Adventure Gamers - Forums

McCoy97 - 11 August 2019 01:00 PM

Now can you tell me how exactly are you supposed to know if Sadik is a rep or not? Because like I said earlier I always saw him as a rep and I still do. I didn’t know he can be human.

Like chrissie mentions, in the end you’ll get a different back story if you talk to him outside the moonbus.
But as for earlier clues, if Sadik is Replicant then he is a proficient bomber and McCoy will comment on that when he investigates the bomb scene (at Moraji’s). If he is human, he is sloppy with his “work”. Also, at the start of Act 3, if Sadik is human then McCoy will have a comment about being “staggered by punches” in the KIA, where pretty much he figures Sadik is not a Rep because of how he acted during the fight at the Bradbury roof top.

stroggoff - 11 August 2019 04:49 PM

.....as for earlier clues, if Sadik is Replicant then he is a proficient bomber and McCoy will comment on that when he investigates the bomb scene (at Moraji’s). If he is human, he is sloppy with his “work”. Also, at the start of Act 3, if Sadik is human then McCoy will have a comment about being “staggered by punches” in the KIA, where pretty much he figures Sadik is not a Rep because of how he acted during the fight at the Bradbury roof top.

Thanks for that interesting detail stroggoff. I can’t remember whether it was commented on in my 1st playthrough but certainly on my 2nd every explosion that Sadik caused was deemed to be the work of an amateur & over the top to achieve so much less!

Mikekelly - 11 August 2019 05:42 PM

Finished the game. Yep, act 5 is very short. I retired Clovis on the moon bus. In my game, Lucy was a replicant and I really prefer it that way. Shooting Clovis was my preferred option.

Thank you Chrissie for organizing this CPT.

My pleasure Mikekelly - thank you for your contribution
I hope you’ll hang around to see some of the other comments re alternative endings. 

Definitely agree that Act 5 is very short and anticlimactic.

I actually did almost the same as chrissie and tried both endings, although I’m not sure I’m happy with either of them

I also got the call from Lucy saying that Clovis wanted to meet but that she wanted to go away with me. I met with her first and got the ending leaving away with her. Like you guys have stated, for some reason it doesn’t feel right to leave with a 14 year old.

I reloaded the beginning of the Act and tried the option of going to the Moonbus. In my playthrough it was only Sadik, Clovis and the twins. Zuben and Izo were killed and I think Dektora was human. I liked this ending a bit better, although it still felt off for some reason. I think I played more a middle of the road, nor full Blade runner nor rep sympathizer so it felt weird to all of a sudden join them even though I’ve been chasing them all the game, not to mention the murders

Something that I liked about the game and that it kind of mirrors the movie in that is never explicitly stated whether McCoy is a replicant or not, unless I missed something where you can know for sure. Sure there’s some evidence like the photograph in the Moonbus but I don’t think you can be completely sure. I liked that bit of ambiguity to McCoy’s character.

Oh and gotta love the ending credits with that Vangelis piece

chrissie - 11 August 2019 04:21 PM

I just re-watched Blade runner recently & I’m pretty sure that the Nexus 6 were deliberately given a lifespan of 4 years as a fail-safe. (I could be wrong)  I think the technology at the time perhaps didn’t allow for anything to be done to prolong their lives - well that’s what Tyrell said - would you trust him bearing in mind that he was already breaking the law with Rachael’s presence? 

Last time I watched the movie was just before the release of 2049 so I can’t remember what was said exactly. However I just did some research and read that technology indeed only allowed a lifespan of up to 4 years. Anything beyond that would cause extreme instabilities. Tyrell then thought this could become dangerous as replicants had such limited time to develop, control and manage their emotions, so that’s why he decided to implant memories to make replicants more controllable. So I think if he could design replicants with a much longer lifespan, he would. But unfortunately it was impossible with their current technology.

As for Rachael, I don’t think Tyrell was breaking the law with her. Replicants are illegal on earth but I think they are allowed to exist at the facilities where they were created. Rachael was safe as long as she stayed at Tyrell Corp. In the movie, the moment she left Tyrell Corp was when Deckard was ordered to hunt her down. Also in the movie, remember Bryant knew about Rachael before she became a rogue.

