01-07-2012, 10:34 AM | #1 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Chennai, India
Posts: 141
|
Innovation in adventure games
Looking through the Top 100, I noticed that most of the Nintendo DS games are extremely different and innovative in terms of gameplay, while the PC games are mostly the same basic formula with only the story or graphics separating them.
Look at for instance Phoenix Wright Ghost Trick 999 Trace Memory Professor Layton If you expand to all console games, then you have Stacking, L.A.Noire, Heavy Rain, Catherine... Why is this? What is stopping these sorts of games from coming out on the PC? |
01-07-2012, 12:02 PM | #2 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 222
|
6 of the 9 games you mentioned are japanese.
and i have no evidence to back this up, but it seems to me they dont take to pc gaming as much as the west. stacking is from the mind of tim schafer, and is coming to pc this year. so that should count. so now you are left with two, high budget, triple a titles. Built by companies with big publishers behind them. (2k and sony) therefore there is no way they would consider PC as a market worth focusing on, so their focus had to be on the big audience. which is consoles. innovation comes in many forms. and for PC gaming, that's indie games right now. spacechem, braid, limbo, not 100% adventures but appeal to me more than the console AAA games mentioned above. until pc games start selling 6 million in their first month, this wont change. |
01-07-2012, 03:52 PM | #3 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 974
|
The reason why Point and Click is such a popular formula amongst the PC crowd is the fact that the system works and for those that want to tell their story, works best for them. I'm down for people who want to tell a story with good production values (not stick figures and so on) and live with the same ol formula. Games that cost money especially more than 10$ in my mind should try to push out into more creative realms...
__________________
"Oggi abbiamo erediteranno la terra! Domani, ci distruggiamo!" -S. B. Newsom http://www.sbnewsom.com/ |
01-07-2012, 03:57 PM | #4 |
Spoonbeaks say Ahoy!
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Poland
Posts: 1,053
|
Like Idrisguitar said most of these are Japanese and quite a few were created with handhelds in mind. So they not only offer different styles of play and storytelling, but also miss a lot of features the PC gamers take for granted. I'm not even sure all of these are true adventure games or more like evolution of the visual novel genre.
So in short there isn't any strong market established for games like that on the PC... Yet. But look what's already happening - Telltale Games has been borrowing ideas from Layton and Heavy Rain for their newest games. Recettear - a Japanese "RPG item shop simulator" - has been ported to PC by an indie team and enjoyed a lot of sales. More and more titles like that will start to seep through. Especially anything that's attractive to the casual market.
__________________
A Hardy Developer's Journal - The Scientific Society's online magazine devoted to charting indie adventure games and neighboring territories |
01-07-2012, 05:04 PM | #5 |
3rd person fanatic :)
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Finland
Posts: 404
|
Again, I have to point out my opinion. Don't fix what ain't broken: PC-adventures have a certain formula. It does not need changing now, and it does not need changing in the future either.
__________________
~Flight Of The Amazon Queen - Best adventure ever~ |
01-07-2012, 05:49 PM | #6 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Chennai, India
Posts: 141
|
PC ports of games initially released on consoles doesnt count
I don't agree with the "it isnt broke so dont fix it" argument. For example, I found Phoenix Wright a lot of fun, and all the comments on this forum for the other games have been extremely positive. All of these games are very story driven, much more than most point and click. Perhaps being Japanese meant that they didnt have preconceived notions of what an adventure game is supposed to be? And Tim Schafer is genius enough to break out of any fixed mold. |
01-08-2012, 01:14 AM | #7 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 974
|
Actually thats BS. It needed changing ever since it went into a niche market. Not to mention that never is right in terms of entertainment. Ever genre moved forward except for Adventure Gaming (not mentioning those games that did evolve like Heavy Rain, Jurassic Park, LA Noire, etc)
__________________
"Oggi abbiamo erediteranno la terra! Domani, ci distruggiamo!" -S. B. Newsom http://www.sbnewsom.com/ |
01-08-2012, 02:58 AM | #8 | |
Psychonaut
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Edinburgh
Posts: 5,114
|
Quote:
However Heavy Rain and LA Noire are good examples of how the genre can go forward.
__________________
I'm not insane, my mother had me tested! |
|
01-08-2012, 04:29 AM | #9 |
Senior Automaton
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 898
|
I'm not sure if LA Noire was such a huge step forward from say, the Tex Murphy games. The one thing I liked very much was the range of outcomes you could get on a case, but of course Tex Murphy was non-linear too. That's a thing I think adventure games could improve on, it's a nice feeling that my questioning and clue-finding could lead to the right person being caught, instead of just ploughing through a list of questions. The driving around and shooting I could do without (and did so - I skipped most of it), so I empathise with the "ain't broke - don't fix" view.
|
01-08-2012, 04:47 AM | #10 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 974
|
Quote:
@Lucien: I absolutely disagree, especially since we don't really have any innovation in the interactive movie department.
