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DaleLuhr28TimovieMan

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Should support of an artist be influenced by their beliefs/attitudes?

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Quest1 - 05 June 2013 09:11 PM
TerminusEst - 05 June 2013 08:55 PM

And, in any case, we need to be able to differentiate between one’s private beliefs (i.e. what one teaches his/her children) and what one says in public (and then, potentially, erases).

We also need to be careful about making up and speculating about, in the context of talking about people who incite anti-gay hate and violence, what someone may or may not teach their children in private. To assume that TenNapel, or anyone else who believes in marriage tradition or is a Christian, goes out of his way to privately demean gays in particular and then pretends differently in public is a pretty nasty, shameful thing to say. Shame on you.

Have I managed to get a rise out of our resident troll? Hm. Shame on you too for your piss-poor reading comprehension, sir. Cheers.

     
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TerminusEst - 05 June 2013 10:07 PM

Have I managed to get a rise out of our resident troll? Hm. Shame on you too for your piss-poor reading comprehension, sir. Cheers.

You can call me any name you like, just as long as you’ve realized that your cheap attempts to smear people like TenNapel won’t go unchallenged.

     
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Can we keep it civil, please?

Even though this entire thread was created because of a couple of TenNapel’s statements, it’s about a more general thought than the specific examples that were given throughout.
Maybe we should focus more on where we draw the line for ourselves (with artists in general) without devolving this into smear campaigns against artists with controversial viewpoints?

     

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I agree it is kind of a stretch to assume he’s teaching his kids to hate gay people based on one comment. In my experience the media will take the single most controversial sentence someone has said out of context and try and blow it into something bigger in order to get readers.

I just hope the Kickstarter for Armikrog doesn’t fail because of this. Maybe the big games publishers are trying to make him seem so anti-gay because they want the kickstarter to fail so people will spend more money on their games instead.

Honestly I don’t see what the big deal is. People have different beliefs, the man doesn’t believe in gay marriage, so what? I personally don’t agree with his view but I could care less what he thinks about it because how does his opinion on that matter?  As I posted before, if the whole truth were told there’s probably something about everyone that if known would create controversy.

     
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i received this PM from an old poster here we all know that had been away for a while (quite a while)...

anonymous:
Hi, Advie!

Just wanted to say that I’m glad to see yours and Quest1’s support for Doug and his views. I’m also unhappy to see all those aggressive liberal attacks aimed at gifted, talented people with strong position. I had high hopes for adventure crowd, but alas - so many nasty things about Doug in Twitter & here (and not only him, but everyone with slightly conservative or religious views). This trend scares me and I really hope that - at least - it won’t hurt Armikrog’s campaign.

he might better directed it to Quest but as we had some kind of a little communication going on and we ask about each others from time to time he sent it to me.

i know he wouldn’t mind posting this PM, he is cool, i thought to share it to let people know that in politics there are always a group of people who are called the silent majority those who vote keep their opinion and their vote a secret for themselves, and they have many reason for doing so (sometimes)  yea tell me about it myself would consider myself of this group, that is why i think that Quest1 has the guts to stand up for a lot of bullshit… and keep on.

anyways Quest1 is American and this issue might touch him Personally as many others .. i myself have other things taking place at my country that i should worry about and i am taking part of something great the will take place 30th of June , this month, all the world will know about, i assure that much.


at last away from any ideological and religious visions or views why would any guy would want to marry another when there are sooo many beautiful women and also different from each others all around the world  Tongue

     
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I agree with AdorableMogwai.

Also, what really concerns me is that someone could be blackballed in an industry because of their political beliefs. I’ve heard that it is sometimes a problem in Hollywood, for example. Apparently it is sometimes okay to be vocal about political opinions, but only if you hold the approved views.

I also noticed that an editor of this site had taken to referring to TenNapel as “controversial.” Ok, fine. But would someone be deemed controversial if they loudly proclaimed their support for marriage redefinition? Or is TenNapel just controversial because many people who disagree with him wanted to make a big deal out of his expressing opinions and link his opinions to his work, in an attempt to damage his career and reputation? Does the reaction to his comments say more about TenNapel or the people who are attacking him and trying to harm him with smears?

I have been heartened to see fair, principled people, whether they agree with TenNapel or not, here and on various sites defending TenNapel’s right to not be smeared and demonized for stating an opinion that reasonable people can disagree on.

And some good news: the Armikrog Kickstarter is almost half-way to its goal after about a week. If you haven’t already, I recommend you check it out and consider pledging. This really looks to be a special adventure game.

     
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To Advie:

Thanks for note! I was sure everyone hated me and that I had cemented my position as the villain of the forum or something. :-)

I do feel like it is important to speak up for what you think is right. I understand the feeling of not wanting to have people turn on you, so I never discuss political issues in my professional setting or with certain friends if I know they will have a terrible, adverse reaction. But I really do wish people could just be mature enough and accept that others will hold different views. I’ve had to bite my tongue so much, but it is always a nice surprise to find a like-minded person.

