CHALLENGE to smart puzzlers~New Beginning - Page 3

Len Green · 10-08-2011, 05:45 PM

Will do maybe tomorrow. I'm just finishing chapter 7 - the card game - also a bit dicey but done it.
Then I'll fish out the savegame & send to you.

Matt Berkeley · 10-10-2011, 05:21 PM

Len, kind of strange.

I go to the extent of setting up a share for you in my SkyDrive and offer to do what you've been asking for: re-installing the game and seeing how the savegame I've made space for you to upload plays on my end.

You've been asking for this kind of thorough trouble-shooting for a while now... and you give me a "maybe-tomorrow" that turns into who-knows-when that you'll have to "fish out"?

What is up?

Len Green · 10-10-2011, 05:46 PM

Don't worry - it's coming

I won't let you down (I never do)! There's a real reason for the unfortunate delay!

Len Green · 10-12-2011, 05:22 AM

MEGAUPLOAD ~ Two savegames - Zipped.
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=9ST3369S
Sorry for the delay – I had a VITAL deadline which I was obligated to fulfill and which kept me 100% occupied till now – in addition I had TERRIBLE trouble in resurrecting the saves and it took me a couple of hours or more.
About 10 Mb but zipped as here about 1.5 Mb.
IMHO there are only 3 possibilities :-
(1) The game has a terrible bug in this puzzle ONLY which makes it impossible to solve in any logical or reasonable fashion.
(2) There is some weird bug or conflict in my particular computer or setup ONLY. This seems weird since all other puzzles & performances work OK --- why just this puzzle?
(3) Since I replayed it VERY MANY times, I made a save IMMEDIATELY before the puzzle starts. ([N.B. Save & Load times in the whole game are horrendously sluggish – getting worse & even longer as the game progresses).

It is possible that this particular individual savegame ALONE is corrupted – I have come across this before in some games for whatever reason! To check this I have attached another savegame a fair way before this last one – it is very unlikely that this one is also corrupted ?!?!?

Len Green · 10-17-2011, 02:13 AM

Matt – 11 October 2011

Quote:

]Len, kind of strange.

I go to the extent of setting up a share for you in my SkyDrive and offer to do what you've been asking for: re-installing the game and seeing how the savegame I've made space for you to upload plays on my end.

You've been asking for this kind of thorough trouble-shooting for a while now... and you give me a "maybe-tomorrow" that turns into who-knows-when that you'll have to "fish out"?

What is up?

Len – 17 October 2011
I posted the savegame together with a 'spare' here 5 days ago.

Do you (or anybody else) have a decision?
Is it a serious bug built into the game, or simply a local individual flaw or corruption or bug in my computer setup, or whatever ?

Len Green · 10-21-2011, 02:38 AM

Hi Matt ….. What's up ?
10 days ago you urged me to hurry up with the savegame so that you could examine the weird behavior of this puzzle. The next day I posted the savegame (+ a 'spare'), but I haven't heard from you !
I see that to date there have been 1300 views on this thread which was started 3 weeks ago. Obviously, nowhere near that number have actually played the game, only a small fraction I suppose. However I can only guess that quite a reasonable number have played it.
On the one hand only a couple of players have stated outright that they were forced to skip this puzzle. But on the other hand nobody has categorically posted that they DID solve it without skipping, and importantly, outlined the precise steps they took to do so. Neither has anybody as yet explained what could be the cause of this seemingly very nasty bug.
Another strange thing which may or may not be of any significance :-
The only walkthrough I have seen on the Net goes into very great detail on the many 'skipable' puzzles outlining every single step and accompanying them with many screencaps per puzzle. But on this puzzle – Nothing (except the final solution ???).
I hope I'm wrong butit is beginning to appear that the puzzle as it stands cannot be solved, and that everybody, just like me, had to use the skip function in order to finish the game.

P.S. I wrote to both the developers & the publishers of the game over 2½ weeks ago explaining the anomalies in full detail and included my screencaps for clarification.
To date I have received no help, explanation, clarification, refutation, whatever – they have not even sent a reply or acknowledgement of receipt !!

Neither of them has yet deigned to even reply !!

PostGrad · 10-28-2011, 09:03 AM

Hi Len,

I registered on the forum especially to (hopefully) put you out of your misery, finally!

You appear to have misunderstood the logic here in the puzzle and to be honest, it is a little strange, but logic nonetheless.

If you regard the sockets without any bridges on them such that red sockets are 'live' and yellow sockets are neutral.

There are then 6 possible outcomes when you add a coloured bridge between two connectors:

Connectors.........Yellow Bridge..........Red Bridge
======================================
Y Y ........................No effect..................No Effect
Y R (or R Y)........... No effect................+1 to the row/column the yellow connector is in
R R................... -1 on each connector......No Effect

So, if you regard red connectors as 'live', then a red bridge will add 1 'from' the red 'to' the yellow connector. Imagine a flow from the red to the yellow.

