Adventure Gamers - Forums

Vegetable Party - 26 May 2021 12:02 PM

what I liked: wandering around Sherwood Forest, some beautiful locations, graphically very near to the quality of King’s Quest V. The game gives both a sense of freedom and direction and its story is well told. The approach to puzzles (and.. copyright protection?) was pretty cool, figuring out codes and meanings using both in-game and external information.

what I didn’t like: some of the.. let’s call it outdated humour. If this game is ever remade, I hope they’ll take a different approach to comedy.

I didn’t get a perfect score and Marian (Kate Bush) and I did not wed. I think I got an ending that worked for me.

For what it’s worth, I’m not sure I ever got a perfect score either, although I have come very close.

I don’t know that any of the scenes in this game are as in-and-of-themselves beautiful as some of the backgrounds in the King’s Quest series, but(!) they are so incredibly atmospheric that I find myself utterly captivated by them. The first two screens of the game, Robin’s cave and the ‘dining/sheriff beating area’ outside speak so strongly to certain innate sensibilities that I have, that every time I see them I just long to superimpose myself into the game and live there for a while. For an idea of where I’m coming from, I’ve attached pictures to this post of *the only* art print that I have ever considered paying a high triple digit price for (fortunately, my sister is a fabulous painter and she painted the image on canvas for me for my birthday several years ago).
The fact that the writing is so good, both the narrative and the dialogue, only immerses me deeper into the world. I love how there is no topical humor in the entire game (barring a couple of well veiled easter eggs and the fair, which is tastefully done); it works hard to bring the player into the Robin Hood’s world, and understands that once that is accomplished, the worst thing it could do would be to push the player back out with a fourth wall break or contemporary joke.
Speaking of the humor,: Ben Franklin (and others) said, ‘Don’t judge the past by the standards of the present.’ I don’t mean ‘don’t judge 1992 by the standards of 2021’; I mean ‘don’t judge 1992 by the standards of ~1200 AD.’ Perhaps the Christy Marx was hewing closer to her PG interpretation of the kind of bawdy talk that might have existed around Robin’s campfire in those times?
Regarding the Franklin quote - he wasn’t speaking holistically: There are times when we must judge the past by the standards of the present, so we don’t repeat the errors/atrocities/tragedies of the past. But if we’re making a historical reproduction, it makes sense for there to be a certain amount of objectification and homophobic humor in certain pieces of dialogue. (I don’t think the humor in Robin Hood was homophobic, but there might have been some lines that would be less than flattering to a gay person. Robin Hood is fearless, and therefore not phobic of anything, after all ).

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DCast - 27 May 2021 05:09 AM

Would love to hear your thoughts! I just finished it, and I really enjoyed it - it’s sort of nonsensical, silly fun set in the 80s

I will. Played it for only 15 minutes just now and liked it. But my past experinece with fetch quests warns me that I might get tired of them.

Doom - 27 May 2021 11:09 AM

Sorry to hear you didn’t enjoy it as much as I did since I share your thoughts towards traditional 3rd-person adventures - at least those released during the past 5 years or so. Pretty much everything I really liked was either non-traditional or from earlier times. But I thought puzzle design in Mutropolis was excellent, I used trial and error only maybe twice when I got stuck exploring the map or passing the 3 trials as I couldn’t figure out the way to overcome the fear of holes -

I had no problem with that particular puzzle, so it’s probably partly a matter of the different kind of puzzles you and I prefer. An example of the trial-and-error I hated (I had to look up the solution!) is Max dealing with the croc. I had NO idea what I was doing with the water, the console, the cage, the flowers. At first I thought Mr Croc was suffering from hayfever, but apparently he was being stung by BEES that I had created by adding SALT that he was carrying (huh?) to WATER. Does that even make sense??

I did have fun with it. I’m not saying it’s a bad adventure, not at all.

I hated Irony Curtain, boring as hell, no creativity, humor sucked, unfinished.
Enjoyed both Larry games, but they were too long for me. At some point I’d had enough and wanted to play something else.
Loved Smile for Me. Very much under the radar. Technobabylon was great too.
Virtuaverse not so much, bad writing, same old puzzles, unfinished.
Kevin and the Infamous Machine, not much wrong with I guess, yawn, unfinished.
Unforeseen Incidents was okay, I enjoyed it, but forgettable.
The Inner World 2 was hard but satisfying.
Thimbleweed Park disappointed me in many ways. Okay game, I guess.
Encodya also didn’t have what it takes

Baron_Blubba - 27 May 2021 06:47 PM

The first two screens of the game, Robin’s cave and the ‘dining/sheriff beating area’ outside speak so strongly to certain innate sensibilities that I have, that every time I see them I just long to superimpose myself into the game and live there for a while. For an idea of where I’m coming from, I’ve attached pictures to this post of *the only* art print that I have ever considered paying a high triple digit price for (fortunately, my sister is a fabulous painter and she painted the image on canvas for me for my birthday several years ago).

