Adventure Gamers - Forums

DCast - 05 June 2021 01:43 PM

Baron_Blubba - 05 June 2021 08:04 AM

Okay, you got me. I’ll bring my home laptop to work today and play some more during lunch..

Hell yeah! Eating in peace is overrated.

See, here’s the funny thing: I do almost all of my game playing while eating. It’s the only way I have time to do it, and still also do all the other things I enjoy, and work 9+ hours a day, 7 days a week. This is why I play so many point and click games, and why I eat falafel so infrequently: One hand on the food, one hand on the mouse. Sometimes, when I have mouse for lunch, I get confused and end up scrubbing a medium-rare rodent back and forth across my desk while crunching on a piece of plastic and then sucking on the trackball like a peach pit.

As for eating in peace…well, major tangent here, but I have breakfast at work every day, after opening up the shop. Any customer who walks in and interrupts that breakfast and doesn’t spend at least $20 is (in my imagination) blacklisted for life. Sometimes murdered. It depends how hungry I am and how compelling the game I am playing is.
On the bright side! You’d be *amazed* at how many people, young and old (like seriously, from 8 year olds to 68 year olds) have seen my paused game of King’s Quest or Space Quest while I am ringing them up, recognized it, and well…that’s how friendships are formed.

Blubba
Definition 1. Rotund, robust, corpulent, fat, blubbery.
Definition 2 (verb): To talk a lot. Synonyms: Blabber, blubber, babble.

DCast, on annihilating men (and, to be fair, also women and children) for interrupting important activities: My problem is that I am almost always eating. I go for a 2-4 hour bicycle ride before work every day (and a similarly epic kayak or hiking adventure on my ‘days off’), so hunger resolution is much more temporary for me than it is for most people.

On the game being not as dark as everyone seems to say, I agree 100%, and you stated several reasons why which I agree with. Here’s the thing: At this point in the game (I think you might be a little ahead of me, but probably not much), we still don’t know much about our character’s history, right? We don’t know what kind of a person he was in normal life. But we do know that, at this point in time, he has a noble soul (again, one of the things I like so much about Wormwood is how they allow nobility to exist amidst wretchedness). He sees a woman, ostensibly a stranger, in peril, and he tries to save her. Failing to do so, he tries to save her again. And again, and again. Maybe she’s the key to his mystery, but I also sense that he has an affinity for the value of a life, and a desire to ameliorate suffering. This noble character is the torch we yield do light up the corners of this wretched-seeming world. No matter how wretched and dark the world we explore is, it is always illuminated by a noble light, which prevents the darkness from attaining a monopoly and becoming the undisputed sovereign of the world.

Also, even though I tend to like my stories lighter and fluffier, this is not the sort of darkness that bothers me. The darkness that bothers me is when writers try to tell us ‘This is the world. It is a dark place. It is a nasty place. It is a cruel and unjust place. That’s just how it is. We’re just telling it how it is.’ Which is nonsense, because that’s not how the world is—that’s just the world they are making, for whatever reason. It’s a contrived darkness of convenience and exploitation. I don’t sense that at all with Wormwood Studios’ games.
As far as the imagery goes, removed from any of the meaning that the game imbues it with: I have a physical music library of ~1000 cd’s. When you take out the Disney sountracks, Broadway soundtracks, and Train albums…most of the rest of the albums have cover artwork that make this stuff look positively mild, or at least…normal. Ha.

Okay!
I’m curious how everyone did on the number puzzle. I can see that one as being a bit of a stumper. Took me a bit to parse the clue, but man, hearing that connection afterward and *knowing* ‘hey! I got it right!’ was *so* satisfying!

The line ‘You gave me an entree, so I’ll make sure you get your just desserts.’ also made me grin. The game is full of little gems like that, clever wordplay that reminds me of a favorite children’s book called Chocolate Moose For Dinner…only this would be the Addams Family equivalent.

The box!
I’m not sure if you have to open it to make progress in the game. I don’t think so. It’s one instance where I *knew* I shouldn’t, that it would probably harm my character, but! I’m a firm believer that when people decorate their lawn, even with the most horrific and apparently anti-social decorations, they do it because they *want* attention. They *want* people to stop and stare, and maybe even trespass a little to get a closer look at that skeleton that is evidence of what happened to the last guy who trespassed a little to get a closer look. So, in that spirit, I meta-gamed. Yeah, the voices in the game were telling me NOOOOOO! but come on, the developers totally want you to open it…so I did! And the line about the bottom was a nice little payoff, especially how it rolls over into the game afterward. Great stuff!

