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Some Little Big Adventures hassles !

Poll: Which had the greatest impact over the Adventure Gaming Scene (blossom)! ... yeah it a cliched Q ,what the heck it refers to Point #5 Nicely
Total Votes: 12
LucasArts
6
Sierra_online
6
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1- state your definition of adventure Gaming.


2- name Three Adventures after ‘98 which could be considered great as a step/prove toward the genre that Adventures is alive and has big base of spectators around the world , may actually represent the golden age even on a small scale.


3- are you with the saying that it is about time for an evolution to Adventuring Games (stacking,Portal2) or you still prefer the the Classic formula the way it is?
a] evolution then do you see it just as an alternative/variation inside the Genre box or as the eventual necessarily change for the future of it
b]classic formula is it just because of you nostalgic and maybe you can not see Adventures produced otherwise, and its a genre that hardly could be expand or it will lose its charm .


4- are you so unforgiving to the new Adventures which are mostly related to lots of Cons/flaws and their effect upon the adventure scene or you dont care as long as there are a Productions and adventures are still being developed .


5- Concerning the Sierra and Lucas era :
do you consider one of them had a greatest impact over the other (the genre in General)  or their Impact (together) should never can be separated.
i added that poll above just for the fun of making/adding a poll to the thread Grin,
i guess the point itself would be better answered at the post!

6- Do you play other Games than Adventures:
a]. (yes) what is the parentage of them at this variation.
b]. (no) Is because you just hate other genres (shooting,strategy,action….) and dont find your self never in them.


7- do you see yourself as a supporter/fan of the genre ,a loyal and fulluy appreciate the 2d pixel-ed adventures that would had been produced 20 years ago, or you just prefer to live of the current technology/evolution and abort all outdated ones.

8- the return of some famous pioneers developers to the scene once again can you see it as a risk (a 2 sided weapon) that will either be start to another golden age of Adventuring or would it be nothing but like taking the last breath and effort into the history of the Genre (with as Big rushed overdosed failure)

9- how do you see the genre 10 years from now. ( big production Games selling millions of copies or nothing but some Fans games (Indies and freewares)

     
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1. A genre in which the player finds himself (or herself) in situations where pure logic and mind thinking is needed to overcome certain obstacles and proceed throughout a story. Other abilities of the player (such as reflexes) are of no or minimal use.

2. After ‘98? No GF then? Ok…
a) The Longset Journey: Not only it was an excellent game, but it brought adventure games in the light once again as well (it was well sold if I remember correctly).
b) Machinarium: A fine example of what quality can be achieved from a company with minimal budget.
c) Syberia: I felt oblidged to put it. Its graphics put a whole new standard in adventure gaming.
Honourable mentions to the Whispered World, Discworld Noir and Farehneit/Indingo Prophesy (I hated this one, but it created its own sub-genre…)

3. No, there is no NEED for change or “evolution”. That doesn’t mean that I don’t enjoy Stacking or similar games, but there are rules that have to be followed so that a game could be categorised as an adventure (see 1). For example, I firmly believe that Portal 2 is a great game, but it is a puzzle/platformer because it uses reflexes a lot.

4. I am not unforgettable to anything. But I want to see good quality adventure games getting published, even if that means less of them. Of course that doesn’t mean that f.e. Resonance souldn’t have been published because of its graphics! I put my faith in gameplay, riddles, story. If these are fine, everything else is forgivable Smile

5a. I admit that I’m a Lucas Arts (LucasFilm) fan. But both companies produced great games and their impact should not be seperated.

5b. Yes, mostly puzzle and platform games. Adventure gaming 80% - Other genre 20%

6. (See 4: Gameplay, riddles, story)

7. There is no risk for the creators of some of the best adventures ever, at least not in my heart. Yes, there are expectations (especially for Tim) but that’s only normal. I’m optimistic for most of the Kickstarter projects.

8. It depends of the socioeconomic factors after 10 years…Some titles belonging to sub-genres (as Heavy Rain) will sell well. I also believe that the Kickstarter project will be a success and more titles will try their luck this way. Most of the adventures will come either from Indies and small companies or well-known developers like Tim,Ron or Jane. To summarise: adventure gaming will be alive after 10 years! I told you. I’m optimistic.

     
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Advie - 30 June 2012 01:34 AM

1- state your definition of adventure Gaming.

An electronic journey with obstacles for the player to overcome. The playing part shouldn’t have much repetition like shooting or difficult keyboard/mouse tricks, it should have thinking-based puzzles and should give you lots of time to think.

2- name Three Adventures after ‘98 which could be considered great as a step/prove toward the genre that Adventures is alive and has big base of spectators around the world , may actually represent the golden age even on a small scale.

Yoomurjak’s Ring (Hungary)
Blue Madonna (Sweden)
Rhiannon (Ireland)

True they’re all from Europe but they’re great games. There are lots of people who like recent Asian adventure games like the Ace Attorney so I could just have easily mentioned one of them and we all know lots of good games come out of North America.

3- are you with the saying that it is about time for an evolution to Adventuring Games (stacking,Portal2) or you still prefer the the Classic formula the way it is?
a] evolution then do you see it just as an alternative/variation inside the Genre box or as the eventual necessarily change for the future of it
b]classic formula is it just because of you nostalgic and maybe you can not see Adventures produced otherwise, and its a genre that hardly could be expand or it will lose its charm .

