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Bioshock Infinite

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Frogacuda - 30 March 2013 11:50 AM
Zifnab - 30 March 2013 12:57 AM

The connection is hardly tenuous. All the “Shock” games have had the same story, repeated in different settings.

Honestly, I don’t really see a lot of story parallels between Infinite and Bioshock. Maybe in the broadest sense that you go to a seperatist city and shoot people, but that’s about it.

You said it in your last post. They are all about, broadly, certain kinds of utopias or utopian ideals gone terribly wrong (haven’t finished Infinite yet but it seems to fit that concept too). Ideas that went too far by overreliance on them - bioengineering, artificial intelligence and future technology, religious autocracy.

     
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Zifnab - 30 March 2013 07:38 PM

You said it in your last post. They are all about, broadly, certain kinds of utopias or utopian ideals gone terribly wrong (haven’t finished Infinite yet but it seems to fit that concept too). Ideas that went too far by overreliance on them - bioengineering, artificial intelligence and future technology, religious autocracy.

I don’t entirely agree with this summary.

Infinite is about the emergence of American Exceptionalism at the turn of the century, and Bioshock was about objectivism in the post-War period, and in particularly framed against the context of the rise of Communism in Russia in the first half of the century. So they’re both about mini-societies founded on a real ideology of the time period that left the society at large, so yes they do have that in common.

But that ideology is only the downfall of Rapture, not of Columbia. Rapture’s story was one about the sociopathic nature of objectivism, where the economy was shifted from acquiring money to acquiring Adam/surviving. They were undone by the very ideal they were founded on.

But Columbia’s inflated sense of American Exceptionalism isn’t what hurts them, really. Life actually seems pretty good for (white Christian) people before you get there and start mucking things up. While the game certainly goes out of its way to show the ugly side of this; the zealotry and bigotry in particular, it isn’t their undoing. It also isn’t even that exaggerated for the time period. It does a pretty good job of portraying race and class issues as they actually were in 1912. It’s left to players to judge that, rather than the narrative.

     
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You know more about them than me. (I haven’t even completed any of them)

I just think the differences aren’t enough to say they can’t be a series of games, even spiritually. Not that it really matters anyway. What’s in a name?

I definitely would have been more attracted if it had been called Fall of Columbia like you suggested, I doubt that goes for the majority given the popularity of the series.

     
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Frogacuda - 30 March 2013 08:29 PM

But Columbia’s inflated sense of American Exceptionalism isn’t what hurts them, really. Life actually seems pretty good for (white Christian) people before you get there and start mucking things up. While the game certainly goes out of its way to show the ugly side of this; the zealotry and bigotry in particular, it isn’t their undoing. It also isn’t even that exaggerated for the time period. It does a pretty good job of portraying race and class issues as they actually were in 1912. It’s left to players to judge that, rather than the narrative.


But eventually the extremism that fuels Columbia would lead to Elizabeth attacking New York in a very direct metaphor for 9/11. That was a constant for every reality where Comstock exists and that’s why you win the game by refusing baptism - religion being the root cause of extremism in Levine’s world. It’s a very subversive game.

     
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Zifnab - 30 March 2013 08:56 PM

I just think the differences aren’t enough to say they can’t be a series of games, even spiritually.

Oh, there’s totally a spiritual connection. I’m not denying that. I’m just saying their realtionship feels more like Far Cry to Crysis or Portal to Quantum Conundrum to me than it does a “sequel.”

I don’t have a problem with them calling it Bioshock either, I just cynically said that the decision was commercially minded. Which might or might not be the case.

In any event, they’re both totally great in different ways.

     
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Frogacuda - 30 March 2013 10:14 PM
Zifnab - 30 March 2013 08:56 PM

I just think the differences aren’t enough to say they can’t be a series of games, even spiritually.

Oh, there’s totally a spiritual connection. I’m not denying that. I’m just saying their realtionship feels more like Far Cry to Crysis or Portal to Quantum Conundrum to me than it does a “sequel.”

I don’t have a problem with them calling it Bioshock either, I just cynically said that the decision was commercially minded. Which might or might not be the case.

