[JHousequake]

The good lads over at RetroGamer magazine decided to compile this list by getting the customers who read the mag to mail in their list of what they thought the best game of all time was. The criteria was that there was no real criteria, you can pick the game you enjoyed the most or what you thought was the biggest innovator and what came out was one of the most weirdest top 100 lists you'll ever see. However, the list generally covers a lot of classic well known games with one or two of the newest fun games on the market. Adventure games will be listed in red text. Enjoy!

100. Turrican (Electronic Arts, 1990)
99. Spy Hunter (Midway, 1984)
98. Sim City (Maxis, 1989)
97. Resident Evil 2 (Capcom, 1998)
96. Missle Command (Atari, 1980)
95. Grand Theft Auto 3 (Rockstar Games, 2002)
94. Gran Turismo 3 (!) (Sony, 2003)
93. Final Fantasy (Squaresoft, 1987)
92. Delta (Thalamus, 1987)
91. Championship Manager (Domark, 1992)
90. The Last Ninja (System 3, 1987)
89. Super Metroid (Nintendo, 1994)
88. Double Dragon (Taito, 1987)
87. Star Wars (Atari, 1982)
86. Shining Force (Sega, 1992)
85. Pitfall (Activision, 1982)
84. Pirates! (MicroProse, 1987)
83. Oids (FTL Games, 1987)
82. Mr. Do! (Universal, 1982)
81. Mayhem In Monsterland (Apex, 1993)
80. Mario Kart 64 (Nintendo, 1996)
79. Jet Set Willy 2 (Software Projects, 1985)
78. Exile (Superior Software, 1989)
77. Donkey Kong (Nintendo, 1981)
76. Turrican II (Rainbow Arts, 1991)
75. Soul Calibur (Namco, 1999)
74. Secret Of Mana (Squaresoft, 1993)
73. Repton (Superior Software, 1985)
72. New Zealand Story (Taito, 1989)
71. Magicland Dizzy (Codemasters, 1990)
70. Metal Gear Solid (Konami, 1998)
69. Match Day II (Ocean, 1988)
68. The Last Ninja II (System 3, 1990)
67. James Pond II: Robocod (US Gold, 1991)
66. Shenmue 2 (Sega, 2001)
65. Flash Back (US Gold, 1992)
64. Street Of Rage II (Sega, 1993)
63. Laser Squad (Blade Software, 1988)
62. Ultima Underworld (Origin, 1992)
61. Cannon Fodder (Sensible Software, 1993)
60. Worms (Infogrames, 1995)
59. Football Manager (Addictive, 1981)
58. Yoshi's Island (Nintendo, 1995)
57. Sonic The Hedgehog 3 (Sega, 1993)
56. Sensible World Of Soccer (Sensible Software, 1995)
55. Mortal Kombat (Acclaim, 1992)
54. Kick Off II (Anco, 1990)
53. Lords Of Midnight (Beyond, 1984)
52. Jet Pac (Ultimate, 1983)
51. Atic Atic (Ultimate, 1983)
50. Gunstar Heroes (Treasure, 1994)
49. Galaxian (Namco, 1979)
48. Street Fighter II Turbo (Capcom, 1992)
47. Dizzy (Codemasters, 1987)
46. Sabre Wolf (Ultimate, 1984)
45. Impossible Mission (Epyx, 1984)
44. OutRun (Sega, 1986)
43. Speedball II: Brutal Deluxe (Bitmap Brothers, 1991)
42. Sonic The Hedgehog 2 (Sega, 1992)
41. Chaos (Games Workshop, 1985)
40. Skool Daze (Microsphere, 1985)
39. Ghosts 'n' Goblins (Capcom, 1985)
38. Half-Life (Valve, 1998)
37. Resident Evil (Capcom, 1996)
36. Super Brothers Bros. 3 (Nintendo, 1988)
35. Head Over Heels (Ocean, 1987)
34. Dungeon Master (FTL, 1989)
33. The Secret Of Monkey Island (Lucasfilm Games, 1990)
32. R-Type (Irem, 1987)
31. Boulder Dash (Eddy, 1984)
30. Rainbow Islands (Taito, 1987)
29. Civilisation (MicroProse, 1991)
28. Chuckie Egg (A'n'F, 1983)
27. Street Fighter II (Capcom, 1991)
26. GoldenEye (Rare, 1997)
25. Wizball (Ocean, 1987)
24. Super Mario Bros. (Nintendo, 1985)
23. Paradroid (Graftgold, 1985)
22. Knight Lore (Ultimate, 1984)
21. Lemmings (Psygnosis, 1991)
20. Frontier: Elite II (GameTek, 1992)
19. Tomb Raider (Eidos, 1996)
18. Halo (ARGH!!!) (Microsoft, 2002)
17. Super Mario 64 (Nintendo, 1996)
16. Zelda: A Link To The Past (Nintendo, 1991)
15. Grand Theft Auto: Vice City (Rockstar Games, 2002)
14. Tetris (Alexey Pajitov, 1986)
13. Super Mario Kart (Nintendo, 1992)
12. Bubble Bobble (Taito, 1986)
11. Sonic The Hedgehog (Sega, 1991)
10. Pac-Man (Namco, 1980)
9. DOOM (id Software, 1994)
8. Sensible Soccer (Sensible Software, 1992)
7. Jet Set Willy (Software Projects, 1984)
6. Space Invaders (Taito, 1978)
5. Zelda: Ocarina Of Time (Nintendo, 1998)
4. Final Fantasy VII (Square, 1997)
3. Manic Miner (Bug-Byte, 1983)
2. Super Mario World (Nintendo, 1990)