That is awesome.

I really liked the fair, with the references to Sierra employees, the Daventrian (?) rug salesman and even a bit of flat Earth discussion (who knew that’d be topical in 2021..).

DCast - 27 May 2021 10:32 PM

I played the demo for Mutropolis, and while I generally liked it - I thought it was a bit too dialogue-heavy on redundant topics, reminded me of Oxenfree when everyone just kept talking and talking… With that being said, I might take a look at it again - it did end at the interesting part, and I though the art stye was quite unique.

I rarely play demos and I missed this one. If they used the first chapter which basically consists of one screen than it is indeed heavy on dialogues and light on puzzles, but I wouldn’t say it’s a good representation of the gameplay which is more puzzle-oriented. But then again I finished a number of games SO heavy on dialogue (Ace Attorney, Ghost Trick, Disco Elysium) recently that I probably wouldn’t pay attention anymore)

Karlok - 27 May 2021 11:27 PM

I had no problem with that particular puzzle, so it’s probably partly a matter of the different kind of puzzles you and I prefer. An example of the trial-and-error I hated (I had to look up the solution!) is Max dealing with the croc. I had NO idea what I was doing with the water, the console, the cage, the flowers. At first I thought Mr Croc was suffering from hayfever, but apparently he was being stung by BEES that I had created by adding SALT that he was carrying (huh?) to WATER. Does that even make sense??

I enjoyed playing as Max, it came as a surprise, like virtual reality in Sam & Max games. But now that you mentioned it, it was indeed more of trial and error. Although I think you got it all wrong) From what I remember, it was not salt, but a saltcellar, and it fell off the bird’s mouth after that croc scared it away (I don’t know why the bird was holding a saltcellar, maybe because it was a shiny object, but I spotted a white pixel right away). And then Max used it as a nozzle in the hose to water flowers. They stared blooming, attracted bees and that’s when the bees attacked the passing croc. It probably still sounds like a moon logic, but that whole section was just so weird that I didn’t think much of it)

Doom - 28 May 2021 03:58 PM

I enjoyed playing as Max, it came as a surprise, like virtual reality in Sam & Max games. But now that you mentioned it, it was indeed more of trial and error. Although I think you got it all wrong) From what I remember, it was not salt, but a saltcellar, and it fell off the bird’s mouth after that croc scared it away (I don’t know why the bird was holding a saltcellar, maybe because it was a shiny object, but I spotted a white pixel right away). And then Max used it as a nozzle in the hose to water flowers. They stared blooming, attracted bees and that’s when the bees attacked the passing croc. It probably still sounds like a moon logic, but that whole section was just so weird that I didn’t think much of it)

LOL! Yeah, your explanation makes sense, I totally missed the part about the nozzle and couldn’t understand why the flowers needed salty water.  There were other trial-and-error puzzles, like learning the rain dance, that I didn’t dislike as much as the croc puzzle.

I finished The Blackwell Epiphany a couple of days ago.

Strongest puzzles of the entire series, for sure. Also the best graphics, and the voice acting is even more superlative than ever. Dave Gilbert really knows how to create a scene, building drama without going overboard with purple prose, melodrama, or too much exposition. Similar to the way Monkey Island does humor with an economy of dialogue (think about it, no one in that game rarely says more than two sentences in a row, and you rarely have more than one or two back and forths per dialogue tree choice), Gilbert creates meaningful, informative, and story-driving conversations with an admirable amount of self editing.
The scope of the story increases slowly, and if you stop in the middle and think back to how it all began (both in the game and the series as a whole), it is really quite remarkable how much ground it covers, physically and thematically.
Still…the plot ends up going a little too far toward the end, escalating much too quickly, turning what was originally a local, personal, story into a tale of cosmic proportions. I couldn’t help but feel that the writers lost control of the plot toward the end, and that certain resolutions or points that they wanted to hit could only be hit by letting the line (as in, fishing line) out further and further until what was originally an incredibly taut plot ended up with some slack in it.
Nevertheless, the story and writing always remained head and shoulders above most games, and I was always happy to keep playing and see it through ‘til the end.
If you’ve played through the entire series to get to this point (and you absolutely must, really), then a lot of the puzzle elements will have become routine by now. Locked door, send Joey in. Learn a new proper noun that might be relevant, search it on your phone. Blow things on to the floor. Still, almost all the puzzles were satisfying to solve, even the more mundane and obvious ones; and several of the unique puzzles were immensely satisfying and utterly top-class in the genre.
Kudos to Dave Gilbert and Wadjeteye for ending the series like this. You get an ending that is not particularly happy or particularly sad. You get an ending that is full of possibility and potential for all involved, especially knowing all we’ve learned about the way life after death works in the Blackwell universe. Where there is life, there is hope. And where there is death, there is also hope.

