[Mieze]

I am sorry to read that you find the game boring, Fishcube!
But tastes obviously vary - and a good thing they do.

I admit that Black Mirror has some flaws (e.g. the voice acting could have been a bit more sprightly), but I appreciated the mood of the game, the graphics and the music.

And more important: I also liked the story... though the end seemed a bit hurried and illogical to me.

Fishcube, since you ask whether it is getting better: if you don't like it after the first chapter, I doubt you'll like the rest any better.

[Ninth]

Originally Posted by fishcube

Me and my husband are playing Black Mirror. We havn't gotten past the first day, but I must say its quite boring....

You click on items that tell you nothing important (like, "this is a chair"), and there are very few items to actually pick up and use.

Currently stuck, been everywhere, talked with everyone, done everything.

We are hoping it gets better???

If the atmosphere doesn't appeal to you, there's not much chance that you'll find it get better. But who knows... Keep us informed.
By the way, most detective like games are like that: a lot of useless item to look at, a few to pick up, and the same goes for the discussions. That's just a sub-sub genre .

If you're stuck, you might need to travel from location to location for a while. That's one of the major drawbacks of this title in my opinion: the need to travel back and forth a few times to simulate the passing of time.

[fishcube]

Well... I'm going from Syberia to Black mirror. Just a tad difference.

I still like the game, we just thought it was sort of boring, but it is only the beginning.

I have been going back and forth to different locations etc, and have found out about the passing of time and it does produce more talking etc.

Is there really only one thing to do in the greenhouse? look at the painting and talk to Morris about it? just checking

[timcclayton]

Originally Posted by fishcube

Well... I'm going from Syberia to Black mirror. Just a tad difference.

Whilst they look quite similar styles of game in some respects, they really are very different from each other. To me, although a great game, Syberia's gameworld is quite stark on the interactive front and this is why personally I preferred Black Mirror. Although as you rightly say you can't actually pick up or fully interact with many objects in Black Mirror, many of the item descriptions will help immerse you more into the game. Too often in Syberia, I felt that I was just jumping through hoops (Oscar and his tickets spring to mind!) and the world was just there to look pretty, whereas in Black Mirror I really felt I was interacting with my environment.

I see this all as a positive thing. It shows the variety that adventure games have and why there are so many (on the whole, friendly!) schizms in these forums (and don't get me started on Schizm, grrrrr... )

[fishcube]

speaking of Schizm, I can't get it to work correctly on my notebook. I take it you don't like it?

Sharonkay

[timcclayton]

Originally Posted by fishcube

I take it you don't like it?

No I didn't but I really wanted to. I enjoy maths puzzles in their place but Schizm reminded me of another game called Rama (which I also really wanted to like) and I felt like I was sitting some futuristic maths examination just for the sake of it. And both worlds seemed VERY empty, although I suppose you could argue that this was part of the plot in both (but not even a single animation
)

[MDMaster]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH!! Those 'Come back later' puzzles (if one can call 'em that with a straight face) of Black Mirror were indeed one of the worst things in the game. I mean, what the hell were they supposed to mean? It felt like the programmers wanted to insanely strech out the length of the game, which is not short anyway, at the expense of the player's patience. But I mean, I could have been comfortable with one 'CBL' puzzles, uncomfortable with two 'CBL' puzzles but I'm downright angry with THREE 'CBL' puzzles!

I hope they drop that idea in Nibiru, or I will definitely wait for someone else to buy it before I go for it.

[Ninth]

Originally Posted by fishcube

speaking of Schizm, I can't get it to work correctly on my notebook. I take it you don't like it?

Sharonkay

Schizm is awesome in its own right, that is, if you like extremely difficult (but therefore very satisfying to solve) puzzles.
The story is more than simple, but fits the world, the graphics are not really good on the CD version (haven't played the DVD version), the cut scenes are lame...
It's all about math, symbols, logic, etc...
I got stuck at one point, quite far into the game, and quitted playing not long after, but getting to this point was a tremendous experience; my brains are still fuming.

[Ninth]

Originally Posted by MDMaster

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH!! Those 'Come back later' puzzles (if one can call 'em that with a straight face) of Black Mirror were indeed one of the worst things in the game. I mean, what the hell were they supposed to mean? It felt like the programmers wanted to insanely strech out the length of the game, which is not short anyway, at the expense of the player's patience. But I mean, I could have been comfortable with one 'CBL' puzzles, uncomfortable with two 'CBL' puzzles but I'm downright angry with THREE 'CBL' puzzles!