Neither, really. I don’t have a problem with variation and I’m not really nostalgic. More of my favorite games are probably in the ‘classic style’ but I judge games by how much I like them not what style they are. Any style can be good, some styles maybe haven’t matured yet.

4- are you so unforgiving to the new Adventure relative to Cons/flaws of the nowdays adventures or you dont care as long as there are a Productions and adventures are still being developed .

Not sure what this means so… Yes? Don’t care? Both?

5- Concerning the Sierra and Lucas era :
do you consider one of them had a greatest impact over the other (the genre in General)  or their Impact (together) should never can be separated.

Sierra had a greater impact.

5- Do you play other Games than Adventures:
a]. (yes) what is the parentage of them at this variation.
b]. (no) Is because you just hate other genres (shooting,strategy,action….) and dont find your self never in them.

Maybe 10-20% other genres.

6- do you see yourself as a supporter/fan of the genre ,a loyal and appreciation fan even with 2d pixel-ed adventures that would had been produced 20 years ago, or you just prefer to live of the current technology/evolution and abort all outdated ones.

No.

7- the return of some famous pioneers develops to the scene once again could you see it as a risk (a 2 sided weapon) that will either the start the other golden age od Adventuring or would be nothing but like taking the last breath and effort into the history of the Genre (with as Big rushed overdosed failure)

It definitely won’t start a golden age, but it won’t signal doom. There are plenty of good developers which aren’t pioneers, and the old pioneers are surely past their prime.

8- how do you see the genre 10 years from now. ( big production Games selling millions of copies or nothing but some Fans games (Indies and freewares)

Same as it is now.

     
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1- Definition of adventure Gaming.
I think an adventure is basically any game where you have to make some choices or figure out some puzzles in order to progress in the story (where the main focus of the game is not hack’n'slash, character development or strategy which are obviously then action, RPG and strategy games).

2- Three Adventures after ‘98
If you leave me 1999 the choice is obvious: GK3, TLJ and Discworld Noir. Incredible time that end of the 90’s, not that the start was exactly bad either. 90s definitely were the golden age and while the genre didn’t exactly die, there’s been nothing like that since. Or at least yet. Considering all the big kickstarter projects now plus the regular great game here and there, we might hit another golden age.

3- Evolution vs. classicism
I prefer both. There’s nothing wrong with the old school point and click but I’m open for more new ideas, even if sometimes they don’t work perfectly. Some of the non-traditional adventures are my favourites but I’m still totally rooting for every old school game they make. (It’s the same with RPGs, I really love those old turn-based fighting systems and I don’t understand why they need to reinvent the combat for every new game. There can be twists, they can scrap random encounters, but they don’t need to get rid of the turns as they make the battles tactical instead of just hectic.)

4- Cons vs. don’t care
I too had a little hard time understanding this, I think there’s a missing word somewhere but I think I got the basic idea. Mostly “I don’t care as long as there are new adventures” but of course I am not completely indifferent. Anyway I still firmly believe that some flaws can in time develop into a desired attribute.
EDIT.You explained number four very well now. I don’t let some flaws ruin the game for me but if they pile up, they still might. And I really think it’s better that people can get their great ideas made into games with lesser money, this meaning lower resolutions and lack of voice acting etc. IT would of course be optimal that everyone with a good story would get tons of money to make exactly what they want but really talented people find the way anyway. I’m a quite a big Wadjet-Eye fan myself and while I certainly wouldn’t mind those games in high-res either, this is perfectly fine for me.

5- Sierra and Lucas
They were already both blooming when I started to play so I don’t really know which did what first. I am more of a Lucas girl myself as Sierra only has GK (which is certainly not a small thing) and I at least feel that Lucas made the adventures more user friendly. I respect both and I think they both had a huge impact.

6- Other Games than Adventures
I play MMORPGs, RPGs, strategy and management games, some puzzle games, casual games…
In titles I most likely play like 75% adventures but in time less than a half. RPGs and strategy games are quite time-consuming.

7- Current vs. all
I still play those 90’s games and don’t really have anything against playing 80’s games either. I appreciate good graphics and solid voice overs but I don’t see them as a necessity and not everything needs a remake. I won’t play just anything old though, only the really good ones.

8- The return of some famous pioneers
I think another Golden Age is possible but it wouldn’t be as big as back in the day. Today in everything there is just “too much” options for people. Back then everyone played adventures because it was new and there wasn’t so much other stuff to play. I don’t see how this could do anything bad to the adventure genre. Good games are always good games.

9- Genre 10 years
I wouldn’t predict any huge changes. The genre might be a bit more popular or not. Hopefully we have some bigger names and lots of indie stuff.