and no. 1;

1. CUSTER'S REVENGE!!!

Just kidding, no. 1 is Elite.

[SamandMax]

Tomb Raider's #19? Wow.

[MDMaster]

Two zeldas in the top 20... scary. Plain scary.

[Kolzig]

Hmm here's some games from the top 20 that I don't quite understand why they are there.

20. Frontier: Elite II (GameTek, 1992)

- I remember that Elite was superb and that Elite 2 was supposed to be even more superb, but I played this on my Amiga and it wasn't that good game.

19. Tomb Raider (Eidos, 1996)

- Yeah, I know that Tomb Raider 1 deserves credit for being the starter of the huge still continuing wave of third person view games. But it just isn't even top 80 material.

18. Halo (ARGH!!!) (Microsoft, 2002)

- This I disagree the most, I wouldn't include Halo even in a top 150 list.

15. Grand Theft Auto: Vice City (Rockstar Games, 2002)

- This is more like ranks 100-->, not 15th.

8. Sensible Soccer (Sensible Software, 1992)

- Sensible was a classic soccer game, but Kick Off 2 was better than it. And neither of them are even top 50 material.

7. Jet Set Willy (Software Projects, 1984)

- This I have never played so can't say what wrong with it, or what's so great about it.

4. Final Fantasy VII (Square, 1997)

- Hmmm...

[mag]

Originally Posted by Kolzig

4. Final Fantasy VII (Square, 1997)

- Hmmm...

The only thing strange about this is that it's not higher.

mag

[Starflux]

[flame] No, the only strange thing is that so many people are still so infatuated with this example of badly aged design. [/flame]

[Kolzig]

All in all, top lists suck.

It's almost always based on one guys opinions or something like that.

[mag]

Originally Posted by Flux

[flame] No, the only strange thing is that so many people are still so infatuated with this example of badly aged design. [/flame]

No! You did NOT just insult Final Fantasy VII! Them's fighin' words!

mag Flux

I don't know how you can even call yourself a gamer if you don't like FF7.

mag

[Starflux]

Look, I can easily understand that FFVII wowed many people when it first came out. But that doesn't mean that it's a classic, legendary game. That is only proven through time. If you'd look at it for the first time now, like I did a couple of months ago, you'd see that it has aged terrifically badly. I see how they've done a few things right, and that they were, for their time, even somewhat revolutionary, but I must be honest: it's just badly designed.