And then in 2049 the ban of replicants on earth were somewhat lifted. Even the police employed replicants.

stroggoff - 11 August 2019 04:49 PM

Like chrissie mentions, in the end you’ll get a different back story if you talk to him outside the moonbus.
But as for earlier clues, if Sadik is Replicant then he is a proficient bomber and McCoy will comment on that when he investigates the bomb scene (at Moraji’s). If he is human, he is sloppy with his “work”. Also, at the start of Act 3, if Sadik is human then McCoy will have a comment about being “staggered by punches” in the KIA, where pretty much he figures Sadik is not a Rep because of how he acted during the fight at the Bradbury roof top.

Sheesh how do you know all these little details? But then I guess because there are those little clues with Gordo and Izo etc, then the rest of the characters have their little clues as well. Like Lucy and the Lolita brochure. Izo is killed if he’s a rep, arrested if not. And then there’s his goggles which proves he’s a rep. Gordo works the same. I guess there’s some sort of clue with his lighter you can pick up but I haven’t figured that one out. Maybe you can shed some light on the lighter? And then what clues are there to look out for with Dektora other than the VK test? And the twins?

danigar - 11 August 2019 10:54 PM

I reloaded the beginning of the Act and tried the option of going to the Moonbus. In my playthrough it was only Sadik, Clovis and the twins. Zuben and Izo were killed and I think Dektora was human. I liked this ending a bit better, although it still felt off for some reason. I think I played more a middle of the road, nor full Blade runner nor rep sympathizer so it felt weird to all of a sudden join them even though I’ve been chasing them all the game, not to mention the murders

The rep sympathizer endings always felt a bit off to me. I much prefer the real Blade Runner endings where you do your job. Unfortunately the vast majority of the endings are for rep sympathizers. Only about 3 of the 13 endings are really for those who do their job.

Something that I liked about the game and that it kind of mirrors the movie in that is never explicitly stated whether McCoy is a replicant or not, unless I missed something where you can know for sure. Sure there’s some evidence like the photograph in the Moonbus but I don’t think you can be completely sure. I liked that bit of ambiguity to McCoy’s character.

Yup McCoy is like Deckard. Sure there are those little clues that McCoy might be a rep like that photo (which could also be fake thanks to Guzza because of the reflection), and also that weird dream with Lucy on what looks like Mars. That could potentially be an implanted memory. All reps have those and some even share the same memories. It is entirely possible that Clovis implanted that memory when he abducted McCoy and the dream McCoy has is actually something he sees through the eyes of Clovis when Clovis and Lucy were living off world on Mars. And then there’s also the scorpions. If McCoy gets stung by the scorpions he survives. The dragonfly lady mentions that its venom is supposed to be lethal. But then later on if the scorpions are at Early Q’s and McCoy sits on them, he can die. So yeah you’re never sure if he’s human or rep. Personally though I think he’s human no matter what. The photo and dream were both fake thanks to Guzza and let’s not forget that McCoy doesn’t actually have superior strength or intellect really lol. Look how easily he gets tossed around by Sadik and even rats can kill him with one bite haha.

Oh and gotta love the ending credits with that Vangelis piece

I don’t think that was them. Great job by whoever did the music in the game and pretty much identical to the original but I don’t think the developers had permission to use Vangelis’ music. None of the music in the game are by Vangelis afaik. I read something like that many years ago.

First, thank you Chrissie for organizing this excellent community playthrough. I’ve had lots of fun even though I still haven’t caught up with the last Act quite yet.

McCoy97 - 12 August 2019 02:51 AM

But then I guess because there are those little clues with Gordo and Izo etc, then the rest of the characters have their little clues as well. Like Lucy and the Lolita brochure. Izo is killed if he’s a rep, arrested if not. And then there’s his goggles which proves he’s a rep. Gordo works the same. I guess there’s some sort of clue with his lighter you can pick up but I haven’t figured that one out. Maybe you can shed some light on the lighter? And then what clues are there to look out for with Dektora other than the VK test? And the twins?

