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Is it art?

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Joined 2007-08-13

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Luhr28 asked me to share games I consider to be art after I claimed that quite a few games qualify as such. Others are much better equipped to argue about this, so I’m just going to list some adventure games that are more than “simple entertainment” to me. Feel free to share titles or thoughts on the subject.

Interactive fiction
Anchorhead, by Michael Gentry
Galatea, by Emily Short
Map, by Ade McT
Midnight. Swordfight., by Chandler Groover
Photopia, by Adam Cadre
Slouching Towards Bedlam, by star Foster and Daniel Ravipinto
Spider and Web, by Andrew Plotkin
The Wizard Sniffer, by Buster Hudson

Graphic adventures
The Dream Machine
Dear Esther
Kentucky Route Zero
The Last Express
Last Window: The Secret of Cape West
Return of the Obra Dinn
Samorost 3
The Stanley Parable

     
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Joined 2017-12-19

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I consider all games to be art. Thumbs Up

But based on what game critics and scholars usually think about, games like The Path are seen as more art than entertainment, if separating things into those two categories is meaningful in any sense.

http://tale-of-tales.com/ThePath/

     
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how all adventure games couldn’t be when every aspect of one is Art on their own, from the music, the writing, the artwork the animation and the design..

i know what you mean but those titles, but i am afraid the art the looks you straight in the eye cant be always more artistic than others.

     
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I agree that all games can be art, but my personal distinction would be more about how the game makes you think and feel. Obviously some games have incredible art styles that definitely are art by itself no matter what the story or gameplay is, but to me art is something that is truly thought-provoking and/or emotional. Art challenges me.

If comparing to movies, I don’t think most of those dumbed-down hit comedies are art. They are done with a pattern for success, not with a passion for art. When a product is made to just make money and maybe entertain while at it, it’s not really made in the spirit of art. But of course there is no clear line anywhere to be drawn.

     

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millenia - 11 April 2020 11:17 AM

but to me art is something that is truly thought-provoking and/or emotional. Art challenges me.

If comparing to movies, I don’t think most of those dumbed-down hit comedies are art. They are done with a pattern for success, not with a passion for art. When a product is made to just make money and maybe entertain while at it, it’s not really made in the spirit of art.

That of course is based on the assumption that art has to have some meaning, which is a viewpoint that is challenged by pop culture and pop arts, of which games can be seen to be a part of.

There are other views too, like socialist art interpretation that culminates in socialist realism, which is based on the idea that everything has a meaning and everything has an influence on the people.

If we are talking about movies, the entire art form was based on making money on meaningless things, such as Lumière Brothers’ Arrival of a Train. Movies with any meaningful content were a later development. To tie that to what I said previously, montage method was created by Sergei Eisenstein and others, most famously used in Battleship Potemkin, to create very strong and meaningful cuts in the film narrative.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_montage_theory

Even so, can we really say that in the following trio of legendary films Arrival of a Train, Battleship Potemkin, and Dumb and Dumber To, the last one is not art in any aspect, whereas the Soviet one always is, and the train thing… is? Or isn’t?

And what games, if any, can be seen as Battleship Potemkins of the game world? Half-Life?

     
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art doesn’t have to have any meaning to someone else but the one who makes it, he/she (artists) put their mind and space at what usually human do not go to, they surrender completely to the energy flowing within and interpret it into something materialistic other can have the privilege to experience too on some level, and whether it is meaningful or not it is only a matter of perspective,, but if whoever starts to aim before making art, must be completely sure it will only be a flop, fake if you want.

     
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Joined 2017-08-27

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I’d say “Stanley Parable” is more of a metaphysical satire, along with “Bucket Detective” - they are more of a narrative exploration.

“The Path” along with “The Void”, “Neverending Nightmares” are more along my personal view of “art games”.

I also think there might be two discussions wrapped up in one here - “games that are considered art” vs. “artsy games”... In the first category I can put a game like “The Cat Lady”, for example, which is definitely a work of art yet still is very much a game you can play in a traditional sense of this word. In the second category I’d put games that either largely left me completely puzzled with the uniqueness and lack of direction or absence of traditional gaming features, or completely abandoned all concepts of gameplay and just went to do their own thing. I actually don’t like those very much, and I really like art in non-gaming world.

What I find fascinating about art is that it’s entirely subjective. For example, there’s a game in development on Steam called “Genesis Noir” for which I tried a demo. Now this game is definitely “more art than game” in my opinion, and I know I won’t be playing it, but there are people on the forums that are absolutely stoked to try it. That allows for anyone find their audience and make something unique. It’s also very hard to say “this one is better than that one”, because that’s like arguing about tastes - not very productive…

For my part, I found that I prefer when different mediums stick, at least for the most part, to what they are known for. I’m an avid reader, but I don’t really like visual novels. I enjoy classic art and visit new installations frequently, but I don’t really like games that are so artistic, they forget to be an actual game. I like film (I work in film), but I don’t really go for games that look like a giant cut-scene with an occasional press of a button to “make a decision”... There are exceptions to all of the above, of course, but I find I enjoy all of those mediums when they are closer to their pure form.

     

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GateKeeper - 11 April 2020 12:43 PM
millenia - 11 April 2020 11:17 AM

but to me art is something that is truly thought-provoking and/or emotional. Art challenges me.

If comparing to movies, I don’t think most of those dumbed-down hit comedies are art. They are done with a pattern for success, not with a passion for art. When a product is made to just make money and maybe entertain while at it, it’s not really made in the spirit of art.

