• Log In | Sign Up

  • News
  • Reviews
  • Games Database
  • Game Discovery
  • Search
  • New Releases
  • Forums
continue reading below

Adventure Gamers - Forums

Welcome to Adventure Gamers. Please Sign In or Join Now to post.

You are here: HomeForum Home → Other → Chit Chat → Thread

Post Marker Legend:

  • New Topic New posts
  • Old Topic No new posts

Currently online

Adv_Lvr

Support us, by purchasing through these affiliate links

   

Should support of an artist be influenced by their beliefs/attitudes?

Avatar

Total Posts: 358

Joined 2013-03-14

PM

This book nicely describes the kind of rhetorical (and other forms of) intimidation that I am talking about:  http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/1476709998/ref=mw_dp_mdsc?dsc=1

For example: don’t agree with Obama? Must be a racist! Support definition of marriage? Evil, hate-supporting bigot!

I can’t stand to see anyone bullied, and would stick up for anyone being targeted because of their sexual orientation, race, looks, etc. It disturbs me to see some gay activists willing to be such horrible bullies themselves.

     

Total Posts: 117

Joined 2010-12-09

PM

*PHEW* I was reading through my iPad on READER…it doesn’t load emoticons!

     
Avatar

Total Posts: 619

Joined 2012-06-06

PM

Quest1 - the first response to googling Doug TenNapel when I google him is his Wikipedia page.

People say all kinds of crap about other people - doesn’t always mean they’re right.  And you whining about a “smear campaign” just makes you look like a whiny, weak supporter.  If you really care and support him, you don’t give a crap about what others say, especially if you feel their attack is without merit or reason.  Acknowledging it, confronting it and whining about it only gives it attention and credence.

Bt

     
Avatar

Total Posts: 177

Joined 2006-03-28

PM

Quest1 - 06 June 2013 09:03 AM

For example: don’t agree with Obama? Must be a racist! Support definition of marriage? Evil, hate-supporting bigot!

You forgot a couple examples:

Support Occupy Wall Street? Must be a whiny layabout who just wants stuff from the government! Support gun control? Elitist snob who wants to take away all our rights!

Personally I’m a social liberal who strongly believes that everyone should be treated equally. I am literally bamboozled about why anyone feels that a man marrying another man or a woman marrying another woman has any impact on them or their marriage. I know people against gay marriage who have tried to explain it and it doesn’t make any sense at all to me. When I disagree with someone I always try to at least understand where the other side is coming from but I just don’t get this one.

That said, Doug’s political views would not stop me from investing in his game if I had any interest in it (which I don’t) but I don’t blame anyone who chooses otherwise. They are entitled to conduct themselves according to their own belief system. I also believe that they are entitled to express how they feel just as Quest1 is entitled to do the same in defense and I respect him for his passionate position even if I totally disagree with him. Some of the speculations about Doug do seem to have crossed the line as well. I hope that we can stick to the facts when having this discussion.

     
Avatar

Total Posts: 1235

Joined 2013-03-31

PM

The way I see it, “supporting the traditional definition of marriage” is a tacit acceptance of bigotry against gays.  There’s no way to separate the two, at least not without jumping through some serious rationalization hoops.  “Bigot” and “hate” have become buzz words nowadays, and no one wants to be associated with them.  So people get terribly defensive when you point out that their views, despite their noble claims, perpetuate stereotypes, bigotry, and yes, even “hate.”  If you aren’t actively condemning discrimination, you are tacitly supporting it.  In some states, if you see a crime being committed and you do nothing, you are criminally liable.  This is the same idea.

     

Total Posts: 180

Joined 2012-01-08

PM

@Advie: Your little comment was stupid either way. And thanks for the kind reaction.

@Quest1:  “Not wanting to change what marriage means is not necessarily anti-gay.”

These are your words. And yes, that wish is effectively anti-gay, because they are denied a right. (I totally respect black people, but they should ride in the back of the bus, please. Doesn’t hurt them, or does it? I mean they used to be slaves, how can they seriously complain about sitting on a different seat? After all they get to ride the bus just like we do! )

You might argue that you only want to protect marriage against all kinds of threats, not gay marriage specifically, but then I’d liked to know what that threat is exactly that’s exclusive to gay marriages and not long since present in today’s families.

