[squarejawhero]

http://www.bfi.org.uk/showing/nft/nt...%20Your%20Face

I'll let you know how it is! At last I found something to do this weekend... I know Trep will be interested.

[insane_cobra]

In related news, Alyx nude mod is out. Rejoice!

[squarejawhero]

Can't get over how amazingly good HL2 looks on a cinema screen. I'm actually going to probably end up writing an article on narrative in gaming, so I'll keep this short.

Basically, Valve have a very organic, freeform level design approach to narrative. This is something I don't particularly agree with, although as Van Buren said designing in a first person for freeform play is a bit like doing theatre "in the round", there's also pacing and initial impact amongst other things to think of. He took us through the use and implementation of the tools and the creation of ad-libbed animation made out of assets that come into play when needed, and the importance of scenes where hand animation comes into play.

I've come away with a deeper appreciation for the work in HL2 and more of an understanding of the difficulties of developing such a game. However, the organic nature of the narrative, even though it requires extensive testing and tweaking, sounds like a slow process. I do wonder whether sometimes developers try to take too much on, when they could simply hire someone who understands narrative (or writing, or voice direction, whatever) and quickly get through these sections rather than having to shape them over a period of time.

But I'll discuss that in the article.

[SakSquash]

I'm still mad at them for releasing a buggy game.

[squarejawhero]

Meh, it ran fine on his laptop.

Anyhow, even though a lot of what this guy said was illuminating, from my standpoint I find that games developers can often appear rather blasé about narrative and older, studied forms of televisual and filmic media. This is from reading magazine articles and Develop over the years, as well as meeting a few developers in person - naturally not ALL of them are like this and I'll admit to being rather blasé myself.

Speaking from my own standpoint as a professional with four years experience in what I do, games still suffer a level of immaturity as a fair few developers don't seem to understand some very basic skills in my own profession. I'll admit Valve do what they do incredibly well - but I question the need to keep retesting narrative sections when they could bring in people, like those who have actually experience in in-the-round theatrical production or someone such as myself who knows about narrative on the screen, and cut time on production.

Anyhow, I've said enough and will now attempt to shut my big mouth.

[Bastich]

You have to love the way people throw the word "cinematic" around regardless of what the word actually means. The implication in the link was hilarious. As if empathy and facial expressions have anything whatsoever to do with it, or even acting either. You'd think these things didn't exist before the late 19th century.

The term "cinematic gaming" is practically an oxymoron...

[sethsez]

The problem with narrative in games, as opposed to narrative in books, movies, etc. is that the audience has far more control over what actually happens in a game. What works in a movie or a novel or a play might not work at all in a game, and a game is far more restrictive than a book or a movie because it demands a certain level of interactivity and challenge. In many ways, game stories are simple and immature because the more complex you try to make them, the more it can affect the actual gameplay (unless you make the gameplay and the plot have nothing to do with each other, which is often the case and is generally frowned on). There's a balancing act that has to be maintained, and not a great deal of history to draw from relative to other mediums.

[insane_cobra]

I think there must be a way to match complex, user controlled stories with engaging gameplay, it's just that nobody's found it yet. Doesn't mean we shouldn't try. In fact, I think that's our imperative if we want games ever to grow beyond "kid's stuff", at least in the eyes of general public. Should we care about what general public thinks? No, but we shoud care about the medium and its growth.

What it boils down to is the old and, quite frankly, boring debate between narratologists and ludologists, but if you're still not tired of it, it's recently been discussed here.

[James]

we're still making black and white silent movies in terms of narrative - games are an entirely different artform, one which can really define itself and evolve in the next 10-15 years to overtake film as an entertainment medium. valve have lead the charge on pc, dragging the fps away from its heavy metal beginnings (doom, quake) into stadium rock delivered to the masses.

ps, hl2 wasn't buggy at all for me.

[squarejawhero]

I'm addressing all of you in different ways here.

I think HL2 DID manage to put together relatively complex narrative scenes with character interaction, but I worry that they're leaving behind older skills thinking they're not relevant. You can still "set up" shots when the character is engaged in the environment. You can still narrow them into a reveal, such as a narrow gap coming out into a great vista, and you can also compose that initial impact without sacrificing player freedom.