I hope they drop that idea in Nibiru, or I will definitely wait for someone else to buy it before I go for it.

That's bad design, true, but it never would prevent me from buying a game. Nibiru is close to the highest rank in my own hype-o-meter...

[MDMaster]

Originally Posted by Ninth

That's bad design, true, but it never would prevent me from buying a game. Nibiru is close to the highest rank in my own hype-o-meter...

I admit I was a bit overreacting, but one can't deny that the 'CBL' idea is one of the worse to come up in recent adventure games. I am very interested in Nibiru too, I hope they can get a rational publisher this time!

[timcclayton]

Originally Posted by MDMaster

I admit I was a bit overreacting, but one can't deny that the 'CBL' idea is one of the worse to come up in recent adventure games.

I know exactly what you mean, but in the realism stakes this is the sensible way to go. I mean, how many days in your life have you picked up everything that isn't nailed down, put it in your jacket/bag and wandered off to solve normal everyday problems (e.g. supposing your car gets a flat tyre - "oh thank god I picked up the wheel jack and put it in my inside jacket pocket this morning otherwise I would be screwed!") ???!

I know we are used to picking up everything possible that's lying around in adventure games, but I think that is approaching the puzzles in the wrong way. In a game (as in life), you should be looking at a puzzle and deciding which objects will help you best and then rounding those items up to solve the puzzle (game design is critical in these instances - the objects need to be fairly easily accessible, otherwise frustration ensues).

If you are arguing that it needs to be carefully/better implemented then I agree with you wholeheartedly (although I don't remember having to run through hundreds of screens in Black Mirror to pick up one useful object, so I think the design in this particular game was fairly sensible).

[MDMaster]

Well, the idea that you can pick up an item only AFTER you know what to do with it is sure realistic. I mean, that didn't bother me a bit, I actually tend to get a little nervous when I have an inventory chock full of items that I don't know if I'll ever use (Sam & Max was a good example at that). But the 'Come Back Later' thing just doesn't strike me at being excessively realistic.

I mean usually if someone asks somebody something that doesn't require days to accomplish, it gets done right here and now. For example, if I ask a priest to look up something in a book, I shouldn't have to wander around aimlessly FIVE times in places before he actually goes to look it up. I mean, that surely should be better implemented, if just for the frustration that induces in the player. Not to mention that some other adventures did have the same thing, but it usually meant 'you have to do something else before he finishes the job for you'. Now I can't quite remember which game it was, but I'm sure somebody was a bit confused when told to 'come back later'.

[timcclayton]

Originally Posted by MDMaster

For example, if I ask a priest to look up something in a book, I shouldn't have to wander around aimlessly FIVE times in places before he actually goes to look it up. I mean, that surely should be better implemented, if just for the frustration that induces in the player.

That is a prime example of poor implementation and bad design (although I have experienced worse in other games!) but I don't remember too many moments like that one. I think from a designer's point of view, those situations should be tackled by perhaps fading out to black and then fading back in again when the task has been accomplished (ie. a matter of 5 seconds). This would avoid unnecessary frustration on the part of the player. The only exception to this might be a situation where you have to trigger this action by finding another object or solving another puzzle (ie. find the priest's glasses for him before he can read the book - OK, poor example, but you know what I mean).

And this is the area where games that have/have not been thoroughly play-tested really shines through (and not just played through by the designers, but by people not connected to the project who come in with no assumptions or preconceptions).

[MDMaster]

I agree that fading out could be a way of simulating the passing of time, but there's a very easy solution to 'wandering around aimlessly': give the player something to do.

For example, if I had to wait for the priest to look up in the chronicles, I could go to the pub and have a chat with someone, maybe even small talk (and there is some small talk on TBM anyway). Then you go back to the priest and he's done looking up, wouldn't that be less frustrating? I don't understand the pure 'wander around' concept, why didn't they give the player something to do?

But I've seen worse ideas too, it's not like TBM has the worst designer touches I've ever seen, it's just that since the game has this 'professional' look about it, you notice these kind of things more easily.

[timcclayton]

Originally Posted by MDMaster

For example, if I had to wait for the priest to look up in the chronicles, I could go to the pub and have a chat with someone, maybe even small talk (and there is some small talk on TBM anyway). Then you go back to the priest and he's done looking up, wouldn't that be less frustrating?

