the few I downloaded fully for a casual listen to.
That’s why I’m very excited about the news of The Great Ace Attorney Chronicles!

https://adventuregamers.com/news/view/44195

I know the other parts were released on the platforms I don’t own, but this one seems to have “PC” in its line-up, and I’m really hoping it’s going to be great. It isn’t that far away too.

     
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DCast - 13 May 2021 01:31 AM

But neither is lack of diversity, let’s be honest. There are diverse characters out there, plenty actually. The call is for MORE diversity, which is statistically unrealistic and is, to my opinion, a strange request which really amounts to call for more characters with specific physical qualities.

I disagree with the notion that minorities should be represented in the same percentage they exist irl. The importance of representation is to be able to find (without going into great lenghts) all kinds of role models. I actually find this kind of offensive in the way I described already earlier: “you already have minorities shown here and there, no need to have more”. There are plenty of reasons to have more. And don’t forget that we have quite a lot of representation of cops and even witches etc. Entertainment doesn’t relate to real life like that.

DCast - 13 May 2021 01:31 AM

I would really like an example of this. Asking sincerely.
I can raise noise about tokens and virtue signaling. I’ve been a token plenty of times. And no, I’m not annoyed at having anyone represented. I just think it’s a superficial request.

I’m talking about some social media encounters so I don’t really have them saved, sorry. Though haven’t you honestly seen those snide remarks for example in Steam reviews when some game has “SJW themes” as they put it? I see this constantly, even when the game is obviously made with thought and love.

And I cannot fathom how asking for characters that would represent oneself would be a superficial request. I think this is something everyone should be requesting.

DCast - 13 May 2021 01:31 AM

This right here, especially the part from your quote I put in bold, is something I don’t understand. In absolute majority of cases diversity is a physical quality all of us have (skin color or sex? - EVERYONE has those) and something person had NO CONTROL over. That straight white dude you referred to a couple of times had zero agency in being born white and hetero. It’s not an achievement a person worked hard for that is worth celebrating, and it’s not something someone made a conscious choice about - like, I want to be Asian or deaf - it’s out of everyone’s control.
 
So how can people want more of something that is a physical attribute and tells me NOTHING about a character as a person, and on top of that was just “chanced” at birth? The fact that someone is, say, black or gay or blind tells me nothing whether this person is a good friend or hard worker or a jerk or a softy. Nothing.

Representation? Those are physical qualities though, so shall we stretch it further? I think there aren’t enough short men in adventures or redheads with green eyes, or women with long sexy legs or very old people. Height, hair color, eye color, legs and age are also attributes that everyone has, but wouldn’t it be a bit shallow if I’ll ask for more adventures with those green-eyed redheads? Why are those qualities that tells nothing about a character as a person coming on the forefront of being asked for in gaming? Are those the qualities people pay attention to in humans in real life? If, let’s say, you meet a person would you care if they are part of LGBTQ+ or have a particular skin color or would you care if they are nice or kind? Would you ever say I want more black friends or gay friends or mute friends? Just so you also “represent”. Or do you think it’d be quite a strange statement?

So why is it becoming a call in games? Not interesting characters, not deep or intelligent ones, or maybe unruly and wild, or heroic or villainous, but rather characters who have a certain skin color or sex or sexual preference or disability?

This is not a slight, by the way. I sincerely don’t understand it.

We aren’t asking about cardboard cutouts of minorities but those “living breathing” examples with emotions and complicated issues. What is so weird about wanting that whole person being gay instead of straight? Seriously? Sexuality and gender for the most part are not physical qualities, btw.

And yeah, definitely we should have more short men and fat people etc. represented too. It’s all about normalising things that are normal. These minorities who never - or almost never - see themselves anywhere are feeling otherness.

I also don’t choose my friends like I choose my entertainment. I find it stranger to make that connection in the first place.

DCast - 13 May 2021 01:31 AM

Unless you are (proverbial YOU, of course) is the person with a diverse issue that you feel like isn’t being properly represented - I don’t get it. If you’re asking on behalf of others - why? Do you think they are incapable of speaking for themselves if they want something or need someone like you to do it for them? Or do you genuinely want more characters with specific physical qualities that doesn’t say a lick about their inner world in games?

How do you know they are not indeed asking for representation for themselves? Or for their best friend? And maybe because they know what it’s like asking for it, they also include other minorities in there.

I don’t know much about the racial tensions in US and don’t pretend to, that’s not really what I’ve been about here. But I am a part of the LGBTQIA+ community, and an activist too, also experienced with mental issues and a lot of other things.

