[squarejawhero]

LAUGH? I NEARLY VOMITED!

Back at JA+ I formulated a yearly compo with Agustin called "Misappropriation Of The Term Adventure" Awards. Or MOTTA's.

Guess I've found a niche-based winner.

[mag]

It's Wikipedia. You should edit it.

mag

[Intrepid Homoludens]

You should definitely edit it, squaresie. And make to include something like: "This term of 'first person adventure' is often misappropriated to mean any game that is played in the first person view, such as Half-Life 2 or Halo. In fact, that is the only feature it shares with those games, as 'first person adventure' typically and more accurately describes a puzzle heavy adventure game such as Myst or Post Mortem, where action and combat are not the focus."

[Karmillo]

Originally Posted by Intrepid Homoludens

"...more accurately describes a puzzle heavy adventure game such as Myst or Post Mortem, where action and combat are not the focus."

Post mortem was a FPA?I would have though that it was a third person like still life, ive not played it or seen is so ive no idea :s

[RLacey]

Originally Posted by Intrepid Homoludens

In fact, that is the only feature it shares with those games, as 'first person adventure' typically and more accurately describes a puzzle heavy adventure game

This isn't true . Yes, it's how we'd like the term 'first person adventure' to be defined, but I'd be extremely surprised if it was how the term is 'typically' (ie. most commonly) used.

[Intrepid Homoludens]

Originally Posted by Karmillo

Post mortem was a FPA?I would have though that it was a third person like still life, ive not played it or seen is so ive no idea :s

Yes, it's a node based first person point-&-clicker where all the [non-playable] cutscenes are in third person. It's similar to Lightbringer (Cydonia) and The Messenger.

Originally Posted by RLacey

This isn't true . Yes, it's how we'd like the term 'first person adventure' to be defined, but I'd be extremely surprised if it was how the term is 'typically' (ie. most commonly) used.

Don't you think we have a little more authority as an adventure gaming community in how we define it? Or maybe we're the ones who are clueless about the term's applications?

[Aj_]

I thought it was a FPS/Adventure hybrid, so obviously while shortening the name down someone didn't realise that FPS should have stayed intact otherwise it doesn't make any sense.

[Karmillo]

I think there should be more FPA's like Normality, that worked really well.
IMO its more fun to walk around a 3D world than being stuck to a set path

[Wormsie]

I edited. Let's see how long it stays that way.

[After a brisk nap]

It's a bit close-minded or ignorant, I think, to refuse to acknowledge even the possibility that other people (outside of our adventure community) use other meanings of the term "adventure" that are no less correct than the one we use.

The variant use of "adventure" (for, roughly, Zelda-like games) in the console world goes back to the seventies. The variant, sometimes overlapping use to describe Tomb Raider-like games goes back at least to the late eighties.

These are not "incorrect uses." They are other meanings of the same word. That's why I think something like the MOTTAs are actually more of an embarrassment for (our kind of) adventure gamers than for anyone else.

Looking at the discussion page for the article, it's clear that "first person adventure" is a genre label widely applied to Metroid Prime. It's also clear that this is somewhat controversial. Finally, it's clear that the people who are using it thus are not "misappropriating" the term. They're completely unaware that other people are already using it to mean something else.

In conclusion, the current state of affairs (with separate articles for "first-person adventure" and "first person adventure", one talking about Metroid Prime and the other about Myst) is unacceptable. On the flip side, editing would mean getting sucked into an ugly and ultimately pointless semantic argument. I think I'll just stay on the sidelines and lob rocks at the participants.

[squarejawhero]

...which is ultimately even more pointless than joining the debate and will cause both sides to deride and mock you mercilessly.

No offense, Snarky, but that's not really helpful. Adventures are making a comeback and I've often, in the past, argued against specific genre labels, but have come to realise that in all honesty they are quite important when referring to game types. Sure the corners can be blurred, but words can be mixed too.

Having Metroid Prime listed as a first-person adventure game in Wiki would mean anyone looking up similar games based on genre definition would be getting misinformation about that genre.

Whether you or I or anyone else likes it isn't really the point. It's just keeping the centre clear even if the edges are fuzzy.