In any event, they’re both totally great in different ways.

Its not commercially minded if this was the original design. Commercially minded would mean that the decision was made later on, but that was not true. Like I said, Infinite was the real sequel as Bioshock 2 was not made by Irrational. You can’t deny the design from the developers mouth.

They chose the name Bioshock to represent the ideology, not because it best fit the story of ‘Rapture’. The name’s purpose was designed since the beginning of development.

     

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Monolith - 31 March 2013 06:10 AM

Like I said, Infinite was the real sequel as Bioshock 2 was not made by Irrational. You can’t deny the design from the developers mouth.

I try my best to pretend Bioshock 2 never existed.

     
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There are more if you can dig up.

EDIT:

Edited and deleted the text 3 times now, the spoiler tag aint working Frown

Edit: There you go


Throughout BioShock, the bathyspheres are used by Jack as a mode of transportation to travel around Rapture and its “abandoned” city sections. It is revealed that Jack can use the bathyspheres only because his genetic signature is close enough to Ryan’s that the security system doesn’t deny him access. Sullivan clearly states this in one of his Audio Diaries “Sisters, cousins — anyone in the ballpark genetically will be able to come and go as they see fit.” , so Comstock = Andrew Ryan , Rapture =Columbia and so on

 

     
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nomadsoul - 31 March 2013 08:54 AM

There are more if you can dig up.

EDIT:

Edited and deleted the text 3 times now, the spoiler tag aint working Frown

Edit: There you go


Throughout BioShock, the bathyspheres are used by Jack as a mode of transportation to travel around Rapture and its “abandoned” city sections. It is revealed that Jack can use the bathyspheres only because his genetic signature is close enough to Ryan’s that the security system doesn’t deny him access. Sullivan clearly states this in one of his Audio Diaries “Sisters, cousins — anyone in the ballpark genetically will be able to come and go as they see fit.” , so Comstock = Andrew Ryan , Rapture =Columbia and so on

That’s what I got as well. Rature and Bioshock was just another possibility in the infinite universe of the same characters. It’s why Rature was never mentioned in the game before that point. They don’t inhabit the same universe. You start both games by enterting a lighthouse i.e entering another universe. Did you also think that DeWitt had been on this resuce mission multiple times before. The bit where the Lutrecs have you toss the coin and it always comes up heads (I picked Tails) all the marks on the board were previous versions of you trying the mission and failing.

Fecking loved the game.

Also did anyone else nearly drop your controller at the one jump scare in the game. I crapped myself.(not literaly)

     

An adventure game is nothing more than a good story set with engaging puzzles that fit seamlessly in with the story and the characters, and looks and sounds beautiful.
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Frogacuda - 31 March 2013 08:15 AM
Monolith - 31 March 2013 06:10 AM

Like I said, Infinite was the real sequel as Bioshock 2 was not made by Irrational. You can’t deny the design from the developers mouth.

I try my best to pretend Bioshock 2 never existed.

Why do people hate Bioshock 2 so much?

It’s wasn’t awful. The story stayed within’ the setup started by Levine. The only thing I wish they had changed was the big sisters. It would of been more dramatic I think if there was only one of them and you were forced to hold it off while you fled the arena or something. The game could of been an expansion or DLC and probably been more acceptable I suppose. Minerva’s den was good.

Is it just because people compare it to the first one and laugh or something?

     

Recently completed: Game of Thrones (decent), Tales from the borderlands (great!), Life is Strange (great!), Stasis (good), Annas Quest (great!); Broken Age (poor)

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Lucien21 - 01 April 2013 11:21 AM

Did you also think that DeWitt had been on this resuce mission multiple times before. The bit where the Lutrecs have you toss the coin and it always comes up heads (I picked Tails) all the marks on the board were previous versions of you trying the mission and failing.