     

Currently playing: Haven, Genshin Impact
Recently played: Oknytt (CPT), Astrologaster, Observation, Carto, GreedFall, The Shivah, Spiritfarer, Airborne Kingdom, Gibbous, Driftland: The Magic Revival, Tukoni
My game reviews and other stuff: Lux Atarnia

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4- are you so unforgiving to the new Adventures which are mostly related to lots of Cons/flaws and their effect upon the adventure scene or you dont care as long as there are a Productions and adventures are still being developed .

i m totally sorry as this stated this very badly (English Wise)
what i meant is that Players sometimes are so unforgiving with some Indies or Low Budgets Adventures as ;the bad voice acting, clumsy Animations,the nonexistence of the new technologies of 3d rendering and others…  ,

i remember i read some poster commenting back then about Yesterday (the Adventure) saying something like ” that its not convenient that a game released in 2012 without Voice acting for game playing i am dropping it” , and such things sounds so unforgiving.

i hope made Number 4 Clear Enough, and excuse me English for the million Time

     
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1. Definition of adventure gaming
Problem solving within a narrative using logic and exploration.

2. Three great adventures after ‘98
Gabriel Knight 3 - an all-time cult classic, the last true adventure of the golden age
Omikron: The Nomad Soul - the first and the last new-age adventure that was followed by many sandbox driving/action games, but not adventures
Machinarium - if you need a prove that ags are still kicking it by this day, here it is

3. Is it about time for an evolution
When someone mentions revolutionary games that changed the face of the genre in 00s, I start remembering Blade Runner, The Last Express, Alone in the Dark, Omikron and other unique games from 90s. Those few experiments from 00’s are nothing compared to these. So yeah, there’s nothing wrong with different styles, until they represent ag (and I still don’t see how Portal games are adventures).

4. Flawed modern adventures
A little effort was put into many modern adventure games, so I honestly don’t see how and why they should be praised, even for the sake of the future (which looks pretty good right now). So yeah, I may be called unforgiving I guess.

5. Concerning the Sierra and Lucas era
I think LucasArts had more impact on the genre (unfortunately) if we are talking about graphical adventures. But King’s Quest 1 was surely the most influential game of it’s time. Cyan topped both of them (even more unfortunately).

5. Other Games than Adventures
I like action games, platformers and just good games. I don’t know, the %... 40?

6. Fan of the old school
I definitely am. All best adventures were produced in the past.

7. The return of pioneers
I think it’s good news, but we are talking low-budget and niche once again, so it’s not gonna start any new era. Just a breath of fresh air for the sake of nostalgia.

8. The genre 10 years from now
That’s too far-fetched. It’s impossible to predict, since in 10 years all the industry will change completely.

     
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A call For Jack, Marek, Fov, Dale and Steve to participate at this thread as any member here.
it would be fair to hear their opinions also, as the Mods of this respected AG site to take a part and share their visions beside their actual job of moderating the site.

i guess that would be sincerely appreciated   Wink

     
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Advie - 30 June 2012 01:34 AM

1- state your definition of adventure Gaming.


A game where the player progresses through and directly contributes to a story via means of exploration, interaction, conversation and puzzle solving. The emphasis lies with the player’s ability to trigger the appropriate cause and effect to advance the story rather than overcoming obstacles unrelated to the main story.

2- name Three Adventures after ‘98 which could be considered great as a step/prove toward the genre that Adventures is alive and has big base of spectators around the world , may actually represent the golden age even on a small scale.


Ace Attorney, L.A. Noire, Tales of Monkey Island

3- are you with the saying that it is about time for an evolution to Adventuring Games (stacking,Portal2) or you still prefer the the Classic formula the way it is?
a] evolution then do you see it just as an alternative/variation inside the Genre box or as the eventual necessarily change for the future of it
b]classic formula is it just because of you nostalgic and maybe you can not see Adventures produced otherwise, and its a genre that hardly could be expand or it will lose its charm .


I don’t even consider Portal 2 an adventure game. Nothing you do actually contributes to the development of the story. You’re just solving puzzles that aren’t related to the what’s happening over the intercom. If Portal 2 is an adventure game, you could say the same thing about Command and Conquer. You do a mission, watch a cut scene. Do a mission, watch a cut scene.

I prefer adventure games where my actions drive the story forward. True cause and effect. I’d prefer an evolution that respects that notion of adventuring along with a depth exploration and challenge rather then polishing other genres so much that they may appear as adventure games.

4- are you so unforgiving to the new Adventures which are mostly related to lots of Cons/flaws and their effect upon the adventure scene or you dont care as long as there are a Productions and adventures are still being developed .


I want developers aiming to create the best product they can. If they skimp out on interaction, or the puzzles are ludicrous, or the voice acting sucks - it will not make me happy.

Concerning the Sierra and Lucas era :
do you consider one of them had a greatest impact over the other (the genre in General)  or their Impact (together) should never can be separated.


LucasArts pioneered in design, Sierra pioneered in technology. I tend to side with Sierra on “who made a larger impact” though. I mean, Ken Williams INVENTED dithered rendering, Sierra was putting their games on CD-Rom in the late 80s, Police Quest III was the first game with a film composer, Gabriel Knight is the first game with Hollywood quality voice acting. My God, THE SIERRA NETWORK.

Then again, Maniac Mansion is HUGE for changing the conventions of adventure and it was a change adventure games needed to still have some impact and fan base today. Graphical adventures would have faded away like the text adventure without that change in interface. So I understand why someone would side with LucasArts.

Do you play other Games than Adventures:
a]. (yes) what is the parentage of them at this variation.
b]. (no) Is because you just hate other genres (shooting,strategy,action….) and dont find your self never in them.


