[Ninja Dodo]

http://www.gothic3.com

This is going to be much so much fun.

[Maquisard]

For a second there, I thought they were pictures from a Discovery chanel documentary.

[Intrepid Homoludens]

That's so pretty!

But seriously, if we were going for graphics alone, I'd still pick Oblivion. I have a weakness for that atmospheric bloom effect. So romantic.

[Ninja Dodo]

I don't know... I think, while technically impressive, some of Oblivions screens look a little artificial. Too much repetition and some strange colouring, plus they overdo the shinyness a lot. I guess it's debatable.

Either way, unless Elder Scrolls has changed in a big way, Gothic will kick its ass with story and character interaction.

[Fop]

Too bad Gothic's world is sleep-inducingly boring. Great games, but the world is extremely unoriginal.

Graphics wise Oblivion beats the hell out of what we've seen of Gothic 3.

[Ninja Dodo]

I disagree and I'm surprised you bring up boring in the context of comparing Gothic and Oblivion as I found the landscape to be the only reason to explore in Morrowind since nobody had anything interesting to say and you could do nothing but generic quests. Gothic on the other hand was great in that respect. A lot more varied and with a lot more character and story.

Perhaps we're not looking at the same screenshots but I think based on these shots, Gothic 3 looks a lot more genuine and alive than anything Oblivion has shown so far.

[CrimsonBlue]

Now, if they only manage to make decent controls... like Morrowind had. At least, it's better than in Gothic 2. Shame though, that Morrowind was a boring repetetive game at its best. Not sure about Gothic 2 there, but I couldn't get past the horrid controls.

[Ninja Dodo]

I think the controls are an acquired taste. Once you figure out that everything's action key (CTRL) plus arrow keys for variation it makes a lot more sense. The combat is interesting as well because you can use the arrow keys to make different moves and if you time your slashes correctly you fight much better. With a little effort you can even take on enemies that would statistically kick your ass, simply by being quick on your feet.

In Morrowind you just charge and *click* *click* *click* until statistics decide that you've hit something. The single most boring combat system I've ever seen.

If they could only figure out a better way of dealing with multiple opponents in Gothic I think the controls would be perfect.

[Fop]

Originally Posted by Ninja Dodo

I disagree and I'm surprised you bring up boring in the context of comparing Gothic and Oblivion as I found the landscape to be the only reason to explore in Morrowind since nobody had anything interesting to say and you could do nothing but generic quests. Gothic on the other hand was great in that respect. A lot more varied and with a lot more character and story.

That's not completely true. Morrowind's NPCs were boring (except some very specific ones like Vivec), true. Gothic had a bit better NPCs, but they weren't very good either. The localization wasn't always very good and there were some absolutely horribly bad ones like Mud or whoever. Of course Gothic had oodles of generic 'Guard' or 'Digger' NPCs. At least Morrowind had names for them and you could ask about locations of towns and so forth. It's not like you got to know any of the NPCs in Gothic. Mostly they just gave you things to do.

That you could only do 'generic quests' in Morrowind is absolutely false. Morrowind had the main storyline and a whole bunch of other quests. IMO Morrowind's story is clearly better than Gothic's story, while Gothic 1's was pretty decent. Gothic 2 on the other hand had a horribly simple storyline that no CRPG after Ultima 4 should have had.

Spoiler:

Basically you're there to kill some dragons.

[Ninja Dodo]

I never got very far into the story of Morrowind because of a stupidly tiny Dwarf artifact that I never managed to find (even though I closely inspected the room it's supposed to be in) so I just roamed around a lot and suffice it to say that I didn't find any quests beyond "get this thing" or "kill this person". So there may be a decent story at some point, but a pointless and annoying quest kept me from getting to it.

... and you're grossly oversimplifying the story of Gothic 2. There's the whole martial law angle and why the paladins are in town, the war with the orcs, there's landowner Onar's rebellion and his alliance with the mercenaries from the old prison colony, there's the dragons and Xardas' role in the whole thing... There's a lot more going on than just "kill the dragons". A lot of the NPCs have interesting personalities and the dialogue, though not always perfect, is often interesting... whereas in Morrowind talking to NPCs is like reading a science book. Just dry fact... no character whatsoever.

The ending in Gothic 2...

Spoiler:

with the dragon could have been better. That was a bit of a disappointment after all the buildup... But I did like the twist with Xardas at the end, absorbing the power of Beliar.

[Fop]

Well, I didn't really count most of that stuff as story. It's filler (which is good - every RPG needs filler or the world is void) and much more decent than the main storyline.

I've already admitted the problems with NPCs in Morrowind. There are a few exceptions which you haven't seen if you didn't play far into the game (except the cat-woman in Pelagiad). On the whole Gothic's NPCs are better than Morrowinds clearly, but they could be and should be better. Certainly no match for KOTOR or Planescape: Torment.

[log p]

um...oblivion rules!...sorry, i know that was incredibly insightful...since gothic 3 will most assuredly not be on next gen consoles i will not play it...but i think some of the problems of morrowind mentioned in this thread will be corrected in oblivion, such as NPC interaction and vague quest hints - as those seemed to be two of the greatest complaints...those are pretty pictures though so lets leave it at they both look vibrant and colorful...i give you that and please dont smack me for not being PCG (player of computer games)

[Ninja Dodo]

Originally Posted by Fop

Well, I didn't really count most of that stuff as story. It's filler (which is good - every RPG needs filler or the world is void) and much more decent than the main storyline.

Well, that's like saying that Tarantino films have no story. Sure, there's not much plot to speak of, but the storytelling is there in the details and the characters.

One thing I do hope they sort out is the voice acting... cause there is way too much repetition of voices on different characters. Some voices are also a lot better than others. I was very disappointed that they changed Diego's great voice from Gothic 1 to a whiny jerk in Gothic 2.

Pity you don't play PC games, log. There's some real gems out there.

[Fop]

I wonder why they never converted Gothic 1 and 2 to a console. Even the control scheme would've worked great.

[Intrepid Homoludens]

HA!! Jade Empire's combat scheme kicks Gothic 2's ass into next year!! Nyah!!!

[squarejawhero]

Guild Wars gives them both wedgies and runs off with the laydeez! HA!

[insane_cobra]

The trailer is out.

(Anyway, I still think Oblivion looks better, except for those cave shots, those stalactites and stalagmites look awful. Plus, I'm a sucker for The Elder Scrolls games )

[Ninja Dodo]

The thing refuses to download for some reason...

[Ninja Dodo]

Got it from a different link now. Awesome stuff.

One thing I like about Gothic is that eventhough it's medieval fantasy it's got kind of a gritty natural feel about it and it's epic without being camp. I also love the European-style forests, a welcome change from empty wastelands and meadows.

[Kolorabi]

I don't see the point of trying to decide whether Gothic II was better than Morrowind or not (my worthless opinion: it was not), as they did a lot of things very differently. I think the bottom line here is that both Gothic III and Oblivion look great so far, and if you're a fan of the genre, you probably can't afford to miss either of them. Unless something goes wrong and one or both end up being stinkers.