All those minigames are horrible and nigh unplayable. The story is thrown at you in huge, clunky chunks outside of the actual game, interrupting the flow. There is a strange paradox where the characters are portrayed highly realistic and serious in braindead fighting sequences, but turn into cute little caricatures whenever there's actual dramatic story to be told. And you know all those wonderfully rendered, plentiful backgrounds that make you want to interact until your hands fall off? Well you CAN'T, because the backgrounds are as lifeless and dead as it gets. Interaction is practically zero, making for an unbelievable and dead world that convinces only as cardboard scenery for an uninteresting landscape. The beginning of the game is very strong, but as soon as one enters the overworld for the first time, the game falls flat on its mouth: an overworld promises a high degree of non-linearity, but you are strained on a single path that forces you down an astoundingly linear game. The game is very unforgiving in its fighting system, and its system to win is ridiculous: you first have to die before you can win. During boss-fights, you'll most often die at first, just so you can learn how to defeat the enemy. And the fighting system (and thus the game, because it's the most important thing in the rpg) is just one big treadmill of uninspired gameplay where you have to level up to meet stronger opponents, endlessly repeating itself. In some games it works (Diablo comes to mind), but when the battles themselves become boring hassles (that jump at you randomly to make things worse; making traversing the world a very jittery and frustrating experience indeed!), you know it's not going to be good. Do I HAVE to begin about those deucedly excessive summoning-animations, that could have been so easily made skippable?

Final Fantasy VII would have worked well as an interactive storybook, but its own ludicrous pretentions derive it of any redeeming charm because it fails to achieve almost all of them. After about 20 hours of play I just lost interest to game on, realising it was more of a chore than a delight to play. I am only being so harsh and unforgiving on the game because the whole world doesn't seem to be able to see the game in a reasonable perspective. I can see why, despite all these flaws, you still like to play the game, if you happen to take a particular interest in the story, or like the fighting, or you're in love with Sephiroth, or whatever. But please don't treat it like it's the ultimate game ever made. Because it really isn't that good.

[mag]

Originally Posted by Flux

Look, I can easily understand that FFVII wowed many people when it first came out. But that doesn't mean that it's a classic, legendary game. That is only proven through time. If you'd look at it for the first time now, like I did a couple of months ago, you'd see that it has aged terrifically badly. I see how they've done a few things right, and that they were, for their time, even somewhat revolutionary, but I must be honest: it's just badly designed.

Newflash! This just in from Flux! Games look older as time goes by! More on this story at 11.

I dunno. It sounds to me like your main beef with the game is that it's a role playing game. And some of what your complaints like about it being "astoundingly linear" makes me wonder if you even played it.

mag

[SoccerDude28]

Originally Posted by JHousequake

The good lads over at RetroGamer magazine decided to compile this list by getting the customers who read the mag to mail in their list of what they thought the best game of all time was. The criteria was that there was no real criteria, you can pick the game you enjoyed the most or what you thought was the biggest innovator and what came out was one of the most weirdest top 100 lists you'll ever see. However, the list generally covers a lot of classic well known games with one or two of the newest fun games on the market. Adventure games will be listed in red text. Enjoy!

