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Saint Kotar

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cyfoyjvx - 17 June 2020 08:42 AM
Veovis - 17 June 2020 05:34 AM

Having watched the trailer I can’t really say that either the VA or writing is particularly bad. It may suffer a bit from the Black Mirror syndrome, where the voice doesn’t fit the character, but like Chrissie I won’t judge the game’s qualities based on a short trailer.

That’s not to say I think we should hold back on criticism of indie games on the forum. The problem as I see it is that many indie developers themselves have threads about their own games on the forums, making it hard for most people to really be straight about what they think. I think announcements, development reports, requests for feedback and such belong on the main site or at least in a separate forum for developers. Heck, there are many threads here that are started by the developer and where all or most following posts are made by him- or herself. Frankly I’m a bit tired of this.

I agree. I think the problem with threads like these is they are so curated and tended to by the developers that they are seen as the developer’s ‘property’ or exclusive domain, and therefore any commentary that is even slightly negative is seen as some sort of attack. Which goes against the idea of a forum. If developers are willing to post threads about their game, they should be prepared for things they might not want to hear about their game.

About trailers: A trailer is meant to give a reasonable indication of what a game is like. Otherwise why make it? If it’s not possible to comment on the quality of a game from a trailer, then the trailer is useless and should not have been made.

If I could like this post a thousand times I would thank you. There are a lot of threads that are started by developers on the site that go nowhere, bc the game looks subpar, but let’s be honest the ones that are actually interesting to us do have an active Community like gibbous.

As far as trailers go,people make judgments off trailers all the time, as I pointed out in another post. people base whether or not they’re going to see a movie off of trailers and have so for over 50 yrs. Also as I pointed out a bad trailer actually doesn’t mean a game is going to be bad or movie is going to be bad, but you base your decision on what they have shown, you’re either in or out on the product. I do think the idea of having to give every single game an hour of play time to make up your mind is kind of asinine.

Also to carry this tangent out even further I would say trailers are even more important to the adventure game genre than other genres, bc most adventure game fans value the story and characters just as much or even more than the gameplay. so a story based trailer means far more for a new broken sword game, than it would for something like dark souls, or gran tursimo bc most gamers dont play those games for the story, but the gameplay. So a bad adventure game trailer can do some damage to interest in that said game. Take the last of us 2 for example, fans are in an uproar about what they do with the story, and are not even talking about gameplay right now,bc to most of those fans the story of the last of us 2 is way more important than the gameplay.

     
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cyfoyjvx - 17 June 2020 08:42 AM

About trailers: A trailer is meant to give a reasonable indication of what a game is like. Otherwise why make it? If it’s not possible to comment on the quality of a game from a trailer, then the trailer is useless and should not have been made.

Fair enough. I guess what I meant to say was that this particular trailer doesn’t discourage me from trying out the demo when it arrives. Neither does it indicate that it will be a great game.

     
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Veovis - 17 June 2020 09:37 AM
cyfoyjvx - 17 June 2020 08:42 AM

About trailers: A trailer is meant to give a reasonable indication of what a game is like. Otherwise why make it? If it’s not possible to comment on the quality of a game from a trailer, then the trailer is useless and should not have been made.

Fair enough. I guess what I meant to say was that this particular trailer doesn’t discourage me from trying out the demo when it arrives. Neither does it indicate that it will be a great game.

that is a fair statement. It did for me, along with the fact that the game has gone through a lot of difficulties during the development process. I was really following the game bc it seemed up my alley, A serious detective game with some gabriel knight influence. But the more they showed the more I lost confidence and I finally said something. There was nothing I said that was meant to be hateful, but as I stated Im not going to pretend a game is perfect bc it is an indy title. I truly hope it does well and gamers who play it will enjoy it, I just wont be one of them.

     

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Voice acting and writing are really a deal-breaker here, just terrible.

Too bad some quite beautiful background art will be wasted here.

     
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VoodooDerina - 17 June 2020 09:56 PM

Voice acting and writing are really a deal-breaker here, just terrible.

Too bad some quite beautiful background art will be wasted here.

Why are you being so negative and hateful lol jk. Exactly the backgrounds look amazing, im also not a fan of how the characters and animations look.

     

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Just being honest, it’s always better than to live in delusion and lie.

Development team may take notice and do something about it before it’s too late, but I guess it already is now, unfortunately.

     
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VoodooDerina - 18 June 2020 12:00 AM

Just being honest, it’s always better than to live in delusion and lie.

Development team may take notice and do something about it before it’s too late, but I guess it already is now, unfortunately.

  I was making a joke because that’s exactly what I said about a page back and I got told I must have hatred for the game and the development team bc i spoke negatively about the game

     
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For what’s it worth, I’ve been playing the demo, Yellow Mask, for a bit. If anything, the voice acting is a bit overly dramatic in the demo. This, in turn, is enhanced by the script which feels almost a tad archaic in nature. The dialogue doesn’t flow with ease, as it has a feel of being taken from a 19th-century book. In a sense, it reads better than it sounds.