You can also compose "levels" much as you would compose a frame of film. From the initial setup, a player should be able to gather their goals - like a person that needs talking to - or even judge via sound or movement where it is they need to go. Valve have already secured a pretty tight system of player interaction, but a lot of the presentation yesterday I found a bit like blowing their own trumpet.

They still don't understand pacing as much as they need to, they still leave gaps where nothing's happening too much within the dialogue, they trumpet freedom yet really, like a film, their narrative scenes are tightly composed yet unbreakable within the confines of the players movements. Players, going through the game, missed out on details (like Tempsie, for example) where important narrative strands were left in relatively obscure places. They even showed a part within the game I didn't know existed!

The strongest parts are where they script the sequences, where posing takes over on the characters - believe it or not, posing and facial animation is very, very important within character-led scenes! But I do agree, "cinematic" is thrown about with much abandon and not much proof positive. Games by their very nature are closer to animation in terms of requirements. They are a different media, but ANYTHING involving narrative needs the respect of olders skills - you still tell stories, you still work from scripts, even if the player is moving within a 3D world freely you can still rely on older conventions, developed to heighten immersion in a far more restricted media, to deliver impact.

I think it's telling that the scenes we all remember the most from these games are the ones where scripting comes into play. Stories need storytellers.

[Lucien21]

Well Valve do have a professional author on staff who does the writing.

Marc Laidlaw was a published author before working on the Half Life games. Was even nominated for a World Fantasy Award.

http://www.fantasticfiction.co.uk/au...rc_Laidlaw.htm

Has anyone read his novels?

Are they any good?

[squarejawhero]

I haven't, but I can tell you for a fact that writing a script is different to writing a book, same as creating a comic is different to storyboarding.

[Lucien21]

Originally Posted by squarejawhero

I haven't, but I can tell you for a fact that writing a script is different to writing a book, same as creating a comic is different to storyboarding.

I would imagine the basic skills are the same and it's just a case of adapting your style and skills into a new way of working.

Chances are a professional author would have a better chance of making dialogue and narrative work within the structure of gaming than most game desingers who suddenly think they can write an award winning script.

What is required is the director type position who can take the script and meld the artwork and the script together into a finished product.

Take a look at Lucas in movies. Might be a reasonable director (and i'm not sold on that idea), but he can't write for sh1t.

[squarejawhero]

Originally Posted by Lucien21

I would imagine the basic skills are the same and it's just a case of adapting your style and skills into a new way of working.

Chances are a professional author would have a better chance of making dialogue and narrative work within the structure of gaming than most game desingers who suddenly think they can write an award winning script.

What is required is the director type position who can take the script and meld the artwork and the script together into a finished product.

Take a look at Lucas in movies. Might be a reasonable director (and i'm not sold on that idea), but he can't write for sh1t.

Well, I know scriptwriters and worked with scripts, and I've worked with scripts from good authors who don't understand how scripts work. I'm not saying it can't be done - that'd be shooting myself in the foot - but in general, authors don't write to demands. Scripts require people reign themselves in and understand the needs of understanding the geography of a scene, keep dialogue fresh and interesting, show don't tell - it's a different beast. You don't hire and author to write a script, you hire a scriptwriter to adapt their work.

I'd agree, though, an author would still be able to create a compelling story for a game, but chances are they won't be up to script creation. Scripts even require a different writing style. If they're willing to concede that style, and hold on long monologue/dialogue sequences and rampant descriptions, then great.

Then with a script, the director doesn't just come in and deal solely with that one thing. That's why they have voice directors, storyboard artists, concept artists, artists at different levels of production working for them. The director keeps everyone in tune with everyone else to make sure the thing is finished.

This is in animation. The director gets final approval, naturally. Games aren't like films - they're interactive animated movies, which is why comparing them to film is wrong. Graphics are still realtively simple, and any kind of directing for a stylised medium requires things be done a certain way so the human eye reacts to it correctly.