Yes. I like platformers, action adventure, sandbox, JRPGs, beat ‘em ups and puzzlers. Percentage is like 90% other games/10% adventure.

do you see yourself as a supporter/fan of the genre ,a loyal and fulluy appreciate the 2d pixel-ed adventures that would had been produced 20 years ago, or you just prefer to live of the current technology/evolution and abort all outdated ones.

I always recommend that games use the latest technology unless it doesn’t look good. I’ll play anything. I can appreciate good artistry with old tech.

how do you see the genre 10 years from now. ( big production Games selling millions of copies or nothing but some Fans games (Indies and freewares)


Struggling. But I’ll be a household name in game design by then so we’ll see how popular the genre is. Tongue

     
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1- state your definition of adventure Gaming.

I subscribe to the AG deinition in that Adventure games are a 3 point triangle involving storytelling, exploration, and puzzle solving. Every game has a different mix of these 3 points. In general combat and action are not included, but i’m not adverse to mixing the genres and adding some action to the mix.

Like Robertha said “My definition of an adventure game is an interactive story set with puzzles and obstacles to solve and worlds to explore.”

2- name Three Adventures after ‘98 which could be considered great as a step/prove toward the genre that Adventures is alive and has big base of spectators around the world , may actually represent the golden age even on a small scale.

I think there is way more than 3. The Professor Layton games, amongst others, pushed the DS and handheld gaming, Heavy Rain and LA Noire pushed console gaming forwards and we cannot underestimate the effect Telltale and it’s episodic model has had on the genre.

Even on the classical side there has been games like Book of Unwritten Tales, Gemini Rue and The Runaway series etc. There has still been a few decent releases every year.

3- are you with the saying that it is about time for an evolution to Adventuring Games (stacking,Portal2) or you still prefer the the Classic formula the way it is?

a] evolution then do you see it just as an alternative/variation inside the Genre box or as the eventual necessarily change for the future of it
b]classic formula is it just because of you nostalgic and maybe you can not see Adventures produced otherwise, and its a genre that hardly could be expand or it will lose its charm .

Always a bit of both. Games and other forms of entertainment should never stand still there should always be a willingness to push boundaries and evolve the medium in various directions. Things that stand still tend to be left behind.

Evolution can mean a multitude of things and not just gameplay.

I’ve always thought we should evolve in storyline. Move away from the standard crime investigation mechanic and move it into other areas. Imagine a game set in a high school where you have to be the new guy/girl in school, dealing with the popular kids and the jocks. Push the story into dealing with drugs, drinking, sex, bullying and other teenage problems. Or maybe a romantic comedy game where you could play as either party and negotiate the dating game. Or even play as a journalist uncovering a government conspiracy like Watergate, or a political game where you are the president of the United States and have to get through some crisis or just negotiate the politcal backtabbing (West Wing stlye).

Evolve the delivery method. This is already happening with more episodic and digital delivery options.

Evolve the interface. More realtime 3D (in first or third perspective) and direct controls or maybe make the 2D point and click interface more context intuitive and less of a one click does everthing that it seems to have evolved into.

Evolve the AI. Make characters less stationary and stiff, make their responses more fluid and their behaviour more realistic to your actions. Have more than one solution to the puzzles depending on whether you pissed off a character. I.E maybe you try to bribe a cop to gain entry to a scene and he will remember that attempt went badly next time you speak and become less helpful. You have to find another way in.

I think there is a lot of room for growth, just maybe not the financial reality to afford to try any of it.

4- are you so unforgiving to the new Adventures which are mostly related to lots of Cons/flaws and their effect upon the adventure scene or you dont care as long as there are a Productions and adventures are still being developed .

I applaud anything that tries something new. People will argue as to whether it is an adventure game of not, but I don’t care as long as it is a good game. Portal 2 is a superb game whether it is or isn’t a pure adventure game. Like a lot of games it has borrowed elements from the genre and built something new.

If things didn’t evolve we would all still be living in caves or listening to tape decks.

5- Concerning the Sierra and Lucas era :
do you consider one of them had a greatest impact over the other (the genre in General)  or their Impact (together) should never can be separated.

I think Sierra originally had more of an impact on Lucas, because I think the early Lucas games were a direct opposition to the Sierra model when they made the games without death scenes.

However they both had a huge effect on the genre as a whole and probably were instumental in the boom in the early 90’s In the end I don’t think their contribution can be seperated. They influened so many developers and continmue to do so.

Personally I was always more of a Lucasfilm fan, but Sierra made some superb games.

     

An adventure game is nothing more than a good story set with engaging puzzles that fit seamlessly in with the story and the characters, and looks and sounds beautiful.
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5- Do you play other Games than Adventures:
a]. (yes) what is the parentage of them at this variation.
b]. (no) Is because you just hate other genres (shooting,strategy,action….) and dont find your self never in them.

I own probably every major gaming platform available and probably have since the days of the Amiga and the SNES.

Most of my gaming has probably drifted more to the non-Adventure genre in the last few years although I still bought adventure games they mostly sat unplayed. I have made an effort this year to rekindle my gaming and have played a lot of classics this year. (See Lucien21’s Gaming Journal)


6- do you see yourself as a supporter/fan of the genre ,a loyal and fulluy appreciate the 2d pixel-ed adventures that would had been produced 20 years ago, or you just prefer to live of the current technology/evolution and abort all outdated ones.