Lastly, speaking of oleaginous birds…
I just met the *actual* oily bird and I can’t believe it. This is fantastic. Wormwood, please tell me more about what went into the making of this puzzle. I feel like it was put here just for me. I love it. Brilliant. I mean, it’s still *so* stupid, as stupid as it was in Primordia times ten, but this time it’s hilarious and I love it.

Okay, lastly again…man, this game has won me over…In the same room as the bird…
The idea of having something in your mind that is not your memory is introduced. This is so simple and so brilliant, so much fun to think about. What in my mind is *not* my memory? It’s psychology/philosophy 101, but it’s wrapped up and presented as a profound gift, in a very cool context.

Also…I am really enjoying how the story itself, the mystery,  is like a jigsaw puzzle that is filling itself from the edges and working inward. That’s the impression I’m getting. First a frame…a wobbly frame with nothing supporting it, and then the pieces start getting filled in and the frame gets stronger and less tenuous.

Okay gotta go!

Wow! You are writing a lot about your experience playing the game. I’ll try to read it all and comment tomorrow. But I am glad you are enjoying Strangeland.

I like the puzzles. The clown entrance face and some of the imagery make me uneasy, but I think that is the tone the game is going for.

I’m not sure if I’d qualify the main character as some sort of noble type. Here’s my take:

Strangeland is a (self-imposed) limbo. It feels very insular. The same goes for the way our protagonist experiences the world. His conversations with the few inhabitants of Strangeland lack a solid, meaningful connection. If he tries, all the metaphors create a sense of detachment. Even the fortune-teller, who seems the most interested in helping this querent, can’t really speak to him in a way he could readily understand. There’s an inability to really connect.

It’s hard to tell what motivates the protagonist, or if he’s a nice person, since he’s mostly driven by uncertainty and a struggle against despair.  I’m not sure how he relates to “The Woman” or “The Dark Thing”, other than he wants to save the former and kill the latter.

Save her, from what? Her reasons for falling down the well are unclear. Does she need saving? And from what, or whom? “The Dark thing”? Herself? 

Because there are no obvious agendas for either “The Woman” or “The Dark Thing”, I’d say both seem more like projections at this point.

The Stranger’s interactions in Strangeland seems to be based on maladaptive schemas. The place itself seems to be a manifestation of isolation. The phone calls he receives from himself are self-punitive, perhaps the internalized voiced of an overcritical parent/superior. Or a guilty conscience. They’re also part of a general theme of unavoidable disaster. You die and go through everything all over again. “The Woman” falls down the well. You try to fix things, but you’re told you can only make things worse. This ties into a sense of defectiveness. The only solution is to externalize, to direct otherwise impotent rage at some embodiment of evil, however abstract it may be.

I mean.. what is killing “The Dark Thing” going to accomplish? Is it an actual, reasonable goal?

All of this might be completely wrong. I’ve only just passed the numbers puzzle. We’ll see where this goes!

edit: don’t know what I should hide behind spoiler tags. I try to go by the previous posts. If anything needs adjustment, let me know.

I have so much to say about so much. Loving to read everyone else’s takes on this game, and I realized that my take is indeed very personal. Don’t have a computer where I am right now, but look forward to replying/explaining/playing on Tuesday at the latest.

Oh please do! I went overboard with my theory, I think.

In that light, it may seem like I’m haughtily dissecting the whole thing while wearing a monocle. It’s pretty much my response to horror, a genre I’m not very familiar with. And it’s very personal as well (consider some of the stuff I wrote to you).

At this point, I could really use your more sanguine outlook and I kind of hope you’re right. Maybe the game is a metaphor-laden abstraction of a struggle to do right.

Both of you saw something uplifting. That might be due to more familiarity with this type of setting and the way it communicates goals and emotional states.  I immediately went for bleak. The protagonist doesn’t falter.. let’s see if it pays off.

When I take off the monocle, I guess I lack that perspectieve you get when you see through the disturbing imagery, or enjoy it in a different way. At this point, I’d quite like to see the individual with the innate drive to, as you so nicely put it, ameliorate suffering.