100. Turrican (Electronic Arts, 1990)
99. Spy Hunter (Midway, 1984)
98. Sim City (Maxis, 1989)
97. Resident Evil 2 (Capcom, 1998)
96. Missle Command (Atari, 1980)
95. Grand Theft Auto 3 (Rockstar Games, 2002)
94. Gran Turismo 3 (!) (Sony, 2003)
93. Final Fantasy (Squaresoft, 1987)
92. Delta (Thalamus, 1987)
91. Championship Manager (Domark, 1992)
90. The Last Ninja (System 3, 1987)
89. Super Metroid (Nintendo, 1994)
88. Double Dragon (Taito, 1987)
87. Star Wars (Atari, 1982)
86. Shining Force (Sega, 1992)
85. Pitfall (Activision, 1982)
84. Pirates! (MicroProse, 1987)
83. Oids (FTL Games, 1987)
82. Mr. Do! (Universal, 1982)
81. Mayhem In Monsterland (Apex, 1993)
80. Mario Kart 64 (Nintendo, 1996)
79. Jet Set Willy 2 (Software Projects, 1985)
78. Exile (Superior Software, 1989)
77. Donkey Kong (Nintendo, 1981)
76. Turrican II (Rainbow Arts, 1991)
75. Soul Calibur (Namco, 1999)
74. Secret Of Mana (Squaresoft, 1993)
73. Repton (Superior Software, 1985)
72. New Zealand Story (Taito, 1989)
71. Magicland Dizzy (Codemasters, 1990)
70. Metal Gear Solid (Konami, 1998)
69. Match Day II (Ocean, 1988)
68. The Last Ninja II (System 3, 1990)
67. James Pond II: Robocod (US Gold, 1991)
66. Shenmue 2 (Sega, 2001)
65. Flash Back (US Gold, 1992)
64. Street Of Rage II (Sega, 1993)
63. Laser Squad (Blade Software, 1988)
62. Ultima Underworld (Origin, 1992)
61. Cannon Fodder (Sensible Software, 1993)
60. Worms (Infogrames, 1995)
59. Football Manager (Addictive, 1981)
58. Yoshi's Island (Nintendo, 1995)
57. Sonic The Hedgehog 3 (Sega, 1993)
56. Sensible World Of Soccer (Sensible Software, 1995)
55. Mortal Kombat (Acclaim, 1992)
54. Kick Off II (Anco, 1990)
53. Lords Of Midnight (Beyond, 1984)
52. Jet Pac (Ultimate, 1983)
51. Atic Atic (Ultimate, 1983)
50. Gunstar Heroes (Treasure, 1994)
49. Galaxian (Namco, 1979)
48. Street Fighter II Turbo (Capcom, 1992)
47. Dizzy (Codemasters, 1987)
46. Sabre Wolf (Ultimate, 1984)
45. Impossible Mission (Epyx, 1984)
44. OutRun (Sega, 1986)
43. Speedball II: Brutal Deluxe (Bitmap Brothers, 1991)
42. Sonic The Hedgehog 2 (Sega, 1992)
41. Chaos (Games Workshop, 1985)
40. Skool Daze (Microsphere, 1985)
39. Ghosts 'n' Goblins (Capcom, 1985)
38. Half-Life (Valve, 1998)
37. Resident Evil (Capcom, 1996)
36. Super Brothers Bros. 3 (Nintendo, 1988)
35. Head Over Heels (Ocean, 1987)
34. Dungeon Master (FTL, 1989)
33. The Secret Of Monkey Island (Lucasfilm Games, 1990)
32. R-Type (Irem, 1987)
31. Boulder Dash (Eddy, 1984)
30. Rainbow Islands (Taito, 1987)
29. Civilisation (MicroProse, 1991)
28. Chuckie Egg (A'n'F, 1983)
27. Street Fighter II (Capcom, 1991)
26. GoldenEye (Rare, 1997)
25. Wizball (Ocean, 1987)
24. Super Mario Bros. (Nintendo, 1985)
23. Paradroid (Graftgold, 1985)
22. Knight Lore (Ultimate, 1984)
21. Lemmings (Psygnosis, 1991)
20. Frontier: Elite II (GameTek, 1992)
19. Tomb Raider (Eidos, 1996)
18. Halo (ARGH!!!) (Microsoft, 2002)
17. Super Mario 64 (Nintendo, 1996)
16. Zelda: A Link To The Past (Nintendo, 1991)
15. Grand Theft Auto: Vice City (Rockstar Games, 2002)
14. Tetris (Alexey Pajitov, 1986)
13. Super Mario Kart (Nintendo, 1992)
12. Bubble Bobble (Taito, 1986)
11. Sonic The Hedgehog (Sega, 1991)
10. Pac-Man (Namco, 1980)
9. DOOM (id Software, 1994)
8. Sensible Soccer (Sensible Software, 1992)
7. Jet Set Willy (Software Projects, 1984)
6. Space Invaders (Taito, 1978)
5. Zelda: Ocarina Of Time (Nintendo, 1998)
4. Final Fantasy VII (Square, 1997)
3. Manic Miner (Bug-Byte, 1983)
2. Super Mario World (Nintendo, 1990)

and no. 1;

1. CUSTER'S REVENGE!!!

Just kidding, no. 1 is Elite.