I support adventure games of all types as long as they are good games. While I would probably prefer that they use current technology (Thet could still mean 2D etc) I can see that games like Gemini Rue and Resonance are still achieving result through strong story telling etc which allows people accept the graphical style.


7- the return of some famous pioneers developers to the scene once again can you see it as a risk (a 2 sided weapon) that will either be start to another golden age of Adventuring or would it be nothing but like taking the last breath and effort into the history of the Genre (with as Big rushed overdosed failure)

I think it can do nothing other than advertise the genre and I hope that this attracts people to play the other games. I don’t think it will launch another golden age, but it could lift the sales enough to get publishers to maybe take the genre serious again.

However you are correct in that it is potentially a double edged sword. What they are making is retro and not pushing the genre forward. There is a possibility that it will highlight that the genre no longer has relevance and people are only basking in nostalgia.


8- how do you see the genre 10 years from now. ( big production Games selling millions of copies or nothing but some Fans games (Indies and freeware

It will be somthing of both probably similar to what it is now. Steam and other digital providers will dominate. Possibly it will all be cloud based where you are connecting to a service that you play games on. Imagine an Adventure gaming site where you log in and could play any game from history streaming to you computer.

Most game will be lower budget than the big spectacular blockbusters, but occassionaly we may get an LA Noire type big budget game.

Longer term it will be interesting to see where the gaming industy is in 10-30 years never mind the Adventure genre.

Next year will see the release of the next gen consoles, but we are possibly getting near the limit of graphical technology. Once it is easy to make games that a completely photorealistic and believable then the industry will have to switch to something else to drive it forward. I think it will be more into VR type full immersion technology and tactile controls. Games will become complete worlds which you can inhabit. I think the ability to completly immerse yourself in a world will push narrative to the forefront and there could be a possibility of some kind of adventure style game. Imagine stepping into Gabes shoes in Gabriel Knight and really living one of those games. (Ok now I’m just dreaming, but it could happen…..maybe)

     

An adventure game is nothing more than a good story set with engaging puzzles that fit seamlessly in with the story and the characters, and looks and sounds beautiful.
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1. Definition of adventure gaming

Interactive stories in which narrative-inherent obstacles and/or puzzles are overcome primarily by using logic, wit, exploration and conversation. Gameplay is for the most part not reliant on reflexes.

I’m loving this definition:

thejobloshow - 30 June 2012 10:24 PM

A game where the player progresses through and directly contributes to a story via means of exploration, interaction, conversation and puzzle solving. The emphasis lies with the player’s ability to trigger the appropriate cause and effect to advance the story rather than overcoming obstacles unrelated to the main story.


2. Three adventures post 1998

There’s a lot more than just three adventures post ‘98 that can show that the adventure game genre is still alive and kicking. How about I give three categories instead:

- Handheld gaming: the DS showed that handheld devices are a pretty good way to play adventure games, and a lot of really great titles were released for it (most of them highly successful): the Phoenix Wright series, the Professor Layton series, Hotel Dusk & Last Window, Ghost Trick, Time Hollow, 999, etc.
With lots of games being released (and some even remade) for iPhones and iPads and other handheld devices, there is certainly a future for adventure games there.

- Console gaming / hybrids: X-Boxes and Playstations are not really ideal for point-and-click adventures, so the genre evolved somewhat to gain access to the more popular consoles. Gameplay shifted towards controllers instead of the traditional keyboard+mouse combo, resulting in adventure games that rely on quick time events (Indigo Prophecy, Heavy Rain, The Walking Dead) or hybrids that combine adventure with other genres like shooters, platformers, etc. (the Portal games, L.A. Noire).

- Low-budget adventures: after the decline of adventure games, the importance of indie developers and low- (or even no-)budget adventure games made by enthusiasts skyrocketed. Whether the games were made by a small team with their own engine (Gray Matter, Machinarium, Botanicula) or by a single person using a free engine like AGS (Gemini Rue, To the Moon, Resonance), there have been plenty of examples of well-written and well-made adventure games that show you don’t need AAA-budgets…

If you still want me to name three games, then I’ll pick what I consider the most successful (both in quality and sales) of each category:
- Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney
- Heavy Rain
- Machinarium


3. Evolution vs. Classic formula

Both. Evolution is necessary for longevity, especially since technology evolves rapidly and opens up lots of new possibilities, but if an old tried-and-true approach has proven successful in the past, why not keep most of its elements? Traditional point-and-click still has the capacity for plenty of quality games, as proven by the very recent success of Chains of Satinav and Resonance.
Having said that, evolution is also good, because it has the innate ability to broaden and diversify the genre. And you can never have enough of original novel ideas, even if their implementation is flawed. It can help to keep things “fresh”, and in the current age, could possibly entice non-adventure-gamers to come over to our side…

Basically this:

millenia - 30 June 2012 04:34 AM

I prefer both. There’s nothing wrong with the old school point and click but I’m open for more new ideas, even if sometimes they don’t work perfectly. Some of the non-traditional adventures are my favourites but I’m still totally rooting for every old school game they make. (It’s the same with RPGs, I really love those old turn-based fighting systems and I don’t understand why they need to reinvent the combat for every new game. There can be twists, they can scrap random encounters, but they don’t need to get rid of the turns as they make the battles tactical instead of just hectic.)