By the way, last thing I managed to do last night: enter the circus tent.

Let me grab my monocle before I crawl under my chair.. there it is, yes. I guess you know there’s a term for this. I’m not sure how it ties into the story of the game, but.. it does evoke a couple of things.

Another question, I hope I can smuggle this in.. how about that streammaid? Any thoughts on her? She seems like the only recognizable female figure with a (visible) face. I wonder if there’s more to her presence in the game.

I have a late shift today, followed by a day off, so if we’re all near the end of the game, I could probably finish it before work, or tomorrow. How are your schedules, where are you at this point in the game and are you up for discussing the ending and overal impression of the game?

Well, I’ll try to put my two cents in your comments.

First of all, the lenght of the game would be 4-5 hours, depending on how fast you read.

You are right in emphasizing game’s visuals. I think Vik has really outdone himself here and has taken AGS to a new level.

About main character’s voice, as I played the game in early stages with no voices, I imagined another tone, like when you read a book and then they make a movie or a TV series and the actor/actress is not like you imagined… Although I admit Abe Golfarb has made a great job, and I loved him in Primordia as Crispin, I felt that in fact Logan Cunningham’s voice (Horatio in Primordia) would have been more fitting. Well, Dave Gilbert works in mysterius ways…

About the writing, if was tough for me as I didn’t know many English words used in the game. I am sure I will learn a lot when translating it if everythng goes well. And you will really appreciate the writing when playing with annotations.

I think the sense of bleakness comes from not knowing in the beggining the purpose of the game, and the fact that when you seem to make some progress, you die and start again (you DO made some progress, but probably you haven’t realized yet).

Using the torch for bringing the dead back really touched me because of what the dead tell you (for example, streammaid commment is heartbreaking).

Baron_Blubba - 05 June 2021 04:51 PM

We don’t know what kind of a person he was in normal life. But we do know that, at this point in time, he has a noble soul (again, one of the things I like so much about Wormwood is how they allow nobility to exist amidst wretchedness). He sees a woman, ostensibly a stranger, in peril, and he tries to save her. Failing to do so, he tries to save her again. And again, and again. Maybe she’s the key to his mystery, but I also sense that he has an affinity for the value of a life, and a desire to ameliorate suffering.

We’ll come back to that when you finish the game.

The telephone number? As non native English speaker, I miserably failed, Mark had to help me there. And translating it is going to be a miracle…

The box… I forgot to ask Mark for the real meaning of opening box, beyond the Pandora’s box reference. I hope he explains it here…

I loved the sense of humour of the game (maybe because I love dark humour). The (clever) puns prove how well written the game is.

Vegetable Party - 06 June 2021 10:30 AM

The Stranger’s interactions in Strangeland seems to be based on maladaptive schemas. The place itself seems to be a manifestation of isolation. The phone calls he receives from himself are self-punitive, perhaps the internalized voiced of an overcritical parent/superior. Or a guilty conscience. They’re also part of a general theme of unavoidable disaster. You die and go through everything all over again. “The Woman” falls down the well. You try to fix things, but you’re told you can only make things worse. This ties into a sense of defectiveness. The only solution is to externalize, to direct otherwise impotent rage at some embodiment of evil, however abstract it may be.

You made me look up five words in the dictionary haha. If I understood well, I agree with you.

Let’s see how your theories prove themselves right or wrong…

Hi walas74, your input is appreciated as well!

walas74 - 07 June 2021 07:31 AM

Well, Dave Gilbert works in mysterius ways…

Speaking of which, I’d like to hear people’s thoughts on the religious themes and references in the game. There’s stuff from the Torah (or.. Old Testament, if you must) - Genesis and Exodus in particular. But the man under the three, besides the obvious connotation to Adam and the Tree of Knowledge (particularly in Deadland, with the OLD SNAKE) also seems like a perversion of the Gautama Buddha and the Bodhi Tree. In a broader context, the tree could refer to a great number of mythical trees (Tree of Life, etc).

I suspect the Baron has at least something interesting to say on the matter.. but everyone is welcome to join in!

I will probably get back to my psych evaluation later on, so be wary. But in the meantime, let’s throw some theology in the mix.

Finished! A smidge under 4 hours. Proudest achievement for me was correctly identifying all three versions of myself , because I’ve got a mind like a sieve.

