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Sequels vs originals

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Donuts McGee - 22 April 2020 08:15 AM

I agree with you on Black Mirror. Dark Fall 2 surprised me, it had an emotional component which moved me and therefore I rate it higher than 1, whose story was fairly standard ghost story fare.

Did you play the original release or the director’s cut of DF 2 first? I have a feeling I might have viewed the game differently in comparison with DF 1 if I had played the DC first. The original release was such a disappointment. The DC almost felt like a different game, but alas the damage was already done.

     
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Vehelon - 21 April 2020 05:46 AM

Really? Even with PQ2, Monkey 2, Day of The Tentacle, Gobliins 2, Journeyman Project 2, QFG2, Discworld 2, Conquests of the Longbow, GK2?

What? You include DW2 on that list? With Noir, you could have made a case, but DW2… I will be repeating myself now for people that have been here long, but… That’s one of the biggest disappointments I’ve had with a game. I really liked the first one despite its faults (it was my introduction to Pratchett), and the sequel completely failed to live up to my expectations.

First, the graphics. This is subjective, but I don’t like the change in style. That’s mostly subjective though, and I tried to look past it.

Then, the music. For many years after playing it, I could sing almost all the themes from the first game, and I still remember many of them, a quarter of a century later. It has lots of fun melodies. The sequel, despite having the same composer almost didn’t have any. “Hooray, we’re no longer stuck with MIDI. Let’s do atmospheric soundscapes!” I missed the tunes. The death song was good, but way too overused.

The humour. Another subjective area, I know. A big reason why I loved the first game so much was that it was my first. My first Pratchett, and my first adventure game. But it was very funny. The sequel mostly did things that Monty Python had done better before.

It also had a game breaking bug, where some characters would disappear. I was stuck for a long time until I looked at a walkthrough only to find that I should talk to someone that didn’t exist in the game! That soured my experience of it quite a bit too.

Do I have a point, besides wanting to rant for a while? A sequel carries with it expectations, for better or worse. It would have been hard for the game to meet my expectations as a sequel to my favourite game, so there was a lot of potential for disappointment. But on the other hand, a reason sequels exist is that they also get a lot of free investment from the player. Here’s more of this thing that I already like.

And I’d also like to add that Simon the Sorcerer 2 is better than the first (which I didn’t really like - I found Simon too unlikeable), and StS3 is better than the first two put together. I actually quite liked that one. I guess it’s unplayable now that computers no longer have optical drives? Controversial opinion, I know, but I stand by it. Glad to see GateKeeper on my side here!

Also glad that you included GK2 in your list of good sequels. That’s a really good one. Smile

I’ve barely played any modern sequels off Diego’s list, and there are very few of them I have any interest in. As a general rule, I’d prefer something original.

     

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Trumgottist - 22 April 2020 04:58 PM
Vehelon - 21 April 2020 05:46 AM

Really? Even with PQ2, Monkey 2, Day of The Tentacle, Gobliins 2, Journeyman Project 2, QFG2, Discworld 2, Conquests of the Longbow, GK2?

Do I have a point, besides wanting to rant for a while?

Yes. I personally prefer DW1 but I still consider 2 a good sequel. Compare that with movies where you rarely find even a competent sequel, which was the point of the original post.

Simon 2 - Again, I prefer 1. Simon’s snarkiness was 90% of the game, and it vanished in 2. But I’ve heard of many people who like 2 better for that reason.

 

     
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Veovis - 22 April 2020 04:42 PM
Donuts McGee - 22 April 2020 08:15 AM

I agree with you on Black Mirror. Dark Fall 2 surprised me, it had an emotional component which moved me and therefore I rate it higher than 1, whose story was fairly standard ghost story fare.

Did you play the original release or the director’s cut of DF 2 first? I have a feeling I might have viewed the game differently in comparison with DF 1 if I had played the DC first. The original release was such a disappointment. The DC almost felt like a different game, but alas the damage was already done.

You’re right - it was the DC. I had forgotten about that, thanks for the reminder.

     

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Dangaronpa had great sequels - the review scores reflect that:

Dangaronpa 82

Dangaronpa 2 - 81

Dangaronpa V3 - 81


Some series can indeed hold their quality in subsequent releases.


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I enjoy playing adventure games on handheld systems- PS VITA, Nintendo DS and ipad mini.

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Vehelon - 22 April 2020 06:43 PM
Trumgottist - 22 April 2020 04:58 PM
Vehelon - 21 April 2020 05:46 AM

Really? Even with PQ2, Monkey 2, Day of The Tentacle, Gobliins 2, Journeyman Project 2, QFG2, Discworld 2, Conquests of the Longbow, GK2?

Do I have a point, besides wanting to rant for a while?

Yes. I personally prefer DW1 but I still consider 2 a good sequel. Compare that with movies where you rarely find even a competent sequel, which was the point of the original post.

Simon 2 - Again, I prefer 1. Simon’s snarkiness was 90% of the game, and it vanished in 2. But I’ve heard of many people who like 2 better for that reason.

