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Lady Kestrel

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Do we need a new name for our genre? 

Total Posts: 24

Joined 2003-12-26

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I wanted to discuss the problems I have with the name “Adventure Game”. Perhaps not just with the name, but also with the definition of this genre itself.

According to the wikipedia article, the name is historical, originating from the first game whose name was “Adventure”. This on its own is a bit problematic. It’s like if all FPS games were called “Wolfenstein games”. However, if this was the only thing bothering me I wouldn’t have bothered starting this thread Smile

One problem, is that the name implies a protagonist “going out on an adventure”. While it’s true that many classic adventure games (King’s Quest, Grim Fandango, Longest Journey) involve the protagonist setting out on an adventure, many both modern and classic games don’t (“Police Quest”, “Heavy Rain”). This makes the name sound very strange and inappropriate for these games.

A second problem, is that the name is overloaded and often used to mean different things. Many video game websites refer to action-adventure games (like Uncharted, Tomb Raider etc.) as “Adventure Games”. This makes this name pretty much unusuable outside of the adventure game community, since you can never know if the second person means the same thing as you.

Even within our community, adventure game can mean many different things. Is the definition of adventure games, like the wikipedia article implies, relies on the gameplay mechanic? If so - what gameplay defines an “adventure game”? Classically, you could say the game is defined by having inventory-based puzzles, but that’s not true for many modern adventures (and it already wasn’t true for classic adventures like “Loom” or “Manhunter”). So, what makes “Loom” still be an adventure game if it has no inventory?

Some like to define adventure games as lacking any action or quick reflex scenes, but that would also take out the “Space Quest” games as well as “Alone in the Dark”. Also, if you define adventure games just by lacking action scenes, you’d have to also include games like Sokoban.

So, in the end, you’re stuck with a super complex definition, like the one at the adventuregamers definition page, where you say an adventure game is (I’m paraphrasing) “a game that focuses on the story, usually lacks action scenes but not always, usually has puzzles but not always, and usually involves exploration but not always”. This sounds to me like a very roundabout way of saying “a game that focuses on the story”.

So, I suggest a new name to the genre: “Story-driven games”.

My definition - a game whose main objective is the storytelling. There may be other elements to the gameplay (inventory, dialog, shooting, running, jumping, etc.) but the main purpose of these elements is to assist in storytelling, making the player fill more deeply immersed and perhaps identify themselves with the main protagonist. This means any game where 20 bad guys attack you and you need to kill them one by one and it takes about 20 times to succeed without dying, would not be a “story-driven game”, or at least that scene would greatly detract from its chances of being one.
On the other hand, the same applies to a scene where you have 20 extremely hard inventory based puzzles which have nothing to do with the story of the game and are only there as an obstacle to slow you down on your way to the next scene.

So, yeah, I realize I’m talking about a new genre here which doesn’t have exactly the same set of games as the classic definition, but that’s the kind of games I like. Classic adventures just happen to be the most story-driven of all games that were out there at the time, but now it’s suddenly becoming more popular to be story-driven without having classic inventory gameplay, so we have games like Heavy Rain, Walking Dead and Amnesia out there.

Just as an example, the Uncharted games, offer a lot in the storytelling department (some scenes are amazing in how immersed they make you feel in the game’s world) but they are still too focused on the jumping, climbing, and shooting gameplay mechanic to really be called “story driven”. Amnesia, on the other hand, is definitely story driven.

I think these days we are divided into two sub-populations, one who still clings to the traditional gameplay mechanic (and always cringe at having games like “Amnesia” or “Portal” called adventure games), and second population which are simply story-driven games fans are are not as bothered with having actiony parts as long as they are the means and not the end.

So, who’s with me? When are we changing this site to http://www.storydrivengamers.com? :-)

     
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Total Posts: 4249

Joined 2005-04-14

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Matan - 09 July 2012 04:48 AM

I suggest a new name to the genre: “Story-driven games”.
So, who’s with me?