A yellow bridge ONLY subtracts 1 from each connection when it bridges two red connectors.

This is why in your earlier photo upload, which at first looks totally wrong is perfectly logical because:

In the top row you have a red bridge between two yellow connectors. No Effect!

In the 3rd column you have a red bridge between two red connectors, again no effect.

In the 3rd row you have a red bridge between two yellow connectors. No effect.

BTW, I assume your 'dead end' was during the card game? LOL I got stuck there too for a while until you give back what you took!

Hope this helps?

PostGrad · 10-30-2011, 03:32 AM

Hi Len,

We have been speaking via e-mail about this.

It appears I am now allowed to reply to posts, but it looks like the mods went and LOST my detailed first reply here which apparently had to be 'pre-moderated'!

Nice eh?!

Edit: Looks like it's been allowed (at last)!

Len Green · 10-30-2011, 12:39 PM

PostGrad -
Firstly :- VERY MANY THANKS for taking so much trouble to clear this puzzle up !
Secondly :- Your contention is that the puzzle is actually logical and not a bug or corruption.
You have spent a good deal of your (valuable) time in clarifying the whole thing in very great detail. It is going to take me a while to follow your very detailed aanalysis. As soon as I have done this I'll post my agreement (or disagreement

) here.
Then if anybody wants further details euther you or I can elaborate.

PostGrad · 10-31-2011, 06:53 AM

I tried to add your picture you sent (of the starting connection grid) to illustrate a few examples, but the board won't let me do it.

The FAQ talks about 'managing attachments' but that just doesn't appear as an option on new replies or old ones.

Is the FAQ out of date, wrong, or is it because I'm a noob here?

Len Green · 10-31-2011, 10:10 AM

PostGrad is indeed a very smart Adventure gamer. Not only that, but he's spent a LOT of time & effort explaining the logic of that 'bomb puzzle'. To me it seems an extremely convoluted logic but he explained it in great detail and why his opinion it is PERFECTLY logical – and no bug or corrupted file or whatever.

I still find the (his) logic pretty 'twisted' but never mind I managed to solve the puzzle to the end by trial & error.
So MANY thanks PostGrad and all others who have helped!
Cheers - Len.

10-08-2011, 05:45 PM	#41
Len Green Senior Member $Len Green's Avatar$ Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 454	Will do maybe tomorrow. I'm just finishing chapter 7 - the card game - also a bit dicey but done it. Then I'll fish out the savegame & send to you. Share Share this post on Twitter

10-10-2011, 05:21 PM	#42
Matt Berkeley Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 109	Len, kind of strange. I go to the extent of setting up a share for you in my SkyDrive and offer to do what you've been asking for: re-installing the game and seeing how the savegame I've made space for you to upload plays on my end. You've been asking for this kind of thorough trouble-shooting for a while now... and you give me a "maybe-tomorrow" that turns into who-knows-when that you'll have to "fish out"? What is up? Share Share this post on Twitter

10-10-2011, 05:46 PM	#43
Len Green Senior Member $Len Green's Avatar$ Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 454	Don't worry - it's coming I won't let you down (I never do)! There's a real reason for the unfortunate delay! Share Share this post on Twitter

10-12-2011, 05:22 AM	#44
Len Green Senior Member $Len Green's Avatar$ Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 454	MEGAUPLOAD ~ Two savegames - Zipped. http://www.megaupload.com/?d=9ST3369S Sorry for the delay – I had a VITAL deadline which I was obligated to fulfill and which kept me 100% occupied till now – in addition I had TERRIBLE trouble in resurrecting the saves and it took me a couple of hours or more. About 10 Mb but zipped as here about 1.5 Mb. IMHO there are only 3 possibilities :- (1) The game has a terrible bug in this puzzle ONLY which makes it impossible to solve in any logical or reasonable fashion. (2) There is some weird bug or conflict in my particular computer or setup ONLY. This seems weird since all other puzzles & performances work OK --- why just this puzzle? (3) Since I replayed it VERY MANY times, I made a save IMMEDIATELY before the puzzle starts. ([N.B. Save & Load times in the whole game are horrendously sluggish – getting worse & even longer as the game progresses). It is possible that this particular individual savegame ALONE is corrupted – I have come across this before in some games for whatever reason! To check this I have attached another savegame a fair way before this last one – it is very unlikely that this one is also corrupted ?!?!? Share Share this post on Twitter

