[EasilyConfused]

Okay, I don't know, I'm THINKING about maybe trying out an RPG . . . The last time I played one of these was in 6th grade on a 64K Atari that we thought was the greatest thing since sliced bread. I take it the technology has advanced some.

I would really like some advice though about whether I would even like these, how much I need to know, and what to buy. Straight up, I'm not ANY good at anything that requires manual dexterity in a timed situation--BS3 was a nightmare for me, and even

Spoiler:

dumb things like zapping the Octopus in Beyond Atlantis or slashing the guy on the train in Last Express stressed me out and I had to try a bunch of times.

So I can't tell if battles in all of these games are action-based, or there are ones where you can just sort of puzzle it out or something. Also, since I haven't played anything D&D-like since grade school, I don't know any rules, just a few concepts.

I like the idea of open gameplay, but if it's way too open and I can't tell what to do, what do I do???!! I've heard that KOTOR for example is a little more linear. Thoughts?

And finally I don't know about graphics. I was thinking, gee, maybe I should just get Baldur's Gate II, you know, go with some classic, but the screenshots I've seen just look--well frankly they look pretty weird.

Any advice would be mucho appreciated, including "These games are SO not for you," in which case I'll just suck it up and shell out more money on eBay for the adventures I still haven't played.

[Intrepid Homoludens]

I'm more or less in the same boat with you, EC, but I'll tell you my experience with KoTOR. To start, it is easily one of the finest games I've ever experienced in any game genre. It felt like a very, very deep adventure game, and that aspect of it you'll most likely fall in love with, but I'll elaborate in a bit. It's part real time combat, part turn based, which means you have the option of freezing the action and selecting what strikes and moves each of your teammate will perform in the heat of battle. It works on the dice roll method (someone else here more knowledgeable than I can explain this), which lends a dynamic edge to the action. You can switch between characters (as in any RPG), especially to exploit their individual skills (hacking, stealth, toughness, etc.). The system is complex enough if you want to individually tweak your characters, but it also has an auto-level function if you get, um.....EasilyConfused.

Now, as I mentioned, it's very deep in terms of adventuring. The story and everything are pretty linear, yes, but branching paths, subplots, and optional quests are what truly make it so dimensional. The typical adventure game has tons to learn from this. There are situations involving dialogue 'puzzles' (like acting as defender for a murder suspect in a trial), logic puzzles, and some others. There are moments when you just want to get to know one of your teammates, and yes, you will want to do that because each and every one of them has their own story to tell, actual sidequests in themselves. I fell in love with that part of the experience.

If you decide to play KoTOR you shouldn't have too much trouble figuring out how the game works, but just have fun and take your time and try to discover everything. It's that deep.

There are other RPGs that may be better, I dunno. I've only myself finally begun to get into them. I'm planning on playing Bloodlines soon. Planescape Torment has also been getting very high recommendations around here. There's also Fable (which I loved), but that's very heavily real time combat based, you might wanna wait til you're better at it, heh.

[BacardiJim]

You definitely want to stick to a game that offers turn-based combat or at least a choice between turn-based and real-time combat. I haven't played KotOR, but I am one of those who strongly recommends Planescape: Torment. It is actually based on the TSR D&D rules system, so it will offer at least a smidgeon of familiarity. It has an extremely well-written storyline and offers you your choice of which combat system you prefer. The view is a 3/4-overhead "isometric" viewpoint, allowing you to see all your characters at the same time.


If you prefer a 1st-person perspective, you might check out the Might & Magic games. They are fairly self-explanatory and easy to jump into. Alternatively, you can't go wrong with the Pools of Radiance series. These were published by TSR and are set in the D&D world, using the same rules.

Finally, if it is strong storyline you like, you might want to investigate the Final Fantasy games. They are relatively linear, but have good strong plots and don't require a ton of micro-management. Unfortunately, most of them are available for platform only, with only a couple of titles available for PC. However, they are widely regarded as the best platform RPG series around.

[Sirus]

KOTOR and Torment are both good. I'd also recommend Fallout, it's definitely the best RPG I've ever played. The combat is turn based so there's no reflex's involved. There's alot of freedom, but not so much that you just wander aimlessly and the graphics(IMO) have aged gracefully.

[EasilyConfused]

Thanks for the really helpful advice, guys. I trust both of your opinions a lot. Trep, it's from hearing you praise KOTOR that I thought, hm, maybe I would like this. BacardiJim, Planescape Torment has been the one that seemed by far the most interesting to me in terms of story--I wish it were easier to get a hold of. (I'm clearly going to have to get more aggressive in this dept.) The other games you and Sirus mentioned I hadn't really looked into so I definitely will--I love the forum!