I’m not.

I don’t need a definition of it, I can tell an adventure game when I see/play one.

diego - 09 July 2012 04:57 AM

That would be like changing the word “Dog” to “Animal who is a men’s best friend and barks”.

I was just about to suggest that “horror movies” is also better than “head-chopping, throat-slashing, blood-squirting, chainsaw-wielding, blood-curdling movies”, but you beat me to it.

     

Everybody wants to be Cary Grant.
Even Me.

-Cary Grant

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Total Posts: 6584

Joined 2007-07-22

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That would be like changing the word “Dog” to “Animal who is a men’s best friend and barks”.

     

Recently finished: Four Last Things 4/5, Edna & Harvey: The Breakout 5/5, Chains of Satinav 3,95/5, A Vampyre Story 88, Sam Peters 3/5, Broken Sword 1 4,5/5, Broken Sword 2 4,3/5, Broken Sword 3 85, Broken Sword 5 81, Gray Matter 4/5\nCurrently playing: Broken Sword 4, Keepsake (Let\‘s Play), Callahan\‘s Crosstime Saloon (post-Community Playthrough)\nLooking forward to: A Playwright’s Tale

Total Posts: 24

Joined 2003-12-26

PM

More like changing the “dog lovers” club’s name to “fluffy animals lovers” to avoid having an argument every time on whether a review of a cat should really go on the club’s website or not.
(sorry for taking the analogy too far Smile )

     
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Joined 2005-06-02

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It would be more like changing the word “Dog” to “Animal on four legs who may bark or moo or mew”.

EDIT: The OP beat me to it.

     

Now playing: ——-
Recently finished: don’t remember
Up next:  Eh…
Looking forward to:
Ithaka of the Clouds; The Last Crown; all the kickstarter adventure games I supported

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Total Posts: 6584

Joined 2007-07-22

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But it wouldn’t - if you say “adventure”, you’re safe from going into details. If you say “story-driven games”, you’re missing out on puzzle-driven games. So, how about - “Both Story & Puzzle-driven games, but not necessarily”?

     

Recently finished: Four Last Things 4/5, Edna & Harvey: The Breakout 5/5, Chains of Satinav 3,95/5, A Vampyre Story 88, Sam Peters 3/5, Broken Sword 1 4,5/5, Broken Sword 2 4,3/5, Broken Sword 3 85, Broken Sword 5 81, Gray Matter 4/5\nCurrently playing: Broken Sword 4, Keepsake (Let\‘s Play), Callahan\‘s Crosstime Saloon (post-Community Playthrough)\nLooking forward to: A Playwright’s Tale

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Total Posts: 990

Joined 2009-05-08

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How about we just accept that some games aren’t adventure instead of latching onto mainstream titles in a sad attempt to appear relevant. There’s enough labels out there already to describe these games…

Amnesia is a survival horror game.
Portal 2 is a puzzle game.
The Walking Dead is a @#$% game.

     
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Joined 2005-08-12

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Matan - 09 July 2012 04:48 AM

So, yeah, I realize I’m talking about a new genre here which doesn’t have exactly the same set of games as the classic definition, but that’s the kind of games I like.

And there we go. Every time that people try to redefine adventure games in order to include or exclude certain games from the genre, their new definition inevitably boils down to “games I like”. At least you were able to recognise it, which is better than 90% of the people posting in those silly “definition” threads.

Of course, easily finding games we might like is the only reason why these definitions exist. The real question, then, is whether this new classification is more useful to people than the old one. In my personal case, it’s not. I’m not opposed to certain non-adventure elements, or playing completely different genres, but there are some gameplay elements that completely kill my enjoyment of the game, no matter how good, say, the story might be (for instance, playing Limbo recently has reminded me how much I hate platforming; no amount of puzzles or cute graphics or story-telling will ever help me get over my complete hatred of timed jumps and stuff like that).

