[rtrooney]

Originally Posted by Banter

Why? It is not charity, you are paying for a game. It is even better than that because you are paying for the game you want and you are having a say in that. I can't fathom a better return for your money.

I think you are delusional. If you invest more than the street price of the game when it hits the market, it's charity. If you honestly think you are going to have a say in the game, at that investment level, you're flat out wrong.

Investing is investing. If you want to donate some money to a Kickstarter enterprise, feel free to do so. If I choose to do so it's because I expect to get a better return on my investment than the 2% I get from my local bank. And that scenario isn't happening here.

[Fien]

So don't participate. What on earth is this investment talk about anyway? Kickstarter is all about crowd funding, and it never pretended to be anything else.

[Banter]

Originally Posted by rtrooney

I think you are delusional. If you invest more than the street price of the game when it hits the market, it's charity. If you honestly think you are going to have a say in the game, at that investment level, you're flat out wrong.

Erm.. so just don't? 15 bucks is a fair price for a game, and if you think the higher options are not worth the goodies associated with them, don't pay it. It is not charity at all.

How much do you pay for new games anyway? Please send me links to the stores you use, I feel like I must be missing out on potential savings

[rtrooney]

$15 is more than a fair price for a game. Are you under the impression that your $15 investment is going to get you a free game?

[Kurufinwe]

Originally Posted by rtrooney

$15 is more than a fair price for a game. Are you under the impression that your $15 investment is going to get you a free game?

Erm... yes, that's how it works. It's essentially a pre-order.

[Banter]

Yup, 15 bucks for a DRM free game. You pay more if you want a physical commercial copy of the game or other extras(collectibles, etc). Consider it a pre-order.

I don't want to insult your intelligence or anything like that, but you really should read the prospects of the kickstarter projects and the rewards associated with each pledge tier. Supporting projects isn't charity at all, you can actually get great value for your money. Unless off course you are in the habit of pirating games... then I can certainly see why you would think 15 bucks for downloading a legal game is outrageous.

[Fien]

In the case of the 3,336,371 dollar Double Fine Adventure (I guess the hype passed you by, Mr. Rtrooney... that's Tim Schafer's Kickstarter project, backed by 87,142 people) the $15 tier is a real bargain. Not only will the game be much bigger than originally planned because so many people supported it, but you also get on-line access to the monthly episodes of the Making Of documentary, exclusive access to the Beta on Steam, and access to the private discussion forums where you can ask questions, post ideas, etcetera.

[TimovieMan]

Originally Posted by Banter

Yup, 15 bucks for a DRM free game. You pay more if you want a physical commercial copy of the game or other extras(collectibles, etc). Consider it a pre-order.

...not counting the potential risk of the developer "taking the money and running"...
A pre-order is for a game that's already in the ending stages of its production, but not released yet. A Kickstarter is for funding a game that is yet to be developed.
If a pre-order gets postponed indefinitely (*cough* Bracken Tor *cough*), you'll get your money back. If a Kickstarter fails (for whatever reason), your money is gone.

Kickstarter is in the first place based on trust. There's risk involved, and that makes it closer to an investment than to a pre-order.
I definitely understand what rtrooney is saying.

[Banter]

People like Jane Jensen and Al Lowe won't make a run with our money... you people can be ridiculous sometimes. These people have been working in the games industry since before most of us were born, they are not the kind of person you wouldn't trust to develop a game.

There are already cases where small developers didn't deliver(kickstarter has been on for a while), but that is expected from people without a track record. Use your common sense and all will be fine.

[Banter]

Btw, this is of interest:

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/04/10/replay-trying-to-bring-back-space-quest-kings-quest/

Could Roberta and Ken Williams be about to come out of retirement? Speaking to Al Lowe and Paul Trowe for an interview due later today, RPS learned that the company remaking the Leisure Suit Larry games is also in talks with other Sierra adventure alumni about bringing back their classic series. Replay Games� Trowe revealed that they’re currently in negotiations with both Sierra On-line co-founders Ken and Roberta Williams, as well as Space Quest creators, Scott Murphy and Mark Crowe, with an interest to see King’s Quest and Space Quest brought back. With the added obstacle of Activision to manoeuvre around too.

Roberta and Ken Williams retired around 1999, having made quite some fortune from the sale of Sierra, neither taking any role in the games industry since. Of course, Roberta is most famous for being behind the fairytale King’s Quest series, and the polar-different horror adventure, Phantasmagoria, and it’s the former series Trowe would love to see back. When we asked Trowe if either Williams was interested in coming out of retirement, he replied,

“I can’t speak for Roberta, but I can tell you that we’re currently talking to her and Ken.”

Meanwhile, things seem even further along with hopes to remake or add to the Space Quest catalogue. While creators Murphy and Crowe fell out in the 90s, Replay approached both about returning to the games. Crowe has ruled himself out, stating that his working for Pipeworks would make it a conflict of interests, but Scott Murphy has already expressed an interest. (In fact, he emailed Trowe during our interview, congratulating them on their Kickstarter.) And the last Space Quest game was developed by Murphy and Josh Mandel, with Mandel already working at Replay. The remaining issue, as with King’s Quest, would be licensing the games from owners Activision.