[TigerShard]

I would have to agree that Fallout is a gem in terms of PC RPGs. I spent countless hours on that game.

As far as console RPGs, the Final Fantasy series has its ups and downs, but most of the games are good. If you want turn based combat, play Final Fantasy X, since all the other Playstation installments have an active battle system.

I personally would recommend Dragon Warrior VII if you have a Playstation. While it does not have the greatest story, it really captures the sense of adventure better than any or RPG I have ever played. You spend at least the first two hours of the game without fighting any monters, and yet it still had me hoooked. The game has a fairly advanced job/class system which is also fun to play with. The game is very old school though in graphics, sound effects, battle system, and menus, but those are some of the things that make the Dragon Warrior series so much fun overall. Just be warned, it took me 75 hours to finish the game, and that was without getting access to the final hidden dungeon.

[Ninja Dodo]

If you don't mind a little dynamic hack&slash action with a keyboard/mouse combo, then Gothic is the ideal RPG-adventure for you. The sequel is even more awesome. I wrote a reader review some time ago.

[TigerShard]

I personally would not recommend Gothic to a first time RPG player. The controls are a bit difficult to learn and use, and that is one of the reasons I gave up on the game.

[SoccerDude28]

I agree with trep on this one. KOTOR is by far the best adventure/RPG I am yet to play. It is so deep and has so many characters and twists and turns that it'll stay fresh through out. But to love KOTOR, you will need to realize that all RPG's involve a lot of fighting, which turns off a lot of people around here. Also, KOTOR is based on the Star wars universe, so if you are not a star wars fan, it might turn you off. But if you love star wars, and don't mind some action, KOTOR kicks every other RPG where the sun doesn't shine

[BacardiJim]

errrrmmmm..... did anyone notice that EasilyConfused specifically mentioned that he did not want action/reflex controls of any kind? That he found the controls of BS3 too much? And yet.... here is a cavalcade of recommendations for KotOR, which absolutely demands quick reflexes for the real-time combat sequences. Yes, it's a good game, but how about giving the original poster what he wants instead of what you like, folks?

In fact, can't we try to do that more in ALL of the recommendaton threads? There is a thread going on in the General forum where a guy asked for horror/murder mystery game recommendations (that don't have the cutesy fantasy elements), and people are suggesting Syberia and Grim Fandango.

Sorry to go off on a rant here, but.... maybe we could all make it our New Year's resolution to actually try to help people find what they want instead of trying to force something they have explicitly stated they don't want but we like on them?

Waddya say, folks?

[fov]

I'm not an RPGer by any means, but the RPGs I really like are Final Fantasy games and the Quest for Glory games. Both have a lot of adventure elements and turn-based combat (and you can pause during the combat in FF games, not sure about QfG), and in a way figuring out what spells, etc. to use against an enemy is like a puzzle.

I started Planescape: Torment and I don't really like it. Everyone speaks highly of it but I found the combat to be just button mashing (maybe because I never got past the learning curve), had a real hard time getting the hang of the interface (I never really got it), and somehow didn't feel as connected to the character(s) as I do in FF and QfG games. Also there's a lot of reading involved and I have a hard time staying focused on text in games. I will probably not finish it... in fact, if all this doesn't turn you off and you're still looking for a copy, maybe we can trade.

-emily

ps FF7 and FF8 were released on the PC but the ports are a little hard to find now. I have not played any of the ones on a console but may someday get a Playstation just so I can. FF8 is one of my very favorite games.

[Jackal]

Originally Posted by BacardiJim

And yet.... here is a cavalcade of recommendations for KotOR, which absolutely demands quick reflexes for the real-time combat sequences.

Nope, KOTOR does not demand quick reflexes in combat. The first thing the game does on spotting an enemy is freeze the game for commands. It can then be paused at any time to issue queued menu commands. It's extremely newbie friendly (and a brilliant game).

EC, I'd also strongly recommend Anachronox. Another story-driven game with fantastic writing, full 3D (not isometric like BG2 or Planescape), and the combat is entirely turn-based. Phenomenal game.

[Ninja Dodo]

Good point, BJ... but the thing is you're going to be hard pressed to find an RPG that doesn't involve either action or lots of number crunching. You can get a good few games without frantic action but they usually involve juggling loads of stats...

[LeisureSuitedLooney]

I'd suggest KOTOR as well. In the game I played, I had turn-based combat on, so it really wasn't all that difficult to play...and I'm not a big fan of realtime combat!

Also, Neverwinter Nights is fun, and there are enough quests in all 3 of its games to keep you playing for a loooong time...not to mention all of the fan-made modules that are downloadable. And again, combat is turn-based.