Well sort of, except that how are you to know that you need to talk to this person in the pub ? I mean, this was the original problem with this segment of TBM. I am not in favour of being led by the hand, but at the same time you need to have some idea of your next challenge(s) otherwise you feel lost and unsure of what to do next - this whole area is a fine balancing act.

But I absolutely agree with you on the quality of TBM - this was the reason that a lot of people had the odd negative comment, simply that the game was generally very good and well received. I felt much the same about The Silver Earring - a good game marred by some poor spelling and grammar and the occasional glaring graphical error.

[MDMaster]

Originally Posted by timcclayton

I felt much the same about The Silver Earring - a good game marred by some poor spelling and grammar and the occasional glaring graphical error.

I think that is the main problem with adventure games nowadays. 'Important' and 'professional' software houses all abandonded the market because they clearly think they'll make more money by making GTA clones and FPSs, so they left the genre in the hands of a few well-intentioned but slightly unprofessional programmers in small SHs in Europe, mainly. Surely if one looked at this scenario, this could mean horrible amateurish games that nobody enjoys playing, except hardcore adventurers. Fortunately small SHs aren't that bad anyway and they can still make those good, if a rather unprofessional, games. Let's hope that time will be kind to those programmers and they can learn from their mistakes (if there's a 'Come Back Later' puzzle in Nibiru, I'm going to become a terorrist or something... hehe).

Anyways I said to give the player something to do, but I didn't mean something compulsory. I mean, you don't have to do small talk to 'unlock' the priest, but it's just something to make you pass the time. Of course the player can choose to not talk to anyone and just wander around aimlessly and then come back to the church.

[Dell]

I have a problem. In chapter 5 I examine the picture of "someone with key" in Robert's study, then I go to talk with Victoria and i'm stuck. (I follow the WALK-THROUGH.) The Assburry sanatorium is still NOT ACTIVE, and when I try to talk with Victoria, Samuel says: "I'll leave her alone now"???. Why she dosn't want to talk about the picture I saw ???.

P.S. I have all items from Robert's study and i check everything!

Sorry for my awful english

[timcclayton]

Firstly, welcome to AG and I can assure you that there's not a lot wrong with your English!

To answer your query, it is most likely that you have missed some small part of the walkthrough. These types of "triggers" in adventure games need all the boxes ticked before they activate so there is probably just one little step that you have not completed. Also, it is always a good idea to try a different walkthrough in case the one you are using is not very comprehensive.

Of course it could be a bug, but I have not heard of any bugs within Black Mirror (barring the awful StarForce copy protection, but we all know about that one!)

Hope that helps!

[Dell]

Hi again , Thanks for the reply timcclayton

Originally Posted by timcclayton

To answer your query, it is most likely that you have missed some small part of the walkthrough. These types of "triggers" in adventure games need all the boxes ticked before they activate so there is probably just one little step that you have not completed.

Now on the question!.
I start the game at the beginning of chapter 5, but this time I used 3 kind of WALK-THROUGHS, and the final result is still "I'll leave her alone now". Maybe there is some bugs in my game. Is there somewhere a savegames of this game at the beginnig of chapter 6 or after the conversation with Victoria.

P.S. Thanks again timcclayton , And one more thing, can somebody tell me where i can download adventure games for Nokia 6600 (of course FREE & FULL VERSIONS - with one word "CRACKED"

[gillyruless]

Originally Posted by Dell

Hi again , Thanks for the reply timcclayton



Now on the question!.
I start the game at the beginning of chapter 5, but this time I used 3 kind of WALK-THROUGHS, and the final result is still "I'll leave her alone now". Maybe there is some bugs in my game. Is there somewhere a savegames of this game at the beginnig of chapter 6 or after the conversation with Victoria.

P.S. Thanks again timcclayton , And one more thing, can somebody tell me where i can download adventure games for Nokia 6600 (of course FREE & FULL VERSIONS - with one word "CRACKED"

As far as I know, there is no bug in black mirror that stops you in Ch 5. I recently finished the game and didn't experience any hang up in CH 5. If you were

Spoiler:

able to open Robert's safe in his study and obtain/read all relevant items from the safe and observe the picture of the man with the key, you should be able to to talk to Victoria.

My guess is that you are using a pirated version if you are following multiple walkthroughs and still getting stuck in ch 5. If that's the case, I don't think anyone here will be able to help you.