I do think it might be because the script was written by a non-native English speaker. I could be wrong about it, but it does have the kinds of clumsiness I find from my own writings as well. Also, at times the script does feel like something someone went through with a thesaurus to make the writing feel grander than it is.

All that said, it is nice that the game has a hotspot indicator. There is some pixel-hunting going on in it. It has some old school vibes all over the game design.

     
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tomimt - 18 June 2020 05:22 AM

For what’s it worth, I’ve been playing the demo, Yellow Mask, for a bit. If anything, the voice acting is a bit overly dramatic in the demo. This, in turn, is enhanced by the script which feels almost a tad archaic in nature. The dialogue doesn’t flow with ease, as it has a feel of being taken from a 19th-century book. In a sense, it reads better than it sounds.

I do think it might be because the script was written by a non-native English speaker. I could be wrong about it, but it does have the kinds of clumsiness I find from my own writings as well. Also, at times the script does feel like something someone went through with a thesaurus to make the writing feel grander than it is.

All that said, it is nice that the game has a hotspot indicator. There is some pixel-hunting going on in it. It has some old school vibes all over the game design.


I hope you are enjoying the game though. I looked at the forum on their steam page and the first three topics were all messages about problems with the story, and puzzle design.

     
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tomimt - 18 June 2020 05:22 AM

For what’s it worth, I’ve been playing the demo, Yellow Mask, for a bit. If anything, the voice acting is a bit overly dramatic in the demo. This, in turn, is enhanced by the script which feels almost a tad archaic in nature. The dialogue doesn’t flow with ease, as it has a feel of being taken from a 19th-century book. In a sense, it reads better than it sounds.

I do think it might be because the script was written by a non-native English speaker. I could be wrong about it, but it does have the kinds of clumsiness I find from my own writings as well. Also, at times the script does feel like something someone went through with a thesaurus to make the writing feel grander than it is.

I recognise what you’re saying - I don’t know how far into the demo you got but certainly for me the va made better sense & calmed down as I went along. The ‘archaic’ nature of the script seemed to fit with the theme to start with & I’m not sure that translation was a problem. I only picked up one perceived error but was it? - it may have been deliberate.

All that said, it is nice that the game has a hotspot indicator. There is some pixel-hunting going on in it. It has some old school vibes all over the game design.

Yes! so if you’re not a fan of the game-play in e.g. Black Mirror, Secret Files: Tunguska & similar ilk games from the early 2000’s this game’s not for you.

Jdawg445 - 18 June 2020 06:27 AM


I hope you are enjoying the game though. I looked at the forum on their steam page and the first three topics were all messages about problems with the story, and puzzle design.

Well that’s just an interpretation of one person who got stuck & another of someone who didn’t get/like the subtleties of the intro (I couldn’t find a third message.)

Personally, I think the developers are smart to release the prologue for free to make sure some problems can be ironed out - one of the problems I had was prolonged loading times between some scenes which presented as a black screen for just a tad too long.
Otherwise although I haven’t quite finished this unusual prologue, for me it’s done a great job of setting up an atmosphere, a feeling of paranoia & given enough info via dialogue to intrigue me enough to want to play more. 
Smile

     
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chrissie - 18 June 2020 09:24 AM
tomimt - 18 June 2020 05:22 AM

For what’s it worth, I’ve been playing the demo, Yellow Mask, for a bit. If anything, the voice acting is a bit overly dramatic in the demo. This, in turn, is enhanced by the script which feels almost a tad archaic in nature. The dialogue doesn’t flow with ease, as it has a feel of being taken from a 19th-century book. In a sense, it reads better than it sounds.

I do think it might be because the script was written by a non-native English speaker. I could be wrong about it, but it does have the kinds of clumsiness I find from my own writings as well. Also, at times the script does feel like something someone went through with a thesaurus to make the writing feel grander than it is.

I recognise what you’re saying - I don’t know how far into the demo you got but certainly for me the va made better sense & calmed down as I went along. The ‘archaic’ nature of the script seemed to fit with the theme to start with & I’m not sure that translation was a problem. I only picked up one perceived error but was it? - it may have been deliberate.

All that said, it is nice that the game has a hotspot indicator. There is some pixel-hunting going on in it. It has some old school vibes all over the game design.

Yes, but if you’re not a fan of the game-play in e.g. Black Mirror, Secret Files: Tunguska & similar ilk games from the early 2000’s this game’s not for you.

Jdawg445 - 18 June 2020 06:27 AM


I hope you are enjoying the game though. I looked at the forum on their steam page and the first three topics were all messages about problems with the story, and puzzle design.

