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Why I’m done with Kickstarting adventure games. 

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teme - 12 June 2012 04:10 PM

One thing that people often forget is that you’ll get the full game at considerably lower price when you support the developer during Kickstarter campaign. So in my opinion the ‘kindness’ is mutual - if you’re kind enough to support the developer, the developer is kind enough to ‘sell’ the game at lower price.

1) You don’t really know what they’re going to sell the final game at. Most downloadable adventure games do go for somewhere in the ballpark of $10-$20 at launch.

2) Most of the funding for these projects comes from people giving far more than the minimum.

3) Half off a potentially terrible game is not such a good deal. There is no way for the player to be discriminating here.

And Kickstarter isn’t free money for developer, every backer is probably one sale less of the retail product.

Are you kidding? Normally a developer is LUCKY if they sell enough get money for a game he made besides his salary. With Kickstarter, it’s GUARUNTEED. They’ve broken even before they even make the game.

Not to mention which, they get more from these people than from later sales. Double Fine Adventure’s backers gave $38 on average. Their cut of sales of the game on Steam will probably be around $10 per unit. So you’re losing a $10 sale to gain a $38 sale. There’s no real downside for the developer, only potentially for the consumer.

teme - 12 June 2012 04:10 PM

And finally, Kickstarter isn’t a new way to buy games - it’s an alternate solution, and people can still buy the finished games as before.

Of course. And I’m simply saying many people should favor that option in less exceptional cases.

     
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I guess we’ll all have to wait until the first “mainstream” Kickstarter-funded game is actually produced and released. Then we can commont on whether or not personal funding was worth it….or not.

     

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rtrooney - 12 June 2012 08:54 PM

I guess we’ll all have to wait until the first “mainstream” Kickstarter-funded game is actually produced and released. Then we can commont on whether or not personal funding was worth it….or not.

Yeah, this kind of goes with my point. I think if these games are good, they’ll do well and continue to make our point to publishers, and if they suck, then we need to accept that maybe we were wrong.

Of the five games I mentioned (well, 6 if you count Jane Jensen’s unrevealed game), I kind of don’t think all of them will be as good as we’d like. But I’d wager at least 3 of them will.

     
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the problem is that you pledge a project and maybe if it’s a very dear project to you you pledge big.then comes another one that seems very worthy,then another then another…..if this continues then it’s the Kickstarter fatigue we were talking about.if there are games to be made by known developers that couldn’t get a publisher or investor every once in a while then it would be welcome but when you have to support so many projects in so little time it’s definitely not favourable.

as i said at the kickstarter fatigue thread a while ago,kickstarter was great to give a kickstart to the AG genre after a long drought where noone from the old champions released any games(apart from Jane and Gray Matter).and if all goes well the publishers/investors will see that this genre is long from dead and still has a lot of faithful followers.

as long as it’s used as a last option funding solution for a game i’m fine with that,provided it’s a couple of projects at most in parallel every time.anything beyond that is not preferable.i really hope this will bring a newfound trust in old warhorses again so that we all win.

     
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I think your concerns about Kickstarter are well-founded, but I don’t feel like we’ve hit a saturation point in unwarranted, high-risk projects. So far this year the five major projects we’ve been discussing all meet what I would see as the appropriate criteria: 1) Designers who have earned the benefit of the doubt with their track record (Schafer, Mandel, Jensen, Two Guys, Conners/Jones), and 2) Games that would never have been made in the traditional publishing model, or that the designers clearly do not have the initial resources to commit (I agree with the sentiment that it would be hard to fund a new Roberta Williams game).

Any Kickstarter that pops up that is clearly just the path of least resistance for someone who wants to ride the wave, or a designer that has given the public no reason to implicitly trust their ability to design and complete a high-quality game, is easily ignored (as Sam Suede has proven), but I don’t feel overwhelmed by those yet. From my perspective, I have bought five exciting adventure games so far this year, and I have paid less for those than two X360 games would cost (and I coughed up some extra to get my name in the SpaceVenture credits…). I really don’t feel any fatigue yet—it’s my money, and each project is a case-by-case basis based on my criteria.

Practically, any designer planning to jump on the bandwagon late though, really should dig in for a while in hopes that the first one of these that comes out (probably Moebius?) will be successful and prove that the entire model works. If Double Fine Adventure comes out and gets an 85 Metacritic score and is a top seller on Steam, you can’t even imagine what Kickstarter fatigue is yet…

     

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Frogacuda - 12 June 2012 06:41 PM

Of course. And I’m simply saying many people should favor that option in less exceptional cases.

I think ‘exceptional cases’ is the key here. People are backing on kickstarter because they have been wanting these game for a long time, and this seems to be the only way to make it happen. You can be sure that if the same devs return to kickstarter for the next game, the enthusiasm will be far less.