As for the June 30th thing, I am scared for your safety!

     
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People have a right to say whatever they feel about TenNapel, if that’s their opinion.  Their opinion could be wrong, but in this case - it’s not entirely baseless.  He’s said some controversial things that will most definitely rub some people the wrong way, and it’s their right (just as it is as much his right to say the,) to disagree with him.  I must re-iterate what I’ve often said these days:  Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from criticism.

I do hope Armikrog is successful, and I think it will be - it looks amazing, and he is a very talented artist and game creator.  Earthworm Jim and The Neverhood are two of the most amazing games from the past 20 years, and I think Armikrog is going to be really fun.  I also think that TenNapel is a bit short-sighted and myopic in his views, but they are how he feels and he owns that - that’s respectable.  The world will continue on and change, regardless of how he feels.  I think, though, that the decision to support Armikrog depends on the feelings and wishes of the person donating, and if they choose not to support it, that doesn’t necessarily mean their smearing him or wishing doom on the project.


Bt

     
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And what about this , are people going to stop supporting Tim also because he supports
Doug (you know anyone can make secret premature assumption about Tim’s backing it)

So Tim and Doug think alike or Tim is just broadminded?

Tongue

     
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Quest1 - 06 June 2013 07:53 AM

As for the June 30th thing, I am scared for your safety!

 

Thanks man, but i just a number! ..of more than 15 millions and maybe more..
this is our last chance, the brotherhood has gone so far , there a risk of losing the Nile, no one ever thought it would get to this, in less than one year they did more damage to Egypt that never happened before.

     

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AdorableMogwai - 06 June 2013 07:11 AM

I just hope the Kickstarter for Armikrog doesn’t fail because of this. Maybe the big games publishers are trying to make him seem so anti-gay because they want the kickstarter to fail so people will spend more money on their games instead.

Yeah…..right. That’s probably what’s happening here.

Advie - 06 June 2013 07:16 AM

at last away from any ideological and religious visions or views why would any guy would want to marry another when there are sooo many beautiful women and also different from each others all around the world

Seriously? Cause it’s the way he was born? Why do you want to marry a woman if there are so many beautiful guys around?

Quest1 - 06 June 2013 07:41 AM

for stating an opinion that reasonable people can disagree on.

I don’t like the campaign against Doug, but this is were you are simply wrong.
Gay marriage is something that you simply don’t “like” and feel uncomfortable about and I have yet to hear a good reasonable point against it. You are quick to say how you and Doug respect homosexuals, but one sentence away both of you brand them as inferior, not worthy of marriage and unfit to raise kids.
the “holy” matrimony as an exclusive family model is long gone, especially in the US of A. So why demand standards from gay families that many “real” families don’t meet?

To sum it up: You are feeling uncomfortable about gay marriage and that’s why you’d rather see them denied those rights.  That’s not reasonable, that’s the exact definition of bigotry.

 

 

     
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Blackthorne: but is it simply “fair” and “warranted” criticism to smear TenNapel as a “bigot” who “supports hate”? Of course people are free to criticize, but why stay silent about the kinds of disgusting smear tactics some are using against him? We are also free to criticize the vile attacks, after all. Look what the first suggested Google search phrase is when you Google “Doug TenNapel.” Would you also throw up your hands and say “oh, well, people are free to criticize” if there were an organized effort to brand a supporter of gay rights in an outrageous, vile way such as “he supports perverts who are more likely to molest young boys, so we must reject this evil man who condones child rape!”? You know, it is okay to show a little courage and principle now and then and denounce disgusting attacks against someone you might not always see eye-to-eye with.

To Advie: it is terrible what has happened to your country in the last two years. Several countries in that region seem to be going in a troubling direction, and hopefully things change. I still think you should stay away from crowds on June 30th because I’d be concerned for your safety!

Shnubble: you’re putting words in my mouth. You misstate what TenNapel expressed and also what I said here. If you are going to mischaracterize and then call someone a bigot for disagreeing with you on this issue, then it is hardly worth having a conversation with you about it.

     
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Shnubble - 06 June 2013 08:25 AM
Advie - 06 June 2013 07:16 AM

at last away from any ideological and religious visions or views why would any guy would want to marry another when there are sooo many beautiful women and also different from each others all around the world

Seriously? Cause it’s the way he was born? Why do you want to marry a woman if there are so many beautiful guys around?

 

Fuck you

     

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Advie - 06 June 2013 07:16 AM

at last away from any ideological and religious visions or views why would any guy would want to marry another when there are sooo many beautiful women and also different from each others all around the world

Seriously? I cant tell if this is sarcasm or not?

     
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Sarcasm ... i added the tongue
and not directed to any

     

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