Ultimately, I know I like “adventure games” (including many non-story-driven ones), but “story-driven game” does not tell me anything useful. And if story is really what I’m looking for, I’ll tend to turn to books/movies/TV shows rather than games, which at the end of the day I tend to define by their gameplay, i.e. what you’re actually doing when playing the game.

Obviously, there are some games, such as The Walking Dead, in which what you’re actually doing is exploring the story rather than solving puzzles or going through action sequences. But there are extremely few games like that — probably not enough to warrant getting a genre of their own.

Which I guess means I’m pretty satisfied with the current definition.

     
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Joined 2011-04-01

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Matan - 09 July 2012 04:48 AM

So, who’s with me? When are we changing this site to http://www.storydrivengamers.com? :-)

Not me. I’d sooner create a rival site named http://www.puzzledrivengamers.com in order to escape from the impending influx of games like To The Moon and The Walking Dead and other similarly puzzle-deprived “games”.
————————————————————
“Give me puzzles, or give me death!”
-Patrick Henry, 1775

     
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Joined 2007-11-28

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Matan - 09 July 2012 04:48 AM

So, who’s with me?

I am, in part. Even just for this:

Matan - 09 July 2012 04:48 AM

the name is overloaded and often used to mean different things. Many video game websites refer to action-adventure games (like Uncharted, Tomb Raider etc.) as “Adventure Games”. This makes this name pretty much unusuable outside of the adventure game community, since you can never know if the second person means the same thing as you.

(Emphasis mine)
This happens to me all the time. Someone asks me what kind of video games I like, I go “My favourite are definitely adventure games”, and they say something like “Oh yeah! Me too! I loved playing Skyrim”. At which point I usually reply that yes, I like RPGs too, but that’s not exactly what I meant, because Monkey Island and Indiana Jones and King’s Quest and bla-bla and this-and-that. Cue “you’re a nerd” looks.

About finding a new name, I’m not sure. “Story Driven” may be a fair descriptor, but I don’t think it makes a good genre name. The way I see it, there’s not much we can do. Unfortunately, it’s not about the name we use in the community. Among us, zobraks’ approach of “I know it when I see it” works fine. We all know an Adventure Game when we see it. We’re good. Problem is there’s few of us. It’s the reason why modern, pure, know-it-when-I-see-it Adventure Games tend to be all relatively low-budget.

If the demand for story-driven games were higher, more high-budget story-driven games would be developed, and they would be covered by Adventure game websites, and would be labeled “Adventure Games”, and would be put on the shelves next to games like “The Lost Crown” or “The Book of Unwritten Tales”. And people would start recognizing the term “Adventure Game” as that which we’re familiar with. But unfortunately that is not the case, and if we did force a redefinition, I doubt it would propagate that way we intend it to. It’s pretty much out of our hands. We’re stuck with the term “Adventure Games” meaning something completely different to most modern gamers than what we mean.

     
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Total Posts: 6584

Joined 2007-07-22

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That problem comes directly from having Action-adventure genre as said above, and also from the ambiguity nature of the word “adventure” - in RPG hero often goes on an “adventure”. They’re even sometimes “erroneously” called - RPG adventure, or FRP adventure.


Also, I feel that with people who’re not familiar with the genre, the term “point & click” might seem more recognizable than “adventure”. Like Lassie might sound more informal than collie dog. Grin

     

Recently finished: Four Last Things 4/5, Edna & Harvey: The Breakout 5/5, Chains of Satinav 3,95/5, A Vampyre Story 88, Sam Peters 3/5, Broken Sword 1 4,5/5, Broken Sword 2 4,3/5, Broken Sword 3 85, Broken Sword 5 81, Gray Matter 4/5\nCurrently playing: Broken Sword 4, Keepsake (Let\‘s Play), Callahan\‘s Crosstime Saloon (post-Community Playthrough)\nLooking forward to: A Playwright’s Tale

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Total Posts: 974

Joined 2007-02-23

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I usually just say I like point & click adventures and puzzle games. People can understand that.