     

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Frogacuda - 12 June 2012 06:41 PM

1) You don’t really know what they’re going to sell the final game at. Most downloadable adventure games do go for somewhere in the ballpark of $10-$20 at launch.

2) Most of the funding for these projects comes from people giving far more than the minimum.

3) Half off a potentially terrible game is not such a good deal. There is no way for the player to be discriminating here.

1) Really? I haven’t seen 10-20 dollar launch price for Gray Matter, Black Mirror 3, Next Big Thing etc.

2) Yes, but why the developer should take the blame on that? Or are you saying that developer shouldn’t offer higher priced tiers, even if some people would want them? People buy retail collector’s editions too, so it’s obvious that developers offer higher “Collector’s edition” tiers.

3) Yes, that’s true. However, we are talking about adventure games from “famous” developers. Surely there are still risks, but I’m pretty sure I’d buy all the games I have pledged for (Tex Murphy, SpaceVenture, Moebius, Larry).

Frogacuda - 12 June 2012 06:41 PM

And Kickstarter isn’t free money for developer, every backer is probably one sale less of the retail product.

Are you kidding? Normally a developer is LUCKY if they sell enough get money for a game he made besides his salary. With Kickstarter, it’s GUARUNTEED. They’ve broken even before they even make the game.

Lots of game studios have gone bankruptcy during past few years, so obviously there’s something wrong. I think developers won’t get rich with Kickstarter money, I’m happy if they get some money besides their salaries, so maybe their studio is financially a little bit more secured. Game development studios of all sizes seem to be struggling nowadays for various reasons (AAA games are too expensive to make, one unsuccessful game means the end for the otherwise successful studio, indie developers are struggling to get publicity to their iOS game in overcrowded AppStore etc)... so even though I’m not developer myself, I’m not really liking the “...but with Kickstarter money developers get so rich!” attitude… obviously they need money to create a game, not to buy more champagne and bigger mansions.

Frogacuda - 12 June 2012 06:41 PM

Of course. And I’m simply saying many people should favor that option in less exceptional cases.

Sorry, but I still don’t get it. Maybe it’s just me, but I don’t see why Kickstarter is such a bad thing. I don’t understand the negative attitude towards it - if some people want to support developers that way, so what? If project isn’t attractive enough, people won’t give their money for it. People aren’t fooled to give their money, and successful Kickstarter project isn’t that easy to create (although these ‘big name’ projects may give that impression).

I think, after all, it’s about community and good will. Developers create games for us and gamers help them to create new games. Surely Kickstarter method isn’t for everybody, and it only exists as long as there are people who support it.

     

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I understand the fatigue, and im ready for a break from “campaigning” for these things. That said, im keeping my ears open and certainly dont rule out a great project reeling me in again.

     
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teme - 13 June 2012 02:29 AM

1) Really? I haven’t seen 10-20 dollar launch price for Gray Matter, Black Mirror 3, Next Big Thing etc.

These games were not downloadable only…..Yesterday would be a more appropriate example.however it supports Frogacuda’s point.

teme - 13 June 2012 02:29 AM

2) Yes, but why the developer should take the blame on that? Or are you saying that developer shouldn’t offer higher priced tiers, even if some people would want them? People buy retail collector’s editions too, so it’s obvious that developers offer higher “Collector’s edition” tiers.

no problem with that but sometimes the rewards are not so satisfactory for the ammount of money.to be able to get collectibles and some parts of the game that others don’t have for 500$ seems a little extravagant.500$ would buy you 10-20 other games.and sometimes without them projects can’t be made.the two guys barely made it.of course in the end they did surpass the goal by a bit but it doesn’t change the fact that cold sweat was evident in the last 24 hours before the deadline.

look the point is we don’t hope for kickstarter to be a big part of future fundings.we won’t the publishers to realise this genre still exists and if by some chance a game by a trusted dev can’t be made by publishers for x reasons then kickstarter comes into view.it’s the principle of the matter.you don’t see companies in other work areas trying to get money from the customers before releasing a product even if they have debts.

     
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I think publishers know the genre still exists just fine. The trouble is, because the adventure game genre is niche and there are only so many thousands of fans that would buy them, publishers wouldn’t make very much at all. Those fan figures need to be in the millions… Meh

Kickstarter is ideal to cater to that small crowd

     

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jhetfield21 - 13 June 2012 08:51 AM

no problem with that but sometimes the rewards are not so satisfactory for the ammount of money.to be able to get collectibles and some parts of the game that others don’t have for 500$ seems a little extravagant.500$ would buy you 10-20 other games.and sometimes without them projects can’t be made.the two guys barely made it.of course in the end they did surpass the goal by a bit but it doesn’t change the fact that cold sweat was evident in the last 24 hours before the deadline.

