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are there rules for stories that suit Adventures?

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is it about good stories only or sometimes this good story couldn’t be an adventure game?

and these Qs come because i have come to a kinda conclusion that best adventures are the games their puzzles tells the story or at least their puzzles are mostly what moves the narrative.

examples; are AGs that about discovering who you are, and this the most winning theme at Adventure genre because games like at BM(s) especially part3 you are on the long loop of discovering your family secrets thru the quantity of the puzzles. and same goes for woodruff and the schnibble and another 100s of AGs which sometimes i even claimed they are better than the adventure games the God Devs
of the original classic adventure game made. and that long explanation needed here but for another time.

there at the game, i mentioned the length of the game comes very subjectively, as it throws you from puzzle to a puzzle and puzzle and a puzzle at each you learn you or discover so the length is about the time is taken to solve each. i am not talking about the dumb and the smart competition here, but about those who like to take their sufficient time to explore everything thoroughly, but i think this is another story too.

to the main point game like Batman and so on.. were hardly have a story that can make adventure games with the right amount of puzzle, you have an established hero, not a loser or a lost human or a man on a big discovery, or someone saving his crew on a strange planet.

anyways i am hardly making any statement(s) here but it is a genuine question about stories and their compatibility with the adventures & the genre.

thanks in advance

PSedited the title for better righteous expresive grammar

     
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I don’t think there are stories that won’t work as an adventure game, but I do think there are certain types of stories which are easier to adapt into one.

For an example, detective stories make kind of an ideal base for an adventure, as the exploration and investigation is a core element in proceeding on a case. You can very fluently do different styles of puzzles, ranging from piece puzzles to dialogue based puzzles.

Something harder to adapt would be a story that is symbolic or uses a lot of abstract things to convey the narrative or puzzles. That might turn into a nightmarish mess for both, designer and the player.

There’s a good reason why certain themes might feel a bit overrepresented in adventure games as puzzles just are a better fit for some stories. Then again, even if the story would be a good fit for a puzzle doesn’t mean that the puzzles are good or even tightly tied to the story itself.

On an unrelated note to the topic, I recommend installing Grammarly plugin on your browser. It’s a pretty handy tool for checking spelling errors: https://app.grammarly.com

     
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Oh, thanks Tomimt for the link!!
————————————————————

I totally agree with every word you said, you even said what i was trying translate out my head into the Original Post much better than what i did, I mean your post is more attached to the subject i was/ wanted to let outta my chest as i always do, also too happy that people here accept them by even letting them flow without any bashing anymore. Laughing
but thanks again tomimt for explaining the idea in three possible examples which show your understanding to the subject perfectly. if there a way even would pushed your post up to be the OP of the thread.

     
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I always liked the ways stories are told in games, not the stories themselves. Maybe that’s the reason I got fed up with games that try to tell a certain type of story and fall nicely into a category (solve the murder, save the day, save the world, regain your memory). Games with unusual themes and/or storytelling (like Full Throttle, Firewatch, KRZ) proved to me that a good storyteller can just make a masterpiece out of everything (provided that he has the skill, the passion and the personal approach).

On the other hand, these same games are still trying to fit into a category in their try to escape from the beaten path. So the writers usually choose either quirky or really unextraordinary settings in order to focus their attention on what’s behind the front facade.

I’ve been saying all this having in mind all games that have a story in some way. But the same goes for AGs (especially now, when the focus of modern AGs seems to be towards the story rather than the puzzles). Concerning the puzzles, I agree with the previous posters that some of the beaten categories offer an easier approach in the puzzle design (i’m looking at you, detectives, amnesiacs and wanna-be pirates Laughing ). But easier doesn’t always mean better.

     
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tomimt - 11 December 2017 05:18 PM

I don’t think there are stories that won’t work as an adventure game

I think there are many stories that will never work as an Adventure game only

     
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nomadsoul - 12 December 2017 05:36 AM
tomimt - 11 December 2017 05:18 PM

I don’t think there are stories that won’t work as an adventure game

I think there are many stories that will never work as an Adventure game only

Maybe boring ones like you get in RPGs.

“And then the party came upon a group of enemies and defeated them.
And then the party came upon another group of enemies and defeated them.”
etc…

     
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I do think a lot of RPG stories would work as an adventure, as they’re pretty basic at heart in the end but only padded with battles. You can take something like Baldur’s Gate and fully present it as an adventure if you choose to, it’s not like most adventure games have any more complex storylines.

Nomad, name a story you don’t think would work as an adventure of some sort.

     
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tomimt - 12 December 2017 05:58 AM

I do think a lot of RPG stories would work as an adventure, as they’re pretty basic at heart in the end but only padded with battles.

Similarly, a badly designed AG may feel like a story which is padded out with puzzles.