4. Unforgiving towards new adventures

When you do something, you have to do it well. That goes for everything, and thus also for adventure games. If you make an adventure game, then you have to make a good game, otherwise what’s the point? Nobody enjoys playing bad games, just like nobody enjoys watching a bad movie or listening to bad music.
If there are budget constraints, then I can easily overlook low-res graphics or low production values (like no voice acting, no cutscenes or static ones, etc.). As long as the game is well-written (story is of the highest importance) and has well-integrated puzzles, then chances are that I’m going to like the game a lot.
And if I criticize, it’s not because I’m unforgiving, it’s just that I expect a quality game…


5. Sierra vs. LucasArts

I’m not much of a Sierra-fan (because I don’t like all the deaths and dead ends in most of their games), and I’ve always adored LucasArts, but when asked about the impact, I think I’m going to have to say that Sierra had the bigger impact.
Sierra more or less “invented” the genre (at the very least they invented graphic adventures) and they always pushed for technological breakthroughs and heck, without Sierra there wouldn’t be any LucasArts adventures.
LucasArts had better game design, though, and their games are probably more influential nowadays than the Sierra games are…


...continued in the next post.

     

Last played: Marvel’s Spider-Man - 4.5/5 | Freddi Fish 3: The Case of the Stolen Conch Shell - 3/5 | There Is No Game: Wrong Dimension (CPT) - 4/5 | There Is No Game (replay) - 4/5 | Broken Sword: The Shadow of the Templars (replay) - 3/5 | Lighthouse: The Dark Being (CPT) - 2.5/5 | Anna’s Quest (CPT) - 4.5/5 | Simon the Sorcerer II: The Lion, the Wizard and the Wardrobe - 4/5 | Florence - 4/5 | Alice Trapped in Wonderland - 1/5 | The Hunt for the Lost Ship - 1.5/5 | The Talos Principle - 4/5 | Tex Murphy: Martian Memorandum - 3/5 | Danganronpa: Trigger Happy Havoc - 3/5 | Simon the Sorcerer (replay) - 4/5 | Portal 2 - 4/5 | Murder By Numbers - 3.5/5 | Heavy Rain - 3.5/5 | Disco Elysium - 4.5/5 | Freddi Fish 2: The Case of the Haunted Schoolhouse - 3/5

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6. Other games

I like a lot of different genres and have played nearly all of them in the past. Nowadays I mostly play RPGs (BioWare in particular) and sports games (football, tennis and golf in particular). Besides adventures, that is.

Put into percentages, I think about 66% of all games I play are adventure games, but it’s probably closer to 33% if you look at the actual game-time. RPGs tend to be a LOT longer than adventure games, and most sports games are basically infinite (so I play them until I get bored with them).


7. Fan of the old school

I don’t want to abort any of the old games. What was a good game in the early 90s can easily still be a good game now. Besides, old school point-and-click still has a lot of appeal, and plenty of new games are still being made that way. That doesn’t mean that I don’t enjoy games that seek to include new elements and evolve the genre however.
The quality of the game is more important than its year of release and/or the technology it used.

I have however moved past text parsers. I just can’t bring myself to replay any old games that still use them. I don’t mind clicking the verbs à la Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis, but I simply don’t want to type the commands. Probably laziness more than anything else, but still… Smile

And I fully agree with this:

Lucien21 - 01 July 2012 07:06 AM

I support adventure games of all types as long as they are good games. While I would probably prefer that they use current technology (Thet could still mean 2D etc) I can see that games like Gemini Rue and Resonance are still achieving result through strong story telling etc which allows people accept the graphical style.


8. Return of the pioneers

The return of the pioneers is a great thing for the genre, and it will definitely advertise it and maybe even attract some new gamers. I still don’t think we’ll ever outgrow being a ‘niche’ genre, just maybe a bigger niche. The 90s are over, and I don’t think adventures will ever be mainstream again.
A lot of the impact of “the big return” depends on the quality of the games delivered. If the Kickstarted games turn out to be mediocre, it could potentially harm the genre, even pushing us back ten years again. But if the games turn out to be great, then they could easily become highly successful and bring forth a new (albeit a lot smaller) Golden Age.
Most of the pressure lies with Tim Schafer and Double Fine, though. They had the biggest exposure by far, so they’re the ones that will have the biggest impact.

However, the lack of innovation that will be present within these games will be great for the nostalgia factor, but it’ll also downscale the overall impact these games have on new audiences.

But let us all remain cautiously optimistic. After all, these are exciting times for adventure gamers…


9. Genre 10 years from now

This is difficult to predict. The technology that’s available evolves, the gaming platforms evolve, and the market evolves. 3D rendering has gone from extremely blocky to nearly photorealistic in ten years, cell phones have gone from being screenless bricks to being miniature versatile computers. Adventure games went from blooming to dead in just two years and it took ten years to become an established niche again.