One things for sure though, I don’t find story-driven games to be very usable at all. That simply implies that any game with a focus on a story somewhat is what you mean, and I certainly wouldn’t classify say Warcraft III as an adventure, which would be the case with this new definition, since there’s an emphasis on story even though it’s an RTS (with RPG elements none the less, the confusion of genres just keeps growing).

     
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Total Posts: 8471

Joined 2011-10-21

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Let’s keep the *old* definition. Anyone who even remotely calls himself a gamer knows what an adventure game is, and if they don’t then you can always school them in point-and-click and other games.

Besides, story-driven doesn’t fit the genre because it’s too broad. A lot of modern games are focusing heavily on story (most RPGs, Uncharted, even Bioshock etc.). You can’t name them ALL adventure games. Story-driven is an attribute of the adventure genre, not its definition.

ZeframCochrane - 09 July 2012 05:43 AM

Cue “you’re a nerd” looks.

Ever had to explain that you’re not a nerd, but a geek, and that there’s a difference? Tongue

     

The truth can’t hurt you, it’s just like the dark: it scares you witless but in time you see things clear and stark. - Elvis Costello
Maybe this time I can be strong, but since I know who I am, I’m probably wrong. Maybe this time I can go far, but thinking about where I’ve been ain’t helping me start. - Michael Kiwanuka

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Joined 2003-12-26

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“Point and Click” doesn’t really work, because it’s a definition based on the interface. It doesn’t encompass many new adventure games which are gamepad driven, and it doesn’t even include classic adventure games from the text parser era (ike King’s Quest 1-4 or Space Quest 1-3).

Actually, now that I think about it, “Interactive Fiction” would’ve been a nice name for our genre. Too bad it’s already taken by text adventures, right? Smile
Perhaps we can re-claim the right to that name..

     

Total Posts: 24

Joined 2003-12-26

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Kasper F. Nielsen - 09 July 2012 09:18 AM

I usually just say I like point & click adventures and puzzle games. People can understand that.

One things for sure though, I don’t find story-driven games to be very usable at all. That simply implies that any game with a focus on a story somewhat is what you mean, and I certainly wouldn’t classify say Warcraft III as an adventure, which would be the case with this new definition, since there’s an emphasis on story even though it’s an RTS (with RPG elements none the less, the confusion of genres just keeps growing).

The difference, in my opinion, is while warcraft 3 tells a story, it is not exactly story driven. As a player, you are too involved in the actual game mechanic (building up your base, watching it for intruders, fighting enemy units) to really be involved in the story, and the story is still mostly dropped on top of the gameplay (as if the designers tried to think “which story can we wrap around this gameplay mechanic”, instead of the other way around).

Same goes for Uncharted, which TimovieMan mentioned. I think it almost made it into my bin of “story-driven games”, but in the end you are still too much involved in repetitive hiding and gunfighting to really be driven by the story. Also, like in warcraft 3, it feels more like the designers tried to build a plot they could wrap around their gameplay mechanic - which story would enable the character to run, jump, shoot and hide a lot, rather than writing the story and then fitting the gameplay mechanic to fit that story.

I think Amnesia is a perfect example of a game which didn’t use classic adventure gameplay mechanic, but still designed the whole game around the storytelling, so the gameplay was carefully crafted to never interfere with the story and atmosphere.

     
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Total Posts: 2648

Joined 2004-01-18

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Intersting idea and I get where you are coming from, but the old definition is fine for me.

There are always going to be games on the edges of the defintion that will cause arguments. This is same for all genres…Bioshock -> FPS or RPG, Brutal Legend RPG, 3rd person action game or RTS. Is Rage a FPS,RPG or racing game.

People like to pidgeon hole things, but does it really matter as long as the game is good.

     

An adventure game is nothing more than a good story set with engaging puzzles that fit seamlessly in with the story and the characters, and looks and sounds beautiful.
Roberta Williams

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