I’m not convinced there are any types of stories that as such couldn’t be made into good adventure games, but as with RPGs, a general “quest” story is probably the easiest (but then again could you not make the same generally applies to literature and movies). 

The tricky part is letting the player have a relative feeling of freedom in what they can do whilst still presenting key plot information in a logical order.  This is not an easy balancing act to perform and unfortunately the result is that sometimes the actual gameplay is merely creating space between long cut scenes or exposition dumps.

Puzzles ideally should not simply move the story forwards but also add flavour to the characters / game world and be intrinsic parts of the plot themselves.  The shame of it (in a way) is that if a game does this successfully, you don’t even notice as you’re so involved with playing the game, whereas if it feels like a puzzle’s been put there almost for the sake of breaking up the narrative, you really notice it then.

(You can of course have a game that only lets you follow a strict path forwards in the storyline, but then inevitably it feels too linear.)

     
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tomimt - 12 December 2017 05:58 AM

Nomad, name a story you don’t think would work as an adventure of some sort

Hellblade and Pyre, just recent examples off the top of my head
I am sure i can find plenty where combat or other mechanic is core element of narrative not a padded one

And Most of the genres out there mostly have component of Adventure, since RPGs and Action/Adventure have bigger canvas and action is inherent part of it many times

Adventure itself is workable in limited format, use too much action, rile up some fans and its action adventure
Use no agency, it becomes walking sim or narrative or casual experience
Not mention barrage of arguments within our community not just outside world

Even in game awards , categories of Adventure only is fading


Edit

Nier Automata just came to mind, another fine example with narrative bending the conventions of gaming industry as a whole

SpecOps The Line another example where padded fighting of not just shooters but real world warfare is being explored in genius way

 

     
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CaptainD - 12 December 2017 07:33 AM

Puzzles ideally should not simply move the story forwards but also add flavour to the characters / game world and be intrinsic parts of the plot themselves

Agree, padded puzzles which we have done 100 times are as bad as padded action game elements Tomint said

Headycakesofdoom - 12 December 2017 05:53 AM

Maybe boring ones like you get in RPGs

And where does your PiranhaBytes game fall into?

     
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But what you are talking is the combat mechanics of a game, not the story or what really happens in that said story. Sure enough, in a combat oriented game, the progression is done through combat, but the question for the story itself is can that something be achieved through something else that is not combat. That’s a question of design more than anything else.

     
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I also just remembered a little game called Remember Me, a combat game as well. It has a combat system that you could call puzzle based, as you can create your own combos in it, of which some work better, some worse against certain enemies. So even straight beat ‘em-up can be designed somewhat like a puzzle game.

     
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tomimt - 12 December 2017 09:07 AM

But what you are talking is the combat mechanics of a game, not the story or what really happens in that said story. Sure enough, in a combat oriented game, the progression is done through combat, but the question for the story itself is can that something be achieved through something else that is not combat. That’s a question of design more than anything else.

Thats why mentioned such examples spoilers, you have to play those games

HellbladeCombat as Nordic setup, and internal mental struggle to fight demons, and Rot mechanic, as well as many other small big details that fit into Senua’s journey

Pyre Rites, remove rites and its a shallow visual novel thats basically butchered narrative, again play the game

In Specops you do stuff of animals, killing and shit of innocent people, that triggers the whole plot and i dont think you can make players feel consequence of their actions like that with PnC or walking sim AG(feel guilty as effectively), you have to play those scenes, shoot,struggle and feel bad, to realize the consequence which is not just for player, but protagonist mentalstate too and depicted in narrative is genius way

Nier is whole complex beast, which you have to play yourself
Its a story of machines stuck in endless loop of fighting with each other, existential crisis, and more, game keeps on changing design mechanics to explores more ways to express narrative

 

     
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Headycakesofdoom - 12 December 2017 05:53 AM
nomadsoul - 12 December 2017 05:36 AM
tomimt - 11 December 2017 05:18 PM

I don’t think there are stories that won’t work as an adventure game

I think there are many stories that will never work as an Adventure game only

Maybe boring ones like you get in RPGs.

“And then the party came upon a group of enemies and defeated them.
And then the party came upon another group of enemies and defeated them.”
etc…

Ah, Lord of the Rings! I stopped reading that book halfway. The movie was beautiful but just as boring.

     
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tsa - 12 December 2017 10:34 AM

Ah, Lord of the Rings! I stopped reading that book halfway. The movie was beautiful but just as boring.

     

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dont be be upset of me Tomimt and Nomad if i said your argument is not really not valid, bc you are bringing stories which had been adapted already as a game of certain genres and want to transcend them into adventures, may tomimt lost the concept in the heat of the argument but we need to talk of stories not games stories and that what i really agreed with tomimt greatly about that there is hardly a *Story* that couldn’t be an adventure game.

     

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