 


Its a fact , since there are plenty of clues Smile


Letuces are same person ,different genders, joined together from different timelines, executing the thought experiment again and again , to have atleast one Booker to finally achieve their goal, they also killed the tower gatekeeper, and its their note on the dead body, that labels DONT DISSAPOINT US. You are right on point about tally marks, its total tally equal is 122, Male letuce has another chalk/pen board on his back which you can see later on to add tally marks, front and back board on his body = 122, its the same number Dewitt uses to bell the ring at tower top in the beginning, confirming the theory. Other clues that its a loop with many dewitt coming again and again, letuces make lots of comment throughout the game like
He is not moving, he eventually will = if you wait on boat in the begiining,
It doesnt matter what the choice, its always the same, its semantics now.
He doesnt row.
One knowing experiment will fail, one knowing experiment HAS failed.
do not pick 77, but its always 77 and so on


Smile

 

 

If you want pics i can PM you.

 


EDIT:


Some guy did Thematic Analysis, which is really well analyzed, and what i thought too,
specially about the religious themes not being mocked in the game, but its way around.

DONT CLICK IT, CONTAIN ALL SPOILERS, BUT MUST A READ FOR THOSE WHO HAVE FINISHED

http://peripsuche.blogspot.co.uk/2013/03/bioshock-infinite-thematic-analysis.html

 

     
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Tad - 01 April 2013 11:30 AM
Frogacuda - 31 March 2013 08:15 AM
Monolith - 31 March 2013 06:10 AM

Like I said, Infinite was the real sequel as Bioshock 2 was not made by Irrational. You can’t deny the design from the developers mouth.

I try my best to pretend Bioshock 2 never existed.

Why do people hate Bioshock 2 so much?

It’s wasn’t awful. The story stayed within’ the setup started by Levine. The only thing I wish they had changed was the big sisters. It would of been more dramatic I think if there was only one of them and you were forced to hold it off while you fled the arena or something. The game could of been an expansion or DLC and probably been more acceptable I suppose. Minerva’s den was good.

Is it just because people compare it to the first one and laugh or something?

I personally didn’t hate it, but I personally hate the fact that its considered Bioshock 2, which throws off the naming convention originally created. I would go as far to say that there are some great parts the game did better than Bioshock. Especially those underwater parts.

     

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Monolith - 01 April 2013 10:17 PM
Tad - 01 April 2013 11:30 AM
Frogacuda - 31 March 2013 08:15 AM
Monolith - 31 March 2013 06:10 AM

Like I said, Infinite was the real sequel as Bioshock 2 was not made by Irrational. You can’t deny the design from the developers mouth.

I try my best to pretend Bioshock 2 never existed.

Why do people hate Bioshock 2 so much?

It’s wasn’t awful. The story stayed within’ the setup started by Levine. The only thing I wish they had changed was the big sisters. It would of been more dramatic I think if there was only one of them and you were forced to hold it off while you fled the arena or something. The game could of been an expansion or DLC and probably been more acceptable I suppose. Minerva’s den was good.

Is it just because people compare it to the first one and laugh or something?

I personally didn’t hate it, but I personally hate the fact that its considered Bioshock 2, which throws off the naming convention originally created. I would go as far to say that there are some great parts the game did better than Bioshock. Especially those underwater parts.

Having played it recently I also thought it was quite good. I think the gameplay/combat was better than the first Bioshock. The Big Daddy cicle of killing another Big Daddy/protecting Little Sister/killing Big Sister was fun. The Minerva’s Den DLC was also very interesting.

     
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I think we just need to accept that System Shock 1 & 2 and Bioshock 1,2, Infinite are just great games that are unique in there own rights. You can’t compare Infinite to Bioshock and call it unoriginal. Its the same fucking series. lol

     

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Glad to hear it wasn’t just me that thought Bioshock 2 was good then.

Just finished Bioshock Infinite by the way.

Think its pretty good. Has all the right elements mixed together well. The story is a bit too complex and harder to follow I feel, but still good.

Bioshock 1/2 showed what could go wrong if you follow a set of beliefs (religious or not), Infinite has the same push, but its showing more then one at the same time. It works, but like I said, its a lot more complex and I think it will go over a lot of people’s heads.

     

Recently completed: Game of Thrones (decent), Tales from the borderlands (great!), Life is Strange (great!), Stasis (good), Annas Quest (great!); Broken Age (poor)

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