That of course is based on the assumption that art has to have some meaning, which is a viewpoint that is challenged by pop culture and pop arts, of which games can be seen to be a part of.

There are other views too, like socialist art interpretation that culminates in socialist realism, which is based on the idea that everything has a meaning and everything has an influence on the people.

If we are talking about movies, the entire art form was based on making money on meaningless things, such as Lumière Brothers’ Arrival of a Train. Movies with any meaningful content were a later development. To tie that to what I said previously, montage method was created by Sergei Eisenstein and others, most famously used in Battleship Potemkin, to create very strong and meaningful cuts in the film narrative.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_montage_theory

Even so, can we really say that in the following trio of legendary films Arrival of a Train, Battleship Potemkin, and Dumb and Dumber To, the last one is not art in any aspect, whereas the Soviet one always is, and the train thing… is? Or isn’t?

And what games, if any, can be seen as Battleship Potemkins of the game world? Half-Life?

I think it’s important to keep in mind the purpose of threads like these. They’re to help people out with games that those who played them found meaningful, in the hope that others may find them meaningful too. Of course, this is no guarantee since it depends on the individual, but it does work sometimes.

As for Half-Life - I never got what was supposed to be so great about this game. It’s a basic shooter which just happens to have a story. Adventure games had been doing stories for years. It wasn’t even a very interesting story.

     
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Joined 2017-08-15

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Creativity is a big factor in what makes something art. Gorogoa was incredibly creative and most would call it art, yet I haven’t found anyone who could tell me what it means.

     

Member of the NAALCB - (North American Anti- Lobster Cop Brigade) since 2019.

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Vehelon - 11 April 2020 06:53 PM

As for Half-Life - I never got what was supposed to be so great about this game. It’s a basic shooter which just happens to have a story. Adventure games had been doing stories for years. It wasn’t even a very interesting story.

It was how the story was told. The game was made very immersive by leaving out cutscenes, and having the story play in the game mode. Even during scenes when the player doesn’t have any real freedom to move, like in the opening scene riding the mine train, the player can turn around to see where the train is coming from rather than watching where it is going to.

Most adventure games have cutscenes, imagine Broken Sword beginning without that “Paris in the fall” thing and having that somehow told in the game mode, that’s basically what was great in Half-Life.

As for the story, it really wasn’t so special in Half-Life, although the sequels that followed, Opposing Force and Blue Shift were interesting takes on telling basically what happened to other people in the same place at the same time. And of course modding of Half-Life is another story, with Counter-Strike and all that, but that has nothing to do with any narratives. Nonetheless, Half-Life is a landmark game in video game storytelling.

     
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You’d have to define what you mean by art before I can give you examples.

My general take is to include most everything in the term “art”, since it seems silly to claim that things are no longer art (or games, or music) because I don’t like them. I see that kind of thing happen way to often in discussions like this one. And arguing about which games to call art is pointless without an agreed definition of the term.

I’ll instead go to music: John Cage’s “4:33” is music (though some definitions of the term will exclude it), and so is the latest mass produced crap on the radio (I’ll avoid picking a specific example because that’s beside the point). I’d also include all music as a sub-category of art, which means that the mass produced crap is also art.

     

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Sure, games like Last Window: The Secret of Cape West can be defined as art because they are beautiful to look at. This game has an artistic style to it that you do enjoy looking at, like a beautiful painting.

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I enjoy playing adventure games on my Alienware M17 r4 and my Nintendo Switch OLED.

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Is this thread necromancy? I just came across this conversation and I got really excited.

There are two discussions bouncing off one another and they are both great.

First, art. Some people automatically cringe at the question “What is art?”, but I love it. Whether you want to get personal or philosophical about it, or both, I’m there. It’s a good way of engaging with your own experiences, what you feel and value. It’s also fundamental in giving (the concept of) art value and meaning.

Talk about art, it’s good for you and for art, is what I mean.

The second topic is meaningful experience. Games that are more than casual entertainment to you. There was a time when I’d argue to keep these ideas (art/meaningful experience) separated. Engaging with art can be a rather dry and intellectual excersise, not all art touches the heart, so to speak. And there are parts of the ‘Actual Art World’ that are.. maybe not all that great and/or deep. The idea that (currently) entertainment is for $$ and art is for a higher cause is debatable. Art as the pinnacle of everything creates a hierarchy that (imo) is a disservice to everything else.

So, art in relation to games. Games that don’t aim to entertain are often called art-games. I think GateKeeper’s point about movies ties into this. Going by Pegbiter’s post and Vehelon’s conlusion, I might be going a bit off topic, so I won’t go further down that rabbit hole. But I thought it was interesting: this notion of entertainment v art, how they become seperated, if/how they can connect.

Moving/meaningful games! I will check out the suggestions, I’ve played the “The Stanley Parable”, know of the Obra Dinn-game and the rest is new to me.

I really liked “Golem Creation Kit”. It’s a well thought out, really creative game - the writing, in particular, is amazing. It connected with me. Maybe not the moved-to-tears-variety, but human connection can come in many different forms. I felt this game. And it made me think.

I’m currently playing Riven. I would say this is a work of art. Or a piece of art. Or a piece of work. It was a gift from an old friend and it’s been a good way to (re)connect. I can tell this game is very significant to him and he has engaged with it in a meaningful way. I think it’s quite nice that he wants to share that experience with me and I think that’s more or less what this thread is about.

     

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