Gordo will leave his lighter at the bar counter when you first talk to him at Taffey’s Night club. If he is a Replicant then the lighter (when you examine it in KIA) will have a writing about the UNDF Rep Unit (lightning squad) that is the same unit that Zuben served (you learn that one from Zuben’s photo). If Gordo is human, then his lighter will produce no comment (it’s a common lighter). Also, Gordo is an entertainment model, and the brochure at Tyrel’s may be about his series instead of the Lolita model (actually he takes precedence over the Lolita model leaflet if Lucy and Gordo are both Replicants). There are slight variations of his dialogue with McCoy too. And there’s a news broadcast about the last few Nexus 5 models (Gordo is a Five!) being recalled because they would either malfunction or according to Tyrell they were not that funny

For the twins I think the biggest clue is the cutscene when they are introduced at start of Act 4; if they are Replicants, Clovis will hand them an incept photo to convince them to work together. If they are not, Clovis will just imply that they are Replicants (they will believe him anyway, but iirc they won’t join the Replicants at the moonbus in this case).

Dektora has most of her clues in the VK test (like the implication that she served in the army). Lucy may say that Dektora is “ill” and also Sadik may mention it in the beginning of Act 3. Also is she is human she won’t run to the attic but rather she will leave the club

stroggoff - 12 August 2019 10:18 AM

For the twins I think the biggest clue is the cutscene when they are introduced at start of Act 4; if they are Replicants, Clovis will hand them an incept photo to convince them to work together. If they are not, Clovis will just imply that they are Replicants (they will believe him anyway, but iirc they won’t join the Replicants at the moonbus in this case).

Seriously? OOPS! In my game Clovis just told them they’re replicants so then that means I killed humans hehe. Not only did I kill them but I shot them multiple times in the back so that they couldn’t destroy the computer. Oh well… I just always assumed they were always reps.

Gordo will leave his lighter at the bar counter when you first talk to him at Taffey’s Night club. If he is a Replicant then the lighter (when you examine it in KIA) will have a writing about the UNDF Rep Unit (lightning squad) that is the same unit that Zuben served (you learn that one from Zuben’s photo). If Gordo is human, then his lighter will produce no comment (it’s a common lighter). Also, Gordo is an entertainment model, and the brochure at Tyrel’s may be about his series instead of the Lolita model (actually he takes precedence over the Lolita model leaflet if Lucy and Gordo are both Replicants). There are slight variations of his dialogue with McCoy too. And there’s a news broadcast about the last few Nexus 5 models (Gordo is a Five!) being recalled because they would either malfunction or according to Tyrell they were not that funny

Cool thanks! I don’t think I ever paid attention to that about the lighter. In my game I know Gordo is definitely human this time because of our chat in the street and the fact that he was arrested instead of him just attacking me. But I always wondered about the lighter. Also in my game McCoy doesn’t say anything about the lighter at all so now I know it’s because Gordo is human.

Dektora has most of her clues in the VK test (like the implication that she served in the army). Lucy may say that Dektora is “ill” and also Sadik may mention it in the beginning of Act 3. Also is she is human she won’t run to the attic but rather she will leave the club

Hmm I wonder if it’s rare for Dektora to be human because in the vast majority of my playthroughs over the years I chased her to the attic. And of course if I do get a result with her VK test she’s usually a rep. Can’t remember the last time she was human.

Thanks man I learned a lot of things I never knew. I think I need to do another quick playthrough to check out all these details and hope the game gives me some different reps/humans. As a rep sympathizer this time ofc.

Is it possible for all these characters to be replicants in one playthrough btw? Lucy, Dektora, Sadik, Gordo, Izo and the twins. I don’t think they can all be human in one game because then the game wouldn’t make much sense.

McCoy97 - 12 August 2019 02:41 AM

Last time I watched the movie was just before the release of 2049 so I can’t remember what was said exactly. However I just did some research and read that technology indeed only allowed a lifespan of up to 4 years. Anything beyond that would cause extreme instabilities. Tyrell then thought this could become dangerous as replicants had such limited time to develop, control and manage their emotions, so that’s why he decided to implant memories to make replicants more controllable. So I think if he could design replicants with a much longer lifespan, he would. But unfortunately it was impossible with their current technology.