Is this magazine online or is it a paper magazine? Any links?

Thanks

[Starflux]

Originally Posted by mag

Newflash! This just in from Flux! Games look older as time goes by! More on this story at 11.

I dunno. It sounds to me like your main beef with the game is that it's a role playing game. And some of what your complaints like about it being "astoundingly linear" makes me wonder if you even played it.

mag

Please note that not once did I discuss the graphics. I love retro and play many old games myself. I would not dare judge a game by mere technology.

Also note that I'm not saying these things out of spite. If I am somewhat feisty about the topic it's because I can't even seem to speak my disappointment in public sometimes without being physically slapped over the head by some crazed girl who thinks this game is the best thing ever.

I'd like to hear why exactly you are so enormously enthralled by this game, and why you would defend it to death. Explain to me; someone who did obviously not get it; why FFVII is simply the best piece of software ever created. Try not to use such subjective arguments such as "Cloud is Teh Sexy", but rather discuss the points I saw as flaws of the game, or explain why these mean little to you. And be objective, if you can

[Tanukitsune]

I don't know if Jet Set Willy deserves nº7 but it sure does deserve to be in it! 8-)

I do believe most of the modern ones don't deserve to be in there... 2002 games? Retro? Oh PUH-LEAZE!

[mag]

Originally Posted by Flux

Please note that not once did I discuss the graphics. I love retro and play many old games myself. I would not dare judge a game by mere technology.

Also note that I'm not saying these things out of spite. If I am somewhat feisty about the topic it's because I can't even seem to speak my disappointment in public sometimes without being physically slapped over the head by some crazed girl who thinks this game is the best thing ever.

I'd like to hear why exactly you are so enormously enthralled by this game, and why you would defend it to death. Explain to me; someone who did obviously not get it; why FFVII is simply the best piece of software ever created. Try not to use such subjective arguments such as "Cloud is Teh Sexy", but rather discuss the points I saw as flaws of the game, or explain why these mean little to you. And be objective, if you can

Well, I'm not going to defend it to death. I'm not one of those teeny boppers that love it just because they think Sephiroth is hot (although, Cloud really is Teh Sexy ). I'll even admit it has certain flaws. I just think those flaws are relatively minor.

I personally liked the minigames. Especially the chocobo racing. FF7 had more and better minigames than just about any other adventure/role playing game I've ever seen. That, along with some awesome side quests really added a lot to the game. It helped flesh out the world and made the game a lot less linear even with its heavy reliance on story.

I also enjoyed the combat system. I've heard the complaint about it being repetitive before, but I just don't see it. It's no more repetitive than say, Diablo. It's just a different style. The random battles are a pretty common style among these kinds of games. It never really bothered me. People saying they don't like the game because of the random battles always struck me as kind of like saying you don't like adventure games because of all the puzzles. And saying you have to die in order to beat a boss isn't very accurate. The bosses are difficult to beat because they're bosses. But if you know what you're doing or if you've been leveling up, you don't necessarily have to die. That's one of the things that I think makes Final Fantasy's battle system better than battle systems in other RPGs. If I'm trying to beat a boss in Diablo or Neverwinter Nights, it's bascially an exercise in persistance. In Final Fantasy there's a bit more stategy involved. For just about every boss there's some weakness you can exploit. It's just a matter of finding out what that weakness is.

What I mostly liked about FF7, though, is the story because I often am more interested in a game's story than its actual gameplay. And until Final Fantasy X came along, FF7 was hands down the best story I had ever seen in a game. With the exception of one or two points where it slows down a little, I thought the pace of the story was pretty close to perfect, so I don't see what the problem is there. I especially liked how they took the time to really make the player care about what happens to the characters, both through the story and through the gameplay. That made it all the better when

Spoiler:

Aeris got killed off by Sephiroth. That's really what makes Sephiroth the greatest video game villain of all time. Because they make the player hate Sephiroth enough to really enjoy killing him.