Trowe explained that Activision had been a touch unrealistic when he first approached them. Activision told us that they wanted $500,000 up front,” he explained. “And greater than 50% revenue share for those properties. I told them �good luck on getting that’, because I don’t think anybody’s going to pay that fee. I can tell you that they changed their tune about six months after that.”

But since then Space Quest has been licensed elsewhere, and Replay are currently in negotiations over getting the rights for themselves. “I want to say it’s looking good,” said Trowe, “but right now I’d give us 50/50.”

(I’m mostly upset that Crowe’s not interested, removing the possibility of a Lowe, Trowe and Crowe all working on a game.)

[thejobloshow]

According to the Replay Games website, Al Lowe will be doing a user contributed interview on Reddit this Friday (the 13th) at 6pm Pacific Time.

Here's where it will be posted: http://www.reddit.com/r/IAMA

A good chance to clear up questions you may have and reminiscence over the better days.

[Fien]

Originally Posted by Banter

There are already cases where small developers didn't deliver(kickstarter has been on for a while), but that is expected from people without a track record. Use your common sense and all will be fine.

I'm afraid that common sense really is not enough, as I've tried to argue in the Heather Logan thread. I did back someone with a fine track record. Kickstarter is only one form of crowdfunding and a very risky one at that. For backers.

Having said that, I am now supporting three Big Names: Tim, Jane and Al. What am I, crazy?

[Adventurere No.1]

Paul Trowe tells all!



http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...v=d5zom_UtgRE#!

[Gonzosports]

Originally Posted by Fien

I'm afraid that common sense really is not enough, as I've tried to argue in the Heather Logan thread. I did back someone with a fine track record. Kickstarter is only one form of crowdfunding and a very risky one at that. For backers.

Having said that, I am now supporting three Big Names: Tim, Jane and Al. What am I, crazy?

I'm glad you came around. I think the Logas situation (which i only know from the thread on here) is unfortunate. I do, think, though that Tim and Jane can't afford to not produce - their careers depend on it.

Heathers nor Plotkins do not - they're doing these projects as hobbies, not business.

I have backed a couple of Kickstarters, notably "The Dead Linger," where I have a bit of fear. Not just at it not going through, but of the concept being too bad, but I take my risks there.

I have very little doubt Tim, Al, Jane, and Brygo at Interplay will come through - hence much larger pledges.

[diego]

Brief animation demo:

http://www.adventuremob.com/wp-conte...Hit_v08CS4.swf

[Banter]

I think you guys are out of your minds if you are going paranoid on Lowe and Jensen because some unknown indie took your money and ran. It is utterly preposterous to think that an industry professional with a reputation to uphold and a career to mantain would bury himself like that.

Really... It is actually quite unfair to put kickstarter and these developers we love down because of what Logas did.

[Fien]

Originally Posted by Banter

I think you guys are out of your minds if you are going paranoid on Lowe and Jensen because some unknown indie took your money and ran. It is utterly preposterous to think that an industry professional with a reputation to uphold and a career to mantain would bury himself like that.

Like I already have said many times, I backed someone who is well-known in his field of expertise, whether you've heard of him or not. That was the context when I used the words Big Names. And yes, I do think that lots of things may go wrong with big projects, even with a 3.3 million game. But although I am bitter about the whole Kickstarter thing, I don't mean to hurt the Pinkerton and Larry projects.

Really... It is actually quite unfair to put kickstarter and these developers we love down because of what Logas did.

Interestingly, you're the one who told Logas she didn't need to apologize as long as she was still working on the project. I couldn't believe my eyes when I read that!

Kickstarter protects project creators in many ways. You don't want the world to know that your project is not going well? All you have to do is make your updates accessible to backers only. Of course Kickstarter does absolutely nothing to protect backers, that's not in their best interest.

[Harald B]

Originally Posted by Fien

Kickstarter protects project creators in many ways. You don't want the world to know that your project is not going well? All you have to do is make your updates accessible to backers only. Of course Kickstarter does absolutely nothing to protect backers, that's not in their best interest.

Backers don't sign any non-disclosure agreement, nor is there language like that in the terms of use. So disgruntled backers can just leak the updates and there's not much the developer can do about it.
Contrariwise if the developer does not deliver on time you can file a claim through your credit card company or payment processor as you would for any online seller.

[Fien]

Originally Posted by Harald B

Backers don't sign any non-disclosure agreement, nor is there language like that in the terms of use. So disgruntled backers can just leak the updates and there's not much the developer can do about it.

That's called revenge. Yes, of course. But I was talking about protection.

Contrariwise if the developer does not deliver on time you can file a claim through your credit card company or payment processor as you would for any online seller.

Sorry, I really don't think that's a viable option for Kickstarter projects in general. Especially not after two or more years. Should backers start filing claims when they have received nothing by the *estimated* time of delivery...? That doesn't spell any good for Tim Schafer, with his outdated October 2012.

[thejobloshow]

Did anyone here see the Reddit interview? They love Al! And damn, him and Josh are still funny. These guys need to be working on games.