Given that I don’t think the genre will explode in popularity ever again (see 8.), I don’t think a whole lot is going to change with adventure games in the future.
We’ll probably get 1 or 2 AAA-games each year, while seeing plenty of other AAA-games borrow heavily from the adventure genre (similar to now). We’ll probably get 5-6 good adventure games that had a medium budget, and still a lot of very low-budget indie games (of which about 5-6 really good ones each year).
That’s similar to what we get now, I think, maybe with a bit more “medium budget”-type games…


On another note:

Advie - 30 June 2012 07:05 PM

A call For Jack, Marek, Fov, Dale and Steve to participate at this thread as any member here.
it would be fair to hear their opinions also, as the Mods of this respected AG site to take a part and share their visions beside their actual job of moderating the site.

i guess that would be sincerely appreciated   Wink

How about you give your own opinion on these questions as well?

It’s an interesting topic with some interesting questions, so the more people that answer them, the better. And I think the person that asked the questions in the first place should also give his viewpoint… Wink

     

Last played: Marvel’s Spider-Man - 4.5/5 | Freddi Fish 3: The Case of the Stolen Conch Shell - 3/5 | There Is No Game: Wrong Dimension (CPT) - 4/5 | There Is No Game (replay) - 4/5 | Broken Sword: The Shadow of the Templars (replay) - 3/5 | Lighthouse: The Dark Being (CPT) - 2.5/5 | Anna’s Quest (CPT) - 4.5/5 | Simon the Sorcerer II: The Lion, the Wizard and the Wardrobe - 4/5 | Florence - 4/5 | Alice Trapped in Wonderland - 1/5 | The Hunt for the Lost Ship - 1.5/5 | The Talos Principle - 4/5 | Tex Murphy: Martian Memorandum - 3/5 | Danganronpa: Trigger Happy Havoc - 3/5 | Simon the Sorcerer (replay) - 4/5 | Portal 2 - 4/5 | Murder By Numbers - 3.5/5 | Heavy Rain - 3.5/5 | Disco Elysium - 4.5/5 | Freddi Fish 2: The Case of the Haunted Schoolhouse - 3/5

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TimovieMan - 03 July 2012 04:28 PM

How about you give your own opinion on these questions as well?

It’s an interesting topic with some interesting questions, so the more people that answer them, the better. And I think the person that asked the questions in the first place should also give his viewpoint… Wink

That is quite a shame and really embarrassing for me isn’t it Timovieman? Grin, i am actually dying to give mine but the truth is that i have much to say and because of my English (i am quite sure) my opinion will be worst of all Mini Smile, i had a hell of a time trying to phrase those 9 Points, correctly ....

so i was thinking more of 2 things
1- make a summary to all the previous post (and the upcoming if their will be more) and then to Quote parts of them and make it as a reference to my opinion too/as well ...
2-  i actually will make my original post anyways, i already have an opened/saved Notepad that i am writing down in it my opinion ,or but i am still far from ready being satisfied to post it yet. Sick

     
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Advie - 30 June 2012 01:34 AM

1- state your definition of adventure Gaming.

A story driven game where you progress through use of logic and careful thinking, and when that fails, through trial and error.
But i can also subscribe to the definition of a 3 point triangle, though i don’t find exploration equally important, and i hate games that include combat and action.

Lucien21 - 01 July 2012 06:44 AM

I subscribe to the AG deinition in that Adventure games are a 3 point triangle involving storytelling, exploration, and puzzle solving. Every game has a different mix of these 3 points. In general combat and action are not included, but i’m not adverse to mixing the genres and adding some action to the mix.

Like Robertha said “My definition of an adventure game is an interactive story set with puzzles and obstacles to solve and worlds to explore.”

Advie - 30 June 2012 01:34 AM

2- name Three Adventures after ‘98 which could be considered great as a step/prove toward the genre that Adventures is alive and has big base of spectators around the world , may actually represent the golden age even on a small scale.

The Longest Journey, Discworld Noir and the Sam & Max series.
Truth be told, i only mention Discworld noir because it is one of my favorite games, but both TLJ and Sam&Max; are very important games, that have a big influence on later games.

Advie - 30 June 2012 01:34 AM

3- are you with the saying that it is about time for an evolution to Adventuring Games (stacking,Portal2) or you still prefer the the Classic formula the way it is?

Nothing is static, if you don’t evolve you become estinct Pan
Evolution is however not the same thing as revolution, it doesn’t mean that the genre has to be reinvented, and everything has to change. Evolution is usually done in small steps, with many small improvements that accumulate over time, and that is also what i want for AG, small improvements here and there without changing the basic formular.

Advie - 30 June 2012 01:34 AM

4- are you so unforgiving to the new Adventures which are mostly related to lots of Cons/flaws and their effect upon the adventure scene or you dont care as long as there are a Productions and adventures are still being developed.

As long as the game has a good story and well designed puzzles, then i can forgive almost everything else. I think it is important that there are a high production of new games, by sheer chance some of them are bound to be excellent, and i can forgive the rest.

Advie - 30 June 2012 01:34 AM

5- Concerning the Sierra and Lucas era :
do you consider one of them had a greatest impact over the other (the genre in General) or their Impact (together) should never can be separated.

I think Sierra have had the greatest impact, simply because they were first, if it wasn’t for Sierra i don’t think AG would had become as popular as they were (are?), but lucasArt also deserves a honorable mention.