__________________
"Oggi abbiamo erediteranno la terra! Domani, ci distruggiamo!" -S. B. Newsom http://www.sbnewsom.com/ |
|
01-08-2012, 05:02 AM | #11 |
Easily amused
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,091
|
Personally, I think that Casual games and thier evolution are part of a big change for PC adventure gaming. I find they fill the void for people looking for good 1st person puzzlers.
__________________
Occasionally visiting Uru Live (KI 00637228). |
01-08-2012, 05:36 AM | #12 |
Schättenjager
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 815
|
Yes, Grim Fandango's gameplay was most innovative ever,point &clicks are antiqued,Heavy Rain,Jurassic Park etc. just button mashing.
__________________
"Life is either a daring adventure or nothing at all. Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature." ---Helen Keller |
01-08-2012, 02:43 PM | #13 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Heracklion,Greece
Posts: 424
|
I'm all for innovation but that doesn't mean that every formula we've had until now has to be shunned.What I want is games that come out with incredible ideas that fascinate me while still having new games with old formulas around.And I have a thing for point & click(and the opposite for gamepads,however mouse and keyboard ain't a bad idea to me) so....
|
01-08-2012, 03:21 PM | #14 |
Senior Automaton
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 898
|
|
01-08-2012, 03:25 PM | #15 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 223
|
The Nintendo DS has a touch screen interface. A PC does not have one of these and I doubt that it can. You use this touch this screen to play the game and solve puzzles. Some games even use the DS microphone or even the Dsi cameras. I myself love this touch screen interface to play adventure games with.
You can convert PC point and click adventure games to the DS and there are some good one out there like Secret Files. However, I don't think we'll ever see anyone of the DS unique adventure games ever converted to the PC, the Nintendo DS has a huge market base of over 150 million units sold and I don't see Capcom, which specializes in console games ever converting them to the PC. Every system has unique games to it - Heavy Rain on the PS3, etc. And while I'd love to see some of these unique titles ported to other systems - they themselves sell systems and will stay unique.
__________________
I love all third person adventure games Last edited by Mikekelly; 01-08-2012 at 03:26 PM. Reason: typo |
01-08-2012, 03:26 PM | #16 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: California
Posts: 19
|
The strange thing is that whenever someone makes an innovative PC adventure game, it tends to not do so well commercially. Pandora Directive, Last Express, Grim Fandango. The only exception seems to be Myst, but that was released around the first-person boom of the mid-nineties when DOOM also made its entrance.
Part of me thinks that adventure gamers tend to be a nostalgic lot. Tradition and nostalgia also tend to be the enemies of innovation. And I don't think that "casual" adventure games are really innovative, either. They're the junk food of the genre, a quick bag of potato chips compared to Tex Murphy's fine dining. They only support my belief that the *majority* of adventure gamers simply don't prefer a challenging, new experience. Such a thing goes against nostalgia and tradition. It's not that I actually believe anyone here would actively be against innovation. It's just that there tends to be an unspoken herd mentality amongst the collective majority. Sure, a game like The Last Express was amazing, but for some reason at the time it didn't sell well. |
01-08-2012, 03:30 PM | #17 | |||
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 974
|
Quote:
Oh wait, your comparison is completely irrelevant because these two games are completely different. Quote:
Quote:
Its all relative to your bias if you have one. Just leave these unique products for their respective hardware. They were designed for the specific hardware and it will cost them more money and additional design document changes that just aren't worth the effort.
__________________
"Oggi abbiamo erediteranno la terra! Domani, ci distruggiamo!" -S. B. Newsom http://www.sbnewsom.com/ Last edited by Monolith; 01-08-2012 at 03:36 PM. |
|||
01-08-2012, 03:35 PM | #18 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Heracklion,Greece
Posts: 424
|
I don't think that tradition and nostalgia have anything to do with it.....maybe some people try to make only that type of adventures games but that doesn't apply to everyone.If someone wants to do something innovative and is always on the lookout for ideas he will eventually do it.Also for games to go as far as creating a tradition and nostalgia status around them means that formula is still good.
|
01-08-2012, 03:59 PM | #19 | |
Senior Automaton
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 898
|
Quote:
I'm just trying to figure out which part LA Noire innovated upon. If it's only graphics, then it's not much. |
|
01-08-2012, 10:38 PM | #20 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 974
|
Quote:
The way you are talking, its like Tex Murphy is the end all detective games, yet LA Noire is more of a cinematic third person detective experience where as Tex Murphy is a completely adventure based first person detective game with more focus on puzzles and exploration. I've played all Tex Murphy games and feel that they are the corner stone of first person detective gaming...something I wish Sherlock Holmes looked at a bit more, but you seem to dismiss that the general creativity and design of LA Noire is not innovative at all. LA Noire brought about the organic feel of adventure/detective gaming.
__________________
"Oggi abbiamo erediteranno la terra! Domani, ci distruggiamo!" -S. B. Newsom http://www.sbnewsom.com/ |
|
Thread Tools | |
|