Yeah, I agree that often the higher tiers are not satisfactory, and that’s why I’m not usually interested in them. However, I think it’s okay to see developer offering them and some people pledging those amounts of money. I’ve always thought those higher tiers as more like “supportive” tiers than people actually paying that amount just to get the reward.

jhetfield21 - 13 June 2012 08:51 AM

you don’t see companies in other work areas trying to get money from the customers before releasing a product even if they have debts.

There’s lots of various categories/areas in Kickstarter, which have been using crowdfunding successfully for awhile. Many indie movies have started with Kickstarter, and later won some respected awards. There’s technology projects, artists wanting funding to record new albums, designers wanting to create a clothing line etc.

     

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One thing I don’t understand in this Kickstarter criticism is that why you need to be so loud about it? Kickstarter is not a thing that affects to your life even if you don’t want to support it - it’s not like DRM which affects to everyone’s gaming experience whether you support it or not. Just don’t click the KS news, avoid visiting KS website and that’s it. You can continue your life and keep buying your games as before.

Everyone has right to say their opinion and that’s fine, but I don’t get this “Listen up! I don’t support Kickstarter, and neither should you!” attitude. If you don’t like Kickstarter, you can ignore it completely. If you don’t like some KS project, don’t put your money into it. You can choose what you do with your money, but there’s no need for you to decide on behalf of everybody if some specific KS project is viable or not, or whether Kickstarter is good or bad.

     
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teme - 13 June 2012 09:11 AM

Yeah, I agree that often the higher tiers are not satisfactory, and that’s why I’m not usually interested in them. However, I think it’s okay to see developer offering them and some people pledging those amounts of money. I’ve always thought those higher tiers as more like “supportive” tiers than people actually paying that amount just to get the reward.

thing is you need those guys to pitch in sometimes for the game to be made.

teme - 13 June 2012 09:11 AM

There’s lots of various categories/areas in Kickstarter, which have been using crowdfunding successfully for awhile. Many indie movies have started with Kickstarter, and later won some respected awards. There’s technology projects, artists wanting funding to record new albums, designers wanting to create a clothing line etc.

maybe but no one is as well known as these guys.i haven’t checked it out but i haven’t seen any articles saying sth along the lines of “Adobe kickstarts Adobe Reade 15 with whole new technology” or some other well known developer nearing bankraptcy doing a kickstarter.


my point was for the games to not kickstart in parallel or at least no more than two…......while i may too buy all six of them if they get published i can do it in a long period of time.while kickstarters are projects that you want to see made and published but in order for it to happen you must pledge.and while me and you might have the financial stability to do it some others don’t.also since it’s a niche genre as Dusty said it’s gonna be a bit difficult to publish all those kickstarters without overdepending on the few who can afford it.let’s not forget the tastes too.overall kickstarter isn’t a good platform for everyone to join in.but as a last resort it’s definitely good as we can see those games that get canceled for financial reasons published.

     
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teme - 13 June 2012 11:14 AM

One thing I don’t understand in this Kickstarter criticism is that why you need to be so loud about it?

It’s just an editorial opinion piece meant to spark discussion. I’m not really judging anyone for doing what they do, and I wish the best for everyone on Kickstarter.

Everyone has right to say their opinion and that’s fine, but I don’t get this “Listen up! I don’t support Kickstarter, and neither should you!” attitude.

So you support having the opinion, but not expressing it? I’m not trying to make anyone’s decisions for them, just trying to get a conversation going and discuss the good and bad.

I also think you may be missing my message, too. I’m very much pro-Kickstarter, but no one has money to give to everything, and I think we should pace ourselves and give to only those projects that speak to something unique and exceptional. Simply being any old adventure game isn’t enough.

I will be Kickstarting more games, but I’m done Kickstarting adventure games now for at least a good while, because I really don’t think there will be a lot of them that are better/more important than what we’ve done, and I’d rather save my money for when there’s a NEW message to send.

     
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Even if this funding model is unsustainable, I’d recommend we ride out for as long as we can.

Adventure games have nothing to prove in terms of mainstream appeal as Quanatic Dream, Telltale Games, Amanita Design and Capcom amongst others who stuck it out these past ten years will show you. The common thread amongst the five projects you detailed in your article is the cult of celebrity factor. Tim Schafer is a rock star, Chris Jones basically stars in his own game and thank you Ken for putting the designer’s face on the box. Nintendo doesn’t even do that with Miyamoto.

Kickstarter is giving the people we know and enjoy a second wind in an industry that underestimates the value of its talent. This is why that even though many of us can cite Kickstarter faitgue (and it has been tiring at times), most of us will be first in line when Corey and Lori Cole use the website to fund their project in six months time. So, I guess my point is… whatever happens will happen.  Gasp

     

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