Advie - 30 June 2012 01:34 AM

6- Do you play other Games than Adventures:

Yes i also play strategy games and mmorpg, about 60% AG and 40% other games.

Advie - 30 June 2012 01:34 AM

7- do you see yourself as a supporter/fan of the genre ,a loyal and fulluy appreciate the 2d pixel-ed adventures that would had been produced 20 years ago, or you just prefer to live of the current technology/evolution and abort all outdated ones.

Somewhere in the middle of the two extremes.
I do occasional play older games, if i didn’t play them when they were originally released, but some of the oldest are really outdated, and i prefer more modern games with better graphics and voice acting. (I really can’t live without voice acting anymore)

Advie - 30 June 2012 01:34 AM

8- the return of some famous pioneers developers to the scene once again can you see it as a risk (a 2 sided weapon) that will either be start to another golden age of Adventuring or would it be nothing but like taking the last breath and effort into the history of the Genre (with as Big rushed overdosed failure)

I think the jury is still out on this one.
It will most likely be neither of the two extremes that you describe, but somewhere in the middle.

Advie - 30 June 2012 01:34 AM

9- how do you see the genre 10 years from now. ( big production Games selling millions of copies or nothing but some Fans games (Indies and freewares)

Good question - I haven’t got a clue:)
I hope that the genre will be alive and kicking, with big productions and millions of copies sold, but it might be an unrealistic hope.
I think (or hope) that the development costs will decrease, so you don’t have to sell millions of copies to pay for the development.

     

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1. An adventure game is a game whose basic gameplay is derivative of Adventure by Will Crowther. This includes a basic element of exploration, inventory collection and use, and a degree of scripted, unique interactions with the world to create artificial puzzles.

I has NOTHING to do with the literary “adventure” genre, or going on an adventure, journey, or quest. It’s named for the game Adventure.

2. Machinarium, Tales of Monkey Island, Ben There Dan That. I don’t think there have been any notable improvement or evolutions in adventure game design since that time, though.

3. I think it is time for the genre to evolve, but that games like Portal 2 are not an evolution of the adventure genre. We largely abandoned attempts to evolve the genre in favor of efforts to dumb down the genre. Gamers have not gotten dumber, and this is the wrong approach.

4. Most adventure games that come out don’t interest me, so I don’t care either way.

5. I think Sierra’s contributions were fundamental and almost universal. LucasArts’ innovations were important refinements on that.

6. Yeah, I play all kinds of games. Adventure games are not really my favored genre, though they might have been in their heyday. I have a strong preference for comedies, and I feel the quality of comedic adventures in particular is very low right now.

8. I think that it will at least go a long way toward proving to publushers/investors that writers are extremely important to the adventure game market, and that adventure games from proven talent are a better investment than the genre as a whole. I think that’s really important because we’ve seen mishandled series like LSL where they just didn’t understand why Al Lowe was an important part of the equation.

It’s easy to understand why. Writers are fairly replaceable in every other genre. But adventure games are an exception and I hope these Kickstarter projects prove that point.

9. I don’t think we’ll see the genre grow beyond a niche, but I think publishers will come to better understand the importance of niches and having a diverse lineup of titles that target many different audiences. So I see adventure games being better supported than they are now, with a handful of crossover titles that sell very well, but not necessarily “mainstream.”

     
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Lucien21 - 01 July 2012 06:44 AM

1- state your definition of adventure Gaming.

3 point triangle involving storytelling, exploration, and puzzle solving. Every game has a different mix of these 3 points. In general combat and action are not included//
^ This.

 

Sefir - 01 July 2012 06:44 AM

2- Three great adventures after ‘98

-  The Longset Journey
-  Syberia
-  Machinarium
^ This.

 

thejobloshow - 01 July 2012 06:44 AM

3 - Evolution vs. classicism

I’d prefer an evolution that respects that notion of adventuring along with a depth exploration and challenge rather then polishing other genres so much that they may appear as adventure games.
^ This.

 

millenia - 01 July 2012 06:44 AM

4- Cons vs. don’t care

I’m a quite a big Wadjet-Eye fan myself and while I certainly wouldn’t mind those games in high-res either, this is perfectly fine for me.
^ This.

 

TimovieMan - 01 July 2012 06:44 AM

5- Sierra vs. LucasArts

Sierra more or less “invented” the genre (at the very least they invented graphic adventures) and they always pushed for technological breakthroughs and heck, without Sierra there wouldn’t be any LucasArts adventures.
^ This.

 

Oscar - 01 July 2012 06:44 AM

6- Do you play other Games than Adventures:

Maybe 10-20% other genres.
^ This

 

_____ - 01 July 2012 06:44 AM

7- do you see yourself as a supporter/fan of the genre

 

Lucien21 - 01 July 2012 06:44 AM

8- The return of some famous pioneers developers to the scene

However you are correct in that it is potentially a double edged sword. What they are making is retro and not pushing the genre forward. There is a possibility that it will highlight that the genre no longer has relevance and people are only basking in nostalgia.
^ This.

 

thejobloshow - 01 July 2012 06:44 AM

9- The genre 10 years from now

Struggling!!
^ This.

     

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