Arcanum was a pretty interesting game, set in a world where technology met sword & sorcery, and it was possible to play with very little combat, if your charisma and beauty were high enough-but good luck getting it to run under Windows XP. Pity, too...that game's character creation system was a blast to fiddle around with. And you could choose turn-based combat in thisone, as well...but running away and using your stats, like I sid, was very possible,

[Estoy Loco]

I would suggest anything from Nippon Ichi. Currently they have three games out in the US: Disgaea, La Pucelle Tactics and Phantom Brave. All three of these games are Strategy/RPG hybrids, where your characters are place on a grid where you tell them what to do. You have as much time as you want to command your characters, and there's no pressure at all to hurry up and choose something. Plus, they all have great stories that are serious one moment and funny the other. They were all released pretty close together, and are all really similar(except for the stories). Each one is only on PS2 though, which could be a problem if you don't have one.

[SoccerDude28]

Originally Posted by BacardiJim

errrrmmmm..... did anyone notice that EasilyConfused specifically mentioned that he did not want action/reflex controls of any kind? That he found the controls of BS3 too much? And yet.... here is a cavalcade of recommendations for KotOR, which absolutely demands quick reflexes for the real-time combat sequences. Yes, it's a good game, but how about giving the original poster what he wants instead of what you like, folks?

In fact, can't we try to do that more in ALL of the recommendaton threads? There is a thread going on in the General forum where a guy asked for horror/murder mystery game recommendations (that don't have the cutesy fantasy elements), and people are suggesting Syberia and Grim Fandango.

Sorry to go off on a rant here, but.... maybe we could all make it our New Year's resolution to actually try to help people find what they want instead of trying to force something they have explicitly stated they don't want but we like on them?

Waddya say, folks?

Easily confused is a she And I truly think she will love it, and it can be turn based or real time based. You can choose the pace at which you want to play it I mean a game to be nominated for the best game of the year last year must be something special.

[EasilyConfused]

Originally Posted by SoccerDude28

Easily confused is a she

Thank you, SoccerDude. It's not BacardiJim's fault because my Christmas avatar is, well, a bit genderless, but I was feeling slightly unfeminine.

Originally Posted by SoccerDude28

And I truly think she will love it, and it can be turn based or real time based. You can choose the pace at which you want to play it I mean a game to be nominated for the best game of the year last year must be something special.

Good to know. I really have been following this thread (sometimes I wonder whether the people who ask for advice pay any attention to it afterwards) and all the info here has been really helpful. Thanks again, and hopefully some other folks who want to get into this stuff or who haven't played these specific games will benefit. And for the record, I only have a PC, but for people with platform systems, the other suggestions looked great too.

[TigerShard]

Someone mentioned Anachronox, which I picked up recently. If anyone else is interested in the game...

Anachronox $7.99 New

[Jazhara7]

I really like the "Baldur's Gate" Saga.

Check out Sorcerer's Place for more information.

Also, there is Planet Baldurs Gate , although I think Sorcerer's Place is better.


-

[Crunchy in milk]

Torment is a great game provided you go into it with some foreknowledge.

Put a lot of your starting points into wisdom at the beginning. Wisdom is the most important stat in Torment, opening up a lot of dialogue options including insight into your 'past lives'. It also gives you a huge boost to experience points gained meaning you'll level up steadily throughout the game (just from dialogue) keeping the character development process interesting.

Intelligence and charisma are also great stats to boost as they too bring new options to lots of dialogue and make skipping some of the hardest battles possible.

It takes a bit of out of the box thinking to really appreciate torment, it doesn't flow like a standard rpg at all and really puts KOTOR to shame when it comes to choices influencing game outcomes. How many other games out there deal so well with issues of religion, philosophy, personal motivation and emotional baggage?

I cringe at the amount of praise KOTOR gets as an rpg when the 'roleplaying' in it is extremely hemmed in. It might be the perfect rpg for 'newbies' because of this though. There's little chance of getting lost or overwhelmed in KOTOR because the safety rails throughout keep you on the path.

LeisuresuitedLooney's suggested Arcanum and I would concur, the turn based combat is well presented and the character system in it makes 'common sense', unlike the very dice/rule focused D&D like systems. Each time you level up you get a point and you can chuck it where you want, building a character that suits you rather than trying to fit into a mold. I had no trouble getting it to run in Windows xp however (on an antiquated geforce 2 mind you) apart from the 2 hour slow down bug which occurs in windows 98 anyway and requires you to restart the game after so long to 'stop the chop'. The story isn't quite as interesting or amusingly told as Torment however. Its a shame falling in love with Torment takes a lot of time and effort because it can really reward you for it.