So I'm not sure if that's really "objective," but that's what I like about FF7. Loved the story. Loved the gameplay. Great music. Cool graphics. Lots of replay value. What else can you ask for? Can't wait for Advent Children.

Of course, if I had to be totally objective, I probably wouldn't put at the very top, but it would definitely have a place in the top 10. On my own personal list of favorite games, it's a solid #2.

mag

[Starflux]

So it all boils down to the inevitable question of taste, doesn't it? Well there you have it, you like it because of the story. That's a valid reason, and stressing that I never said that one couldn't like FFVII, I still think it has aged poorly. That's not so much a question of taste; I'm tempted to blame it on nostalgia if you can't see how the game isn't exactly an example of joyous playability.

I'm not going into it a whole lot because I don't want this to be an endless foodfight, but it's still my opinion/suspicion that a frighteningly lot of people rate FFVII so highly because of the following factors:
1- it was the first real Japanese RPG they ever played
2- it was the first game they ever played featuring a somewhat deeper story than they had yet seen
3- They were young
In one word: nostalgia. That's no shame. But I'm just real sorry that I'll have to live my whole life surrounded by people who will NEVER let go of their positive prejudices towards FFVII, forever getting smacked because I see the game for what it is: just a game. Not the revelatory epiphany like it was for so many.

[Wormsie]

After doing a Google image search on "Final Fantasy Cloud" I'm suddenly becoming more and more interested in Japanese RPGs...

And that list is just as useless as any list - except the TOP20 advgames of all time, because it's such a joy to argue about it.

[Mattsius]

Originally Posted by Tanukitsune

I don't know if Jet Set Willy deserves nº7 but it sure does deserve to be in it! 8-)

I do believe most of the modern ones don't deserve to be in there... 2002 games? Retro? Oh PUH-LEAZE!

Jet Set Willy truly deserves a top ten position. I mean look at this:



You gotta love it.

Also, I agree that the new games (especially GTA:VC and Halo) don't deserve their high positions. But as other already have said, lists of this type tend to suck in one way or another.

[mag]

Originally Posted by Flux

So it all boils down to the inevitable question of taste, doesn't it? Well there you have it, you like it because of the story. That's a valid reason, and stressing that I never said that one couldn't like FFVII, I still think it has aged poorly. That's not so much a question of taste; I'm tempted to blame it on nostalgia if you can't see how the game isn't exactly an example of joyous playability.

I'm not going into it a whole lot because I don't want this to be an endless foodfight, but it's still my opinion/suspicion that a frighteningly lot of people rate FFVII so highly because of the following factors:
1- it was the first real Japanese RPG they ever played
2- it was the first game they ever played featuring a somewhat deeper story than they had yet seen
3- They were young
In one word: nostalgia. That's no shame. But I'm just real sorry that I'll have to live my whole life surrounded by people who will NEVER let go of their positive prejudices towards FFVII, forever getting smacked because I see the game for what it is: just a game. Not the revelatory epiphany like it was for so many.

Maybe it would help if you describe what you mean when you say that FF7 has aged poorly. Because to me it looks like it's aged pretty well. Sure, the graphics aren't as great by today's standards, but the gameplay is still about as good as any RPG you're likely to find today. Also, I'm not sure how much nostalgia is a factor in a game that was released in 1997. It's old, but it's not as though it's '80s old. I'm sure for many people it was their first Japanese RPG or the first game they played with a deep story. But to me it's more than that. Final Fantasy VII was the best Japanese RPG, and it had the best story. And I think that's why people love it so much. There's nothing in it that really changes gaming as we know it, but what it does, it does extremely well.

So I think it's mostly, as you say, a matter of taste.

mag

[JHousequake]

Originally Posted by SoccerDude28

Is this magazine online or is it a paper magazine? Any links?

Thanks

http://www.livepublishing.co.uk/retro/

Great mag, but just so you know it isn't meant to be a cheap throwback like the retro section in GameInc. borderlines from time to time, the detail in the articles are pretty intense.

[Stinger]

Originally Posted by Kolzig

All in all, top lists suck.

It's almost always based on one guys opinions or something like that.

Now I don't think that's very fair...