[mag]

Originally Posted by Snarky

These are not "incorrect uses." They are other meanings of the same word.

What's "incorrect" is this:

Originally Posted by Sparky the Seventh Chaos

Also, the only FPA I know about it Metroid Prime, which is definitely a console video game, and the term was, after all, first used to describe it.

Now that's just stupid. The term "first person adventure" existed LONG before Metroid Prime.

Actually, referring to Metroid as an "adventure" is rather silly itself. But that's a separate issue.

mag

[After a brisk nap]

Well, Metroid Prime is a first person adventure. Just not the kind of first person adventure we usually think about. No amount of Wikipedia edits is going to uproot the well-entrenched use of "adventure" to refer to games that have nothing to do with the games we talk about on this forum.

You know, if I wanted to be helpful I would suggest that instead of trying to squash other uses of the word, you should be informing people that it also means something else. Something wonderful.

I mean, you're not going to reduce confusion by telling people something that is inconsistent with what they already know.

Meanwhile, there's a much more serious, absolutely egregious slight to our adventure game genre somewhere in the Wikipedia linkspace. Anyone find it?

[After a brisk nap]

Originally Posted by mag

Now that's just stupid. The term "first person adventure" existed LONG before Metroid Prime.

Actually, referring to Metroid as an "adventure" is rather silly itself. But that's a separate issue.

Well, that's from the discussion page, not the article itself. Anyway, it was first used in this sense to describe Metroid Prime (apparently). As I mentioned earlier, these people are plain unaware of the fact that the term has already been used by others to mean something else.

Which is why you guys need to add to the information, not replace it.

I haven't played MP, so I don't know how well it falls into any of the other categories that various people call "adventure games."

[mag]

Originally Posted by Snarky

Well, Metroid Prime is a first person adventure. Just not the kind of first person adventure we usually think about.

um...no. There's really no way of defining Metroid as anything other than an action game. If you're going to stretch the definition of "adventure game" that much, then it pretty much becomes just a meaningless term. And saying, "Metroid is an adventure game" becomes as nonsensical as saying, "Metroid is a fudgcicle."

mag

[Karmillo]

Originally Posted by Snarky

Meanwhile, there's a much more serious, absolutely egregious slight to our adventure game genre somewhere in the Wikipedia linkspace. Anyone find it?

im not really sure what you mean...probably cause i have no idea what "egregious" means
but i looked at the wikipedia entry for adventure games http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adventure_games
and could find anything wrong...maybe theres something deeper im overlooking?

[Orange Brat]

Well, Metroid Prime is a first person adventure.

Not hardly.

[Intrepid Homoludens]

I've only played a bit of Metroid Prime (I would LOVE to play all of it, but alas, I don't own a 'Cube). AFAIK it has a lot of action in it (whether people outside the community of hardcore adventuer gamers consider action to be an inclusive feature of the Adventure Game is open to discussion), so if you're gonna call it an Adventure Game you should also lump in ICO, Beyond Good & Evil, and Psychonauts.

[After a brisk nap]

Originally Posted by mag

um...no. There's really no way of defining Metroid as anything other than an action game. If you're going to stretch the definition of "adventure game" that much, then it pretty much becomes just a meaningless term. And saying, "Metroid is an adventure game" becomes as nonsensical as saying, "Metroid is a fudgcicle."

You know, if someone had sat down saying "Hey, Metroid Prime is kinda like King's Quest. Let's call it a first person adventure," I would agree with you. But of course that's not what happened.

Probably, someone sat down and said "Hey, Metroid Prime is kinda like Tomb Raider," or some other game that is also called an adventure, "but it's in first person. Let's call it a first person adventure." And since using the word "adventure" to describe a particular kind of action game is widespread and well established, there's nothing wrong with that.

Now, as I mentioned, there's apparently some controversy in the console gaming world over whether the game is different enough from FPSs to warrant its own genre label. But that's not, as I understand it, the discussion we're having here.

[Intrepid Homoludens]

Jack? JACK?!!!! Why has Adventure Gamers not covered and reviewed Metroid Prime? It is an adventure game, and a first person one as it is!!

JAAAAAAAAAAACK?????!!!