I am definitely asking for myself and for the others in my community and I can strongly relate to some other groups too. With the risk of people calling me “a white saviour”, I really don’t feel like the very small minorities should be left just fending for themselves. Others need to support them. I’d be screwed if others wouldn’t support me.

     

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DCast - 13 May 2021 02:43 AM
Baron_Blubba - 12 May 2021 04:54 PM

Hi DCast. If your name is an allusion to the Sega console, you’re welcome in my family tree any day.

It is not. It has a much more boring explanation. Smile All the hopes for family tree are lost, I suppose.

But I think a lot of people these days are forcing the issue like no one has ever forced it in the past, and while a great many of their hearts are in the right place, I think there is a lack of historical education that causes them to think they are the first to carry the torch, and they push hard and in the wrong places, and the result is counter-productive.
(Some people’s hearts are not in the right places, and they co-opt movements just to give themselves an identity and something to do, but that’s almost another story.)

I feel like there’s at least two great discussions hidden in there, and I’m not sure I can type any longer. But yes and yes.

Jdawg445 - 12 May 2021 07:24 PM

In georgia people are seperated, but more in the way of who has money and who doesnt. I like this quote from killer mike…

Isn’t the actual root of the problem, though? Lots of “racial issues” are actually masked socio-economical issues. It’s a great quote, and it kinda reminds me of the general sentiment I get from combat vets that I’m around a lot. Just replace Southerner with Marine, soldier, sailor or airman.

Luhr28 - 13 May 2021 12:52 AM

Because when you say that a game about a disabled person isn’t your idea of fun, well, others are discovering that going to Fantasy Land #28547 or Outer Space Planet X for the 100th time… is not theirs.

Fair statement. But we’re comparing overall adventure to a character here. Are they tired of going to fantasy land or do they simply want to go to fantasy land as a Native Indian person with agoraphobia because there aren’t enough of them in games? Either way, like I said, it’s great that people have different tastes, wonderful actually. But market has to always be in consideration for a developer if he wants to make anything out of it. I just think a game about disabled person with concentration on the process has to have something spectacular to sell well (not impossible). A trip to fantasy land will sell a little better just because it’s the kind of escape many people prefer on the regular. Which is not to say that those games shouldn’t innovate - they totally should.

So it’s really not about education for me, but the adventure. It’s taken some time for our genre to mature to the point where developers don’t necessarily see “adventure” as being flung to the far corners of the galaxy, exploring underground troll-filled caverns, or going ghost hunting in Cornwall, but the popularity of games like Cat Lady suggests it’s happening.

But The Cat Lady was still hell of an adventure. Violent and strange with many stories and interesting situations. Mental issues were an underlying base for everything, but the gameplay was pretty fast-paced and engaging. Quite often, only after playing through something, I’d come up with realization that it was a metaphor for something else, or that the meaning was a lot deeper.

This is my all-time top 10 game, by the way. Absolutely priceless.

Vegetable Party - 13 May 2021 01:46 AM

On the topic of education:

I.. do hope you get I also read books, watch documentaries, etc. Non-fiction books in particular are the biggest source of what you could call dry knowledge for me.

If that was me you wrote that to - I simply talked about myself. The sentiment was that I largely turn to games for escape and entertainment. I have made no statements on you reading/watching something or not. You seem like an intelligent person, so I’d assume you do, but that wasn’t an implication of anything.

I think games (and to different extends, other media) have a unique ability to convey information/experience. Education is not the term I’d use perse, but I guess you could call it that. If you play as a detective and the game tells you to do certain tasks and learn how to figure out a process of deduction, you learn something as well. Not just about those actions, but about the life and personality of the detective. I don’t see why that counts as fun, but playing as someone who is, in another way, not like you in your day to day experience, should be any different.

Because deducing a whodunnit is something I never get to do in real life, and it sounds exciting. Playing as someone who is going blind (and my vision as a player is limited) or watching for social feedback playing as person who has speech impediment doesn’t. Unlike solving a mystery, I do get to deal with other various issues on the daily basis in life, even if they aren’t those precise ones. Since I use games as means to escape and entertainment - those aren’t for me. But they maybe for others, it’s cool. To add something here - playing as an accountant or a miner also wouldn’t terribly excite me, nor playing as a marathon runner or runaway model (although, I’m sure, their day-to-day experience is much different then mine), so it isn’t really about disability - it’s about finding enough engaging stuff (which is personal) when it comes to playing.

To answer the original question of this thread: I’d like to see more games that take place underwater. In a dome, or as a creature that’s able to survive below the surface. I know there’s Freddi Fish, but is there anything geared at an older audience?

“SOMA” and “Reveal The Deep” are great, if you don’t mind horror vibes.