Well that’s just an interpretation of one person who got stuck & another of someone who didn’t get/like the subtleties of the intro (I couldn’t find a third message.)

Personally, I think the developers are smart to release the prologue for free to make sure some problems can be ironed out - one of the problems I had was prolonged loading times between some scenes which presented as a black screen for just a tad too long.
Otherwise although I haven’t quite finished this unusual prologue, for me it’s done a great job of setting up an atmosphere, a feeling of paranoia & given enough info via dialogue to intrigue me enough to want to play more. 
Smile

This is the 3rd post on steam i quoted it.

They allude to a lot of events that just happens off screen. It comes off as forced exposition when it could have been a much more compelling introduction than how the story really starts (well after the I have no mouth and I must scream-esque intro).

I want to know these characters better, but I feel left out just being told these character moments through text rather than experiencing it.

I hope you guys reach your goal but I can’t help but lose interest after this odd ball of an introduction.

 

As far as the bugs they are responding quickly on Steam to try to fix them but at the same time they’ve spent years on just a demo and for it to have this many bugs is not a good sign especially when they’re going to be asking for your money afterwards to fund the full game.

I know you think I’m lying here but I’m glad you enjoyed the game I hope anybody and everybody enjoys a game they want to but so far it seems a lot of players are having problems with it whether it be puzzle design or narrative-based

     
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When since did one or two people amount to lots? And you don’t need to quote the narrative from the person from Steam again - I’ve already read it thanks. (Btw, the arrangement of your quotes is all over the place)

I’ve made up my own mind up from what I’ve seen so far which I like a lot & the developers seem quite focused & dedicated - I’ll go with that until its proved otherwise.

     
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chrissie - 18 June 2020 09:52 AM

When since did one or two people amount to lots? And you don’t need to quote the narrative from the person from Steam again - I’ve already read it thanks. (Btw, sort the arrangement of your quotes out)

I’ve made up my own mind up from what I’ve seen so far which I like a lot & the developers seem quite focused & dedicated - I’ll go with that until its proved otherwise.


My quotes were separated fine and like I said I’m glad you like the game. I can only go by what’s on their steam page and so far since the game came out people complain about puzzle issues, narrative issues and technical issues including subtitle problems and audio bugs… but enjoy your purchase.


Although I do find it funny that somebody like you who’s always sunshine and rainbows about indy games even admits that if you don’t like early 2000 games you will most likely dislike this game LOL

     
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Jdawg445 - 18 June 2020 10:02 AM

Although I do find it funny that somebody like you who’s always sunshine and rainbows about indy games even admits that if you don’t like early 2000 games you will most likely dislike this game LOL

I’ve followed Adventure games for many years & as such have paid attention to the criticisms that have been thrown at them - Saint Kotar fits into a category of games (which I like actually!) that have been on the receiving end & I hope that by mentioning that it would be helpful to potential players to decide whether they want to play it or not & stay away from a thread like this if they don’t! The word ‘admits’ is not a relevant word to do with what I said but from what I know yes, if you don’t like earlier games that use similar game-play you will most likely dislike this one.   

     
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Chrissie, thanks for the kind words and support! It really gives a nice boost of confidence to see your words.

Jdawg445, seems like you have some issues with us. Or not? Did we hurt you because we didn’t release the demo earlier? You jump to conclusions so fast and so easily that it’s really hard to have a normal discussion with you - as seen in the last few pages of this thread.

Fine, you don’t like the game. The, at the moment, 210 backers on Kickstarter think very very differently. In 14 hours we are almost 20% funded. Also, we received a ton of positive messages on social medias and in our mail boxes. People love Saint Kotar: The Yellow Mask.

You see those few comments on Steam as bad. Why would they be bad if they say they want to play the game and they like the prologue? Even if it’s not perfect and it has problems (perfect games don’t exist). And what about the good, positive comments and reviews on Steam? That form the vast majority, by the way.

We’d love to make a game that is perfect, but that is just not possible. You can’t expect to please everyone and this is not an ideal world - there are budgets, unexpected issues, and schedules.

Let’s be completely honest and transparent now. You know what our mistake was? Announcing the game too early, without the right knowledge to make a project like this. When we announced it we just had a great concept artist. We also worked remotely back then, and only in our spare time. The team that announced the game back then is long gone. Our real production began only a year ago. New team members came in and we started working in one place (we got ourselves an office). We cannot undone the mistakes from the past in terms of public relations but we can push harder to become better each day.

That period in the past was a great way, no matter how hard it was and how hard we landed on our heads, to learn game development. You have to pay the school, in one way or another. We paid it with our time, money and energy. Now we have a strong and established workflow and a good team. If you don’t want to give us a second chance by neat picking every single thing you find “unforgivable” (and it seems only by looking at comments on Steam?) then just cross the game and move on. Nobody is forcing you to like it. We’ll do fine on Kickstarter and in the end we’ll make a great full game.

     

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