Even a ‘good sequel’ is actually very high praise, when you consider the nostalgia factor plays a huge part.

Take Monkey Island. I always say The Secret of Monkey Island is my favorite, but it is a better game than LeChuck’s Revenge? I don’t think so. It’s because SoMI affected me greatly as the first adventure game I played as a child, and I remember distinctly with great fondness the night lighting in the harbor of Mêlée Town, almost being able to feel the warm sand on the island Guybrush washed up on after making the recipe aboard the ship.

How could any sequel compete with those memories? I don’t think they could, no matter how ‘good’ the game itself is.

     
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Because I more or less got into adventure gaming as an adult in the 21st century, my experience in terms of playing through a series is going to be different from some of your experiences.

The thread kind of opened with a mention of how movie sequels tend to get be worse than the original, but video game sequels can go either way.

The experience of a movie has largely unchanged for the better part of a century.  Yes technological advances make special effects much easier to produce, but for the most part, the audience is passively taking in the experience.

A video game is different because when a break-through in game design is made, really the entire industry reacts to it, and benefits from it in making entirely new audience experiences.  Before I even get into adventure games, do you remember when the only mainstream board games had ‘roll a dice to see how far you move’ mechanics?  A lot of modern board games did away with them.  It was a design choice that made sense at the time, but later just doesn’t anymore.

Similarly it would be really challenging for a new comer to make sense of KQ1 as compared to 6, and that’s why I think those remakes of adventure games like KQ 1-3, or QFG 1 were so well received. They took classic games and brought them to more modern design sensibilities that modern gamers would already understand.

So for me in my personal experience, most games in a series get better throughout the series.  (obviously 3d era made things go… wonky for a bit)

And it makes sense even as programmers/developers learn lessons, they try to avoid making the same mistake over and over.

I totally understand the nostalgia angle for those of you that have it. 

I really love data, and quantifying things, but when I think about metacritic or really any number-based review system, I take it with a grain of salt.  I know any good reviewer is objective, but what if they have nostalgia, or a game was hyped up, or discovered a game on their own.  All of these things kind of color how I’m going to rate that game.

I would love to say that the nostalgia stuff, and the technological advancements that improve sequels kind of balance each other out, but do they?

     
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GateKeeper - 22 April 2020 03:10 AM

is there any developer that has maintained same quality throughout a series of games?

And even more interesting question is, how does the quality of the games change when different developers work on the same subject matter, like Star Trek, Sherlock Holmes, etc.?

these are two very interesting points GKeeper, esp the 1st; the developers that had maintained their quality thru the years and releases?

I have some views and suggestions over this point as a starter; that this revolves around more than just plain interactive devs and their titles, as much as keeping up with the industrial evolution; what comes to mind 1st of all how Sierra as a leading adventure industry that had have been keeping up with innovations, introducing and applying more competitive production values, or how well-spent the money was form one game to the next like Cyan, using each title’s profit to invest more into the next project or like Technocrat Games which’s their first Technobabylon which was released as a freeware made by AGS to their polished release under Wadjet Eyes. and much many more examples,
GKaeeper, i suggest you start this as a thread on its own before i do Laughing no just kidding, anyhow its a very interesting and an original subject ever been discussed before.

     
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diego - 22 April 2020 04:17 PM

Actually, in the last 5-10 years or so I can’t think of a sequel that got better than the original.

Memoria was definitely better than Chains of Satinav, and I played them one after another during the last community playthrough. Similarly I found The Inner World 2 to be much more fun than the original game.

And thinking of my favourite adventures, I agree with those who say that sequels often turn to be superior. Personally I also prefer Gabriel Knight 3 to the first two games (especially GK2), as well as Goblins 3 to Gobliiins and Gobliins. And Quest for Glory 4 is absolutely the best, although the original text Hero’s Quest is my second favourite in the series.

And that’s not only the case with adventure games. Gothic 2, System Shock 2, Thief 2, maybe even Doom 2 - some of the best games out there.

     

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Legend of Kyrandia is another one - the second game is considerably better than both the game that preceded it and the one that followed it.

     
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Disagree with Ace Attorney being on the list. Overall the first game was definitely better, but Ace Attorney 2 contains the best episode of the whole series.

     
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Blackwell series just gets better and better. Might not be direct chronological order but it’s close at least. Some series definitely develop into the right direction.

     

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Recently finished: The Silent Age, Overland, Before We Leave, Demonheart, SoulSet, Quantum Consciense, Amnesia: Memories
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I loved all the Ace Attorney games. To me, I liked the later ones better due to the improved graphics.

The first, however has the highest ratings.

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I enjoy playing adventure games on handheld systems- PS VITA, Nintendo DS and ipad mini.

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Mikekelly - 25 April 2020 11:14 AM

I loved all the Ace Attorney games. To me, I liked the later ones better due to the improved graphics.

The first, however has the highest ratings.

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Ahh rereading my post it might have been confusing. Ace Attorny appeared on the list where the sequel got a higher rating than the first installment. So I agree with you where I think the first one is the best.

     

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