To answer your question not really because up until the late 90s early 2000s there was plenty of generational black wealth in Atlanta because black people owned a lot of real estate in Atlanta and had businesses that they passed down to their kids. That has changed in this recent generation.

     
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I agree that there shouldn’t be any question of representation depending on percentage of said race, it should be about the characters and the setting of the game. If I’m playing a game set in England in the 1500 I don’t want to see Hispanic Kings or black queens, just like if I’m playing a game set in Africa I don’t want to see a whole bunch of whites. To put it in a modern context I’m playing Persona 5 srrikers right now which takes place in Japan. it would be weird if half the student population of the game was black, it just is what it is. Just like it was dumb that the show friends, a show that took place in New York basically had no minorities at all in it.

That goes to setting what about characters, I want more representation of races in games, but I don’t want the race to be the only character trait which happens a lot, Or their gender. For example take Horizon zero Dawn, I love the game but I almost turned it off in the first 10 hours because of the convoluted social political message that it tried to shove in at the beginning. Which had no place in that universe and the story they were trying to tell

     
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This will be my last post on race relations for a bit but I’ve also been keeping up with the news that they’re going to make a new Superman movie who will be black and I’ve been watching all the sides debate it. It has been quite interesting. There are some people that absolutely love it, then there are some people who absolutely hate it too. I’ve seen quite a few black commentators say that they don’t want a black Superman because they don’t want white people’s table scraps. they’d rather have new and exciting original black Heroes like the Black Panther, or spawn, or blade. It does raise an interesting point could you imagine if Marvel announced a remake of blade starring Jason Statham. Twitter and most of the internet would lose their ever-loving Minds, rightfully so too.

     
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Jdawg445 - 13 May 2021 10:35 AM

This will be my last post on race relations for a bit but I’ve also been keeping up with the news that they’re going to make a new Superman movie who will be black and I’ve been watching all the sides debate it. It has been quite interesting. There are some people that absolutely love it, then there are some people who absolutely hate it too. I’ve seen quite a few black commentators say that they don’t want a black Superman because they don’t want white people’s table scraps. they’d rather have new and exciting original black Heroes like the Black Panther, or spawn, or blade. It does raise an interesting point could you imagine if Marvel announced a remake of blade starring Jason Statham. Twitter and most of the internet would lose their ever-loving Minds, rightfully so too.

No one will ever be happy. To be happy is to lose a crusade, to lose a crusade is to lose a sense of purpose. To lose a sense of purpose is to lose a part of your identity, and also to lose a way to fill the timespace and headspace in one’s life. On and on down the rabbit hole…Some people will never let go of a thing that their intellectual comfort and identity depend on, no matter how obsolete it’s become. It’s like an argument where one side made the winning case a long time ago, but the other side keeps coming up with idiosyncratic hypothetical but-sir-it’s-the-principal-of-the-matter reasons to keep the conversation going.

Here’s a conundrum: If Superman is black, but doesn’t behave like he’s black, will people complain that they just put a white man in black skin? And if he ‘behaves black’, will people say that they are just perpetuating the harmful stereotypes that are hamstringing black culture from surmounting its social challenges?
I think a lot of pro athletes are subject to this darned if you do, darned if you don’t criticism. If you eat a watermelon, you’re perpetuating a stereotype. If you don’t, you’re denying your cultural heritage, as if to say ‘You can’t be a successful black person and eat watermelon at the same time.’
I used a cliche like watermelon as a substitute for more complex stereotypes, because I don’t have time to get that detailed right now.

On topic: I’d like more adventure games about the Three Musketeers Saga, doing in a game-to-literature context exactly what Alexander Dumas did in a literature-to-history context: In his books, the protagonists never alter the course of established history. If Charles I *spoiler alert* was going to be executed, his characters would never change that fact. What they would do is play a behind the scenes role in either facilitating or attempting to stop the execution—they are, in a sense, ‘the secret agents of history.’ I would like a game, where we play, not as his protagonists, but as secret agents who at at work behind the scenes in his stories—fourth musketeers, if you will, although nothing as contrite as that.
I’m singling out Dumas because his stories would be *perfect* for adventure game adaptation, and the game world would be varied and beautiful and emotional. I’d love games based on many other pieces of literature too: Gormenghast (Mervyn Peake) could be sublime; much of the work of Victor Hugo (just leave Les Mis alone), Cyrano would be oh! So good!; Rafael Sabatini’s Scaramouche and The Lost Prince; Samuel Shellebarger’s (spelled his name wrong for sure) Prince of Foxes. All of these books take place in fascinating historic times and settings, with a focus on maintaining the integrity of the historical tapestry, while weaving in threads of fiction.

 

     

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