Doug on the other hand went further than that and used very unfortunate words.
Again, I’m not for a campaign against him, but your portrayal of the situation isn’t accurate either, in my opinion.

“what are we gaining with this societal change, what are we losing?”

Yes, what are your loosing?  (That’s not already lost)
And how about the fact that “they” will be gaining something? 

     
Avatar

Total Posts: 1249

Joined 2012-02-17

PM

Time to restore this thread to its original purpose. If you want to argue gay marriage issues, feel free to start up a new thread expressly for that purpose.

No, this doesn’t mean a few “last word” posts on the subject. And no, it doesn’t mean tacking an “on-topic” line at the end of a gay marriage rant (one way or the other). Keep the two issues separate from now on. 

I’m as guilty as anyone for derailing it, but time to get it back on track.

And whatever the topic, if you can’t keep it civil, you won’t be around to see how it ends.

 

 

     

Editor-in-Chief, some obscure little site called Adventure Gamers

Avatar

Total Posts: 1235

Joined 2013-03-31

PM

Is discussion of the controversial beliefs of the artist in question really a full-fledged derailment though?  It’s all kind of within the same topical orbit, isn’t it?  Aside from the personal attacks, I mean.  Smile

     
Avatar

Total Posts: 7985

Joined 2011-10-21

PM

Lambonius - 06 June 2013 11:09 AM

Is discussion of the controversial beliefs of the artist in question really a full-fledged derailment though?  It’s all kind of within the same topical orbit, isn’t it?  Aside from the personal attacks, I mean.  Smile

What artist in question? Have you checked the thread title? Wink

I’ll quote myself from earlier today:

TimovieMan - 06 June 2013 06:32 AM

Even though this entire thread was created because of a couple of TenNapel’s statements, it’s about a more general thought than the specific examples that were given throughout.
Maybe we should focus more on where we draw the line for ourselves (with artists in general) without devolving this into smear campaigns against artists with controversial viewpoints?

     

Last played: Marvel’s Spider-Man - 4.5/5 | Freddi Fish 3: The Case of the Stolen Conch Shell - 3/5 | There Is No Game: Wrong Dimension (CPT) - 4/5 | There Is No Game (replay) - 4/5 | Broken Sword: The Shadow of the Templars (replay) - 3/5 | Lighthouse: The Dark Being (CPT) - 2.5/5 | Anna’s Quest (CPT) - 4.5/5 | Simon the Sorcerer II: The Lion, the Wizard and the Wardrobe - 4/5 | Florence - 4/5 | Alice Trapped in Wonderland - 1/5 | The Hunt for the Lost Ship - 1.5/5 | The Talos Principle - 4/5 | Tex Murphy: Martian Memorandum - 3/5 | Danganronpa: Trigger Happy Havoc - 3/5 | Simon the Sorcerer (replay) - 4/5 | Portal 2 - 4/5 | Murder By Numbers - 3.5/5 | Heavy Rain - 3.5/5 | Disco Elysium - 4.5/5 | Freddi Fish 2: The Case of the Haunted Schoolhouse - 3/5

Avatar

Total Posts: 1235

Joined 2013-03-31

PM

TimovieMan - 06 June 2013 11:37 AM

What artist in question? Have you checked the thread title? Wink

I’ll quote myself from earlier today:

TimovieMan - 06 June 2013 06:32 AM

Even though this entire thread was created because of a couple of TenNapel’s statements, it’s about a more general thought than the specific examples that were given throughout.
Maybe we should focus more on where we draw the line for ourselves (with artists in general) without devolving this into smear campaigns against artists with controversial viewpoints?

Heh.  Fair enough.  Smile

     

Total Posts: 7

Joined 2006-06-20

PM

I was not sure about how religion is viewed on these boards, but since the Israel/Palestine conflict - and Gary Glitter etc.- are mentioned in the thread, I’d give it a go. I’ve found the ending (all three of the endings) of the Shivah offensive, because the Rabbi clearly does not want his daugther (I think was his daugther?) to marry a gentile, a non-jew. And since this goes against my own personal philosophy that race and skin colour shouldn’t really matter when it comes to matters of the heart (love), I decided not to buy any more games from Wadjet Eye Games. And even if the message perhaps weren’t clear as crystal, it still permeated through the actions the Shivah took in all three endings.