10-21-2011, 02:38 AM	#46
Len Green Senior Member $Len Green's Avatar$ Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 454	Hi Matt ….. What's up ? 10 days ago you urged me to hurry up with the savegame so that you could examine the weird behavior of this puzzle. The next day I posted the savegame (+ a 'spare'), but I haven't heard from you ! I see that to date there have been 1300 views on this thread which was started 3 weeks ago. Obviously, nowhere near that number have actually played the game, only a small fraction I suppose. However I can only guess that quite a reasonable number have played it. On the one hand only a couple of players have stated outright that they were forced to skip this puzzle. But on the other hand nobody has categorically posted that they DID solve it without skipping, and importantly, outlined the precise steps they took to do so. Neither has anybody as yet explained what could be the cause of this seemingly very nasty bug. Another strange thing which may or may not be of any significance :- The only walkthrough I have seen on the Net goes into very great detail on the many 'skipable' puzzles outlining every single step and accompanying them with many screencaps per puzzle. But on this puzzle – *Nothing* (except the final solution ???). I hope I'm wrong butit is beginning to appear that the puzzle as it stands cannot be solved, and that *everybody, just like me, had to use the skip function in order to finish the game. P.S. I wrote to both the developers & the publishers of the game over 2½ weeks ago explaining the anomalies in full detail and included my screencaps for clarification. To date I have received no help, explanation, clarification, refutation, whatever – they have not even sent a reply or acknowledgement of receipt !! Neither of them has yet deigned to even reply !! Share Share this post on Twitter Last edited by Len Green; 10-21-2011 at 05:44 AM.*

10-28-2011, 09:03 AM	#47
PostGrad Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 8	Hi Len, I registered on the forum especially to (hopefully) put you out of your misery, finally! You appear to have misunderstood the logic here in the puzzle and to be honest, it is a little strange, but logic nonetheless. If you regard the sockets without any bridges on them such that red sockets are 'live' and yellow sockets are neutral. There are then 6 possible outcomes when you add a coloured bridge between two connectors: Connectors.........Yellow Bridge..........Red Bridge ====================================== Y Y ........................No effect..................No Effect Y R (or R Y)........... No effect................+1 to the row/column the yellow connector is in R R................... -1 on each connector......No Effect So, if you regard red connectors as 'live', then a red bridge will add 1 'from' the red 'to' the yellow connector. Imagine a flow from the red to the yellow. A yellow bridge ONLY subtracts 1 from each connection when it bridges two red connectors. This is why in your earlier photo upload, which at first looks totally wrong is perfectly logical because: In the top row you have a red bridge between two yellow connectors. No Effect! In the 3rd column you have a red bridge between two red connectors, again no effect. In the 3rd row you have a red bridge between two yellow connectors. No effect. BTW, I assume your 'dead end' was during the card game? LOL I got stuck there too for a while until you give back what you took! Hope this helps? Share Share this post on Twitter Last edited by PostGrad; 10-31-2011 at 06:42 AM.

10-30-2011, 03:32 AM	#48
PostGrad Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 8	Hi Len, We have been speaking via e-mail about this. It appears I am now allowed to reply to posts, but it looks like the mods went and LOST my detailed first reply here which apparently had to be 'pre-moderated'! Nice eh?! Edit: Looks like it's been allowed (at last)! Share Share this post on Twitter Last edited by PostGrad; 10-31-2011 at 06:14 AM.

10-30-2011, 12:39 PM	#49
Len Green Senior Member $Len Green's Avatar$ Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 454	PostGrad - Firstly :- VERY MANY THANKS for taking so much trouble to clear this puzzle up ! Secondly :- Your contention is that the puzzle is actually logical and not a bug or corruption. You have spent a good deal of your (valuable) time in clarifying the whole thing in very great detail. It is going to take me a while to follow your very detailed aanalysis. As soon as I have done this I'll post my agreement (or disagreement) here. Then if anybody wants further details euther you or I can elaborate. Share Share this post on Twitter

10-31-2011, 06:53 AM	#50
PostGrad Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 8	I tried to add your picture you sent (of the starting connection grid) to illustrate a few examples, but the board won't let me do it. The FAQ talks about 'managing attachments' but that just doesn't appear as an option on new replies or old ones. Is the FAQ out of date, wrong, or is it because I'm a noob here? Share Share this post on Twitter

10-31-2011, 10:10 AM	#51
Len Green Senior Member $Len Green's Avatar$ Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 454	PostGrad is indeed a very smart Adventure gamer. Not only that, but he's spent a LOT of time & effort explaining the logic of that 'bomb puzzle'. To me it seems an extremely convoluted logic but he explained it in great detail and why his opinion it is PERFECTLY logical – and no bug or corrupted file or whatever. I still find the (his) logic pretty 'twisted' but never mind I managed to solve the puzzle to the end by trial & error. So MANY thanks PostGrad and all others who have helped! Cheers - Len. Share Share this post on Twitter

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