Sorry McCoy, I still say that it’s possible that the technology would cause extreme instabilities on trying to extend the lifespan rather than in the development stage.
(There was nothing in the film to suggest that it was impossible, with the current technology, to design replicants with a longer life-span. Just that once they had been designed that the life-span couldn’t be extended but that’s just what Tyrell wanted the relicants to believe?) 

This is the conversation from the film Blade Runner: The Final Cut between Bryant (B) & Deckard (D) about the Nexus 6 replicants:
(B) “They were designed to copy human beings in every way except their emotions.
The designers realised after a few years they might develop their own emotional responses.
Oh, hate, love, fear, anger, envy. So they built in a fail-safe device.”
(D) “Which is what?”
(B) “Four-year lifespan”.

Later on after Deckard VK’s Rachael Tyrell says:
“We began to recognise in them a strange obsession.
After all, they are emotionally inexperienced, with only a few years in which to store up the experiences which you and I take for granted.
If we gift them with a past, we create a pillow for their emotions then consequently we can control them better.”
(D) “Memories. You’re talking about memories”.

I truly think that you shouldn’t have to rely on seeing the film or reading the book that the film is based upon to get a sense of what’s going on in the game but…..

Re the music, according to Wikipedia Westwood acquired the rights to use the original film score by Vangelis but were not allowed access to the original master recordings.  The music was written and produced by Frank Klepacki who had to recreate the music by ear.
So, if you think you’re hearing Vangelis then Frank did a good job! 

McCoy97 - 12 August 2019 11:48 AM

Is it possible for all these characters to be replicants in one playthrough btw? Lucy, Dektora, Sadik, Gordo, Izo and the twins. I don’t think they can all be human in one game because then the game wouldn’t make much sense.

It’s a random chance but they can all be Replicants in a playthrough, yes.
They can never all be human, though, you are right; at least one of Lucy, Dektora and Gordo must always be a Replicant, and Dektora has somewhat better chances to be the one Replicant

chrissie - 12 August 2019 12:05 PM

Sorry McCoy, I still say that it’s possible that the technology would cause extreme instabilities on trying to extend the lifespan rather than in the development stage.

Possible but I’m just going by what I read about the original book actually. In it there’s another android manufacturer and they didn’t know how to manufacture an android capable of living beyond 4 years which to me suggests it’s a technological limitation during development. At least with replicants up to the Nexus 6 series. More modern/advanced replicants like the Nexus 8 and 9 had much longer lifespans. I don’t know about the Nexus 7 because apparently Rachael is the only one and I think she died giving birth. It’s never really mentioned how long she lived.

To me it just doesn’t make sense that Tyrell would design an android with a 4 year lifespan if the technology exists during development to make them last longer. Doesn’t sound like a good business plan. So I believe they have 4 years because that’s the best Tyrell can do with them with the technology available. Of course I could always be talking complete and utter bollocks

stroggoff - 12 August 2019 12:31 PM

It’s a random chance but they can all be Replicants in a playthrough, yes.

So then it’s possible to see all possible replicants in the game as one big happy family in the moonbus at the end? Except for Rachael of course. I’ve never seen that before because I always have at least one or two who are human in my game.

McCoy97 - 12 August 2019 04:15 PM

So then it’s possible to see all possible replicants in the game as one big happy family in the moonbus at the end? Except for Rachael of course. I’ve never seen that before because I always have at least one or two who are human in my game.

It is, but if you do the McCoy is a jerk route and try to shoot them all up in there too, then they may kill you extra quickly in that case. This by the way is super buggy in the original (non-ScummVM) version of the game.

Yup even with just a couple of the reps in the moonbus they can kill you very quickly depending on who’s there. One of the first times I’ve ever played the game I took that route because I thought I had to. I think that’s when you get a slightly different and surprised response from Crystal outside if she’s still alive because she thought you were a rep sympathizer. That’s where the best ammo can be extremely useful. Why do you say it’s buggy in the original btw? Can’t remember that I’ve had any issues