I have no problem with violence, romance options, or even thhe player acting as child killer in Fallout 2 (I think it was Fallout 2?). Because, the player will experience harsh consequences for playing the game this way. I do have a problem with games that portray violence as a means of the only way to solve a conflict, but I solve this problem simply doing this: I don’t buy those types of games. I’m not buying games like the new God of War either because as I understand it you get to very naturalistic and realistic scenes when someone rips an eyeball out of another person’s skull. I don’t like those types of games, so I don’t buy them.

As for my questions about actor/actresses, let’s make it a playwright then. Was Orson Welles a lousier director because he turned out to be gay? Or was the Norwegian writer Knut Hamsun a lousier writer because he had a fascination of fascism/nazism and Hitler?
And should we not read Knut Hamsun anymore?

Let me give you another example: A history professor at a university openly supported Albania in the 1970’s and the 1980’s.(he was a communist and a stalinist) Since the he has written a series of very informative - and popular - history books about the history of his country. Should we not read those? Because he was - and maybe still is - a stalinist in his heart? (not based on an actual history professor…..this is just an example to open up the discussion).

Let me give you another example:
I can enjoy the Star Troopers movie, even though I know they’re based on a right wing writer’s novels. I can also enjoy the operas of Puccini, even though I know that he probably had many love affairs with other women - even though he was married. As the homosexual thing, I have no problem with people not liking homosexuals or bisexuals nor do I have any beef/trouble with people who don’t want gay people to be married. They do have a right to express their opinion as I - and others - have the right to express ours.
I still reserve the right to not buy games books, see movies or plays made by people who expresses an opinion which I don’t share. E.g. I don’t see movies - or buy moviedvds - when the theme is revenge….i.e. Stieg Larsson’s books….(the girl who played with fire) and other such works…

 

     
Avatar

Total Posts: 619

Joined 2012-06-06

PM

The Rabbi had a problem with an interfaith marriage between Lauder and Rajshree - and one of the endings implies that his heart is changing on this issues, as she joins his synagogue.


Bt

     
Avatar

Total Posts: 473

Joined 2008-01-09

PM

aries323 - 06 June 2013 02:23 PM

I’ve found the ending (all three of the endings) of the Shivah offensive, because the Rabbi clearly does not want his daugther (I think was his daugther?) to marry a gentile, a non-jew.


Or was the Norwegian writer Knut Hamsun a lousier writer because he had a fascination of fascism/nazism and Hitler? should we not read Knut Hamsun anymore?

Heaven forbid we should boycott Wadjet Eye Games and Dave Gilbert, a Jew, because he portrayed a Rabbi wanting his daughter to marry a Jew.  How horrible!!!  Then you attempt to justify reading the works of an author that is a Nazi sympathizer?

You can boycott whoever you like, but I think you have issues that go way beyond the basic premise of this topic.


Edit:  Thank you Blackthorne for posting what really transpired in the game.  Never played it.  Point still remains the same.

     
Avatar

Total Posts: 619

Joined 2012-06-06

PM

You know, someone mentioned way earlier a bit about supporting people that support others.  I do often check that before I support a KS project.  I tend to want to support people who have helped others when they needed it.


Bt

     
Avatar

Total Posts: 1249

Joined 2012-02-17

PM

Apparently some people can’t read, so any posts that attempted to carry on the gay marriage discussion (and of course the same hostility) are gone now.  Don’t say you weren’t warned. Start a new thread if you can’t contain yourself.

Blackthorne - 06 June 2013 04:02 PM

You know, someone mentioned way earlier a bit about supporting people that support others.  I do often check that before I support a KS project.  I tend to want to support people who have helped others when they needed it.

It’s a valid consideration, though of course one must be very careful about jumping to conclusions. The implication of the previous post was that Doug TenNapel was more generous than Tim Schafer because Pencil Test Studios has backed several projects and Double Fine had backed none. That completely ignores the fact that TenNapel doesn’t work for Pencil Test, and that Double Fine is a company of 50-plus people, and has no bearing on what any of its individual staffers might be contributing personally.

 

     

Editor-in-Chief, some obscure little site called Adventure Gamers

You are here: HomeForum Home → Other → Chit Chat → Thread

Welcome to the Adventure Gamers forums!

Back to the top