Okay, I have a lot to say about this game and hope to reply to everyone’s posts tomorrow and share my own thoughts as well. Life recently got a whole lot busier, so I’ve been a little less active here than usual. But I will make the time to give this game and my fellow play throughers that words they deserve.

VP, here’s an interesting religious reference to ponder: Nineveh was the wicked city that god sent Jonah to warn of their imminent destruction unless they repented their ways. Does Nineveh in this game reflect on a wickedness within or perpetrated by the MC, or is she a symbol of wickedness herself? In any of these cases, is this wickedness actual or only perceived by the MC? Or is it all something else entirely? If she is Nineveh, then is the MC Jonah?
Here’s an interesting tidbit about Jonah. We all know he was swallowed by a whale. Did you know he boarded the ship in the first place in order to escape from God, when He commanded him to go prophecize to Nineveh?
The sailors then threw him overboard, thinking him a stormbringing albatross. Then he gets swallowed, and spends three days in the whale’s belly praying to the God he was running from for salvation.
God listens, the whale spits him out. Jonah goes and saves the city with his prophecy, then falls into depression. God shows him a lesson in mercy using nature and insects as an example, as Jonah feels better about saving the wicked city. This last sentence might be grounds for a sequel, but everything preceding it is fun food for thought when considering Strangeland and biblical references. One question that might pertain to Strangeland is: Is Strangeland the whale? The belly of the beast that the MC must reside in in order to learn to pray, to repent, to find the path to salvation?

Another interesting thing to ponder is why Jonah fled to begin with…It might be because he knew that Nineveh would repent, while his own nation was notoriously slow to repent. Or, they would repent, relapse, repent, relapse, in frustratingly predictable cycles. He felt that by giving Nineveh the opportunity to redeem itself, their subsequent repentance would not reflect well on his own nation, the Israelites. Not sure if this is beyond the scope of the game, but just figured I might as well finish the story.

Wormwood, I think you will probably read this: I know Dave Gilbert is Jewish. Abe Goldfarb obviously is. Are the devs at Wormwood Jewish as well?

Okay…this is just some food for thought to give Vegetable Party something to chew on until I can get around to making a much more game-centric and less speculative post.

Hoo boy…this game. Whaddaya know, it *is* dark after all!

Baron_Blubba - 08 June 2021 09:55 PM

VP, here’s an interesting religious reference to ponder: Nineveh was the wicked city that god sent Jonah to warn of their imminent destruction unless they repented their ways. Does Nineveh in this game reflect on a wickedness within or perpetrated by the MC, or is she a symbol of wickedness herself? In any of these cases, is this wickedness actual or only perceived by the MC? Or is it all something else entirely? If she is Nineveh, then is the MC Jonah?

phew! I’m going to think about this for a while.

God listens, the whale spits him out. Jonah goes and saves the city with his prophecy, then falls into depression. God shows him a lesson in mercy using nature and insects as an example(...)

It’s not exactly the same, but there’s a lot of withering and a particular Cicada with a tutelatory streak.

Another interesting thing to ponder is why Jonah fled to begin with…It might be because he knew that Nineveh would repent, while his own nation was notoriously slow to repent. Or, they would repent, relapse, repent, relapse, in frustratingly predictable cycles. He felt that by giving Nineveh the opportunity to redeem itself, their subsequent repentance would not reflect well on his own nation, the Israelites. Not sure if this is beyond the scope of the game, but just figured I might as well finish the story.

This is great. One thing I learned about the story of Jonah: being chosen to be a prophet seems like an honour in retrospect, but as a mortal, it’s not always great. The task is often wearying end you might up in prison, or on the wrong side of a stone, a sword.. or even a saw. Jonah thought: yeah, nah. Let’s not go in that direction. But you can’t run from divine obligation.

Hoo boy…this game. Whaddaya know, it *is* dark after all!

This, I thought, was actually pretty cool. The ending was a combination of all of our ideas. Thesis and antithesis synthesized.

Thanks for your great response, I have to go now, but this will be in the back of my mind all day. To everyone else reading: what do you think? Any themes you picked up? Did you get a chance to catch up with all the annotations? I think I’ll follow walas’ advice and play with the annotations mode on, but I haven’t had the chance just yet.