Final score from me is a very solid 8/10.
Rosa Blackwell and Joey Mallone have adventured their way into the pantheon of adventure game heroes. I didn’t like them much at first, but they really grew on me in the last couple of games. Great series overall.

PS: The way the kid at the tech store lets you just waltz right into his boss’s office is nonsense of the highest pie-in-the-yeti’s face proportions.

Karlok - 28 May 2021 06:49 PM

LOL! Yeah, your explanation makes sense, I totally missed the part about the nozzle and couldn’t understand why the flowers needed salty water.  There were other trial-and-error puzzles, like learning the rain dance, that I didn’t dislike as much as the croc puzzle.

Yes, some of those pictures made little sense indeed and had me look for solutions through trial and error. But the zaniness of the whole “smiley” section along with the dancing Isis with her only move made my day)

I finished playing two games yesterday! Disco Elysium and Techno Babylon

Disco Elysium is a tough nut to crack, and during the first couple of hours I was not sure I’d have the time or patience for something so *dense*. I’m glad I persevered, though, because by the time the credits had finished rolling I really had only one complaint about the game: The credits are not skippable, and I was in a hurry to press the ‘New Game’ button on the main menu and start all over again. Game’s a masterpiece, through and through. If I really sat down and started writing my thoughts about the entire experience, it would take ages and pages, so I’m only going to say this, in hopes of persuading reluctant would-be players to actually go ahead and play it: I am not a fan of the kinds of stories involving people waking up in their dirty underwear with miserable hangovers in miserable apartments. I’m not fan of stories with emphasis on drugs, alcohol, and domestic abuse. I’m not into overtly political stories, be they social politics or governmental politics, no matter which direction they lean in or ideologies they are informed by. And I don’t often enjoy semi-abstract purple prose and the romanticization of decay.
Disco Elysium involves all of these things, and I still love it. Why? One reason, mainly: At the end of the day, its heart is in the right place. Play it through to the end. Give it your all. Invest yourself in it. Read the dialogue, read the narration, and take the time to absorb, internalize, and, when possible (because sometimes it is intentionally nonsensical or obtuse), understand it. Guarantee that if you do that, your heart will be set aflutter several times. You will wince, you will cry a a little, you will rejoice, you will feel the euphoria of finding salvation where you thought there was not even a sliver of hope…both for yourself, and the characters you will come to know and befriend. There’s an awesome sense of humanity here. Also nastiness, also cruelty, also injustice, yes, but underneath it all there is a benevolence that permeates and will not die, ever. Even if you try to let your character sink into the abyss, there’s a spark of human life that refuses to be extinguished…so long as you can withstand the discomforts of Evrart Claire’s horrible chair.

I’d give Disco Elysium a 10/10. It was clearly a monumental task and a massive labor of love for its developers, and their efforts yielded a monumental artistic achievement. And it’s also just lots of fun, no matter how high-falutin’ it (and all the pages that have been written about it) can sometimes be.

Moving on to Techno Babylon. This is a game that really grew on me. I came into it with incredibly high expectations, having heard very wonderful things about it on this forum and elsewhere, and because it was recommended to me by a few people whose opinions I trust. The puzzle design was good from the start, but I wasn’t buying the setting, plot, and characters. The setting: Trite and sterile. The plot: Just another overgrown out of control AI with all of the stereotypical moral dilemmas that come with ‘how much artificial intelligence is too much? When does it cease to be artificial and become ‘simply’ intelligent? How much power should we abdicate to a non-human entity? And what is the moral code of conduct toward such an advanced form of AI?’ Yeah, it’s all very poignant, but we’ve all seen Bladerunner and Ghost In The Shell, and we’ve all read Asimov…and countless other movies and stories based on these ideas, some expressed superlatively, and others…not so much. So the plot was nothing new. And the characters? At the beginning of the game they were *so* stiff, and *so* contrived. The developers seem to have ungracefully dropped some small and irrelevant details about each of them in order to round them out a little, give them some depth, but it didn’t resonate with me. Still, I could deal with Charlie and Max…after all, King Graham isn’t exactly much of a study in humanity either…but Latha Sesame (what a terrifically stupid name…is there a literary reference here that I’m missing? Open Sesame maybe?)...man, I did not enjoy playing as her. As much as the entire game commits what I feel is a cardinal sin of making the player to feel things by forcing him to do things that he absolutely would never do in real life, things which yield tragic results, playing as Trance addict Latha was hard for me. I hated having to solve puzzles that would enable her to feed her addiction. Yeah, there’s a plot explanation toward the end of the game as to why she is addicted, but that didn’t make the first 3/4 less painful. It was like playing as an opiate addict or alcoholic, trying to help them procure their next fix. I *really* didn’t like it. (You can probably guess how much drugs and booze I consumed in my playthrough of Disco Elysium ). Also, the game gives you those stupid ‘two horrible scenarios, which one do you choose?’ choices…and then you choose one and it ends up carrying out both. It’s an effective way to make me hate the villain (and I really do hate the villain), but I also kind of hated the game’s writers at that point, too.

But for all this, ya know what? Technobabylon is a really good game!The story became progressively more engrossing as it developed (you’d think this might be obvious, but it’s amazing how many games just lose steam—and my interest—after a strong opening). As it developed, it became increasingly more complex, but the game does a great job of making sure the player doesn’t get lost. Character roles and key plot elements are reiterated gracefully, as if to acknowledge that maybe Baron Blubba doesn’t have the greatest short term memory…so let’s jog that blubbery brain of his every now and then. The characters never became endearing, but they did become actual characters to me, not just pieces of cardboard, and by the final scene…yeah, I cared. TBC

The puzzles were a strong point throughout, and were the sole element that kept me going in the rough early stages. They weren’t *all* great, but they were for the most part very good. I would have liked a little more challenge, but at the same time, I feel they were challenging enough to both make me satisfied at giving my brain a light workout, and at keeping the plot moving at a brisk pace. There were a couple toward the end that I didn’t like, specifically using the infrared goggles to see the wiring compartments in the Aerostat (there’s no indication or hot spot text when you hover over those compartments while wearing the glasses;, and putting the wrench in the elevator mid-ride. I could not figure out to use the wrench while the elevator was moving.
The best part of the game? The final few button presses are all incredibly significant. From a perspective of impact-per-click, these are definitely the most meaningful ones in the entire game. Tremendous and memorable way to finish.
Finally, while I did not necessarily enjoy many of the characters in this game, the voice acting was very good throughout.

So! Kudos to Technocrat and their game, Technobabylon, for winning me over like this, and thanks to everyone for disagreeing with me in the What Are You Playing Now thread. I still don’t think it’s a modern masterpiece that belongs anywhere near the greatness that is King’s Quest V…or even Day of the Tentacle (tongue firmly in cheek there), but it’s a really good game that I am glad to have played and will probably recommend to several friends in the future. I’ll give it a solid 6.5/10 based on my own subjective tastes, and an easy 7.5/10 for someone with more of a preexisting affinity for the themes, characters, and settings that are explored.

Baron_Blubba - 04 June 2021 06:33 PM

The puzzles were a strong point throughout, and were the sole element that kept me going in the rough early stages. They weren’t *all* great, but they were for the most part very good. I would have liked a little more challenge, but at the same time, I feel they were challenging enough to both make me satisfied at giving my brain a light workout, and at keeping the plot moving at a brisk pace. There were a couple toward the end that I didn’t like, specifically using the infrared goggles to see the wiring compartments in the Aerostat (there’s no indication or hot spot text when you hover over those compartments while wearing the glasses;, and putting the wrench in the elevator mid-ride. I could not figure out to use the wrench while the elevator was moving.
The best part of the game? The final few button presses are all incredibly significant. From a perspective of impact-per-click, these are definitely the most meaningful ones in the entire game. Tremendous and memorable way to finish.
Finally, while I did not necessarily enjoy many of the characters in this game, the voice acting was very good throughout.

So! Kudos to Technocrat and their game, Technobabylon, for winning me over like this, and thanks to everyone for disagreeing with me in the What Are You Playing Now thread. I still don’t think it’s a modern masterpiece that belongs anywhere near the greatness that is King’s Quest V…or even Day of the Tentacle (tongue firmly in cheek there), but it’s a really good game that I am glad to have played and will probably recommend to several friends in the future. I’ll give it a solid 6.5/10 based on my own subjective tastes, and an easy 7.5/10 for someone with more of a preexisting affinity for the themes, characters, and settings that are explored.

Great review! I like when someone presents his/her arguments so well that even if I don’t agree with some of them (and I don’t haha), I can agree to desagree.

For me Technobabylon is a modern classic, probably the adventure game (pure) of this century (fighting vs Primordia and Blackwell: Epiphany) that I enjoyed the most (which doesn’t mean is the best). I remarked “pure” because in the “non pure” category we would find The Walking Dead first season (and final season very close), To The Moon and Life is Strange (games that I have played, that is. Maybe when I finally play Return of the Obra Dinn, Disco Elysium and There is no Game: Wrong Dimension I change my mind).