[SoccerDude28]

Ok let's see...
1- Microsoft copied the idea from SONY to have a console (just like they copied the idea behind every piece of software they have out there.)
2- XBOX is in no way superior than PS2
3- Bill gates has enough money to give every person in the world 10 bucks.

and now games are being developed exclusively for XBOX or for both PC and XBOX? DOOM 3??? HALF LIFE 2? KOTR 1 & 2? and the list is just increasing. The reason I'm writing this is Ok I hate microsoft. I think they are a monopoly so I went and bought a PS2 instead. Then I was looking at a gaming magazine yesterday and oh my god... what has just happened? Almost every game is releasing for XBOX and some really important ones aren't even releasing for PS2. Bill Gates wants Nintendo. Is the Evil empire going to strike again?

[tabacco]

Erm... regarding #1, if you're going to go that route, you'll have ot say that Sony also copied Nintendo, who copies Atari, etc.

#2 is plain wrong. Xbox has a much better graphics engine with superior anti-aliasing capabilities, the ability to generate DD5.1 Audio on the fly, and integrated network communications. How is that not better than PS2?

and #3 is irrelevent to the argument. Bill Gates' personal wealth has absolutely nothing to do with the Xbox' quality of design.

As for exclusive games, that's in no way specific to MS. Look at the Final Fantasy series games. Do you see those for Xbox or Gamecube? No. What about Mario? You don't even see that for the PC.

I suspect you're just so hung up on your "Microsoft = Bad" line of thought (I hear that way too often around Santa Cruz) that you're rationalizing your PS2 purchase in really stupid ways (namely, by coming up with a list of 'reasons' the Xbox is inferior).

[Marek]

I heard an Xbox recently killed 6 people.

[custard]

Depends on what you mean by 'superior' i guess.

The XBOX is technically the best of the current 3 consoles (see tabacco's post), while you could argue that the Playstation has the largest selection of games (Playstation and Playstation 2 games, along with the Playstation 2 being out earlier)

[SoccerDude28]

Originally Posted by tabacco

Erm... regarding #1, if you're going to go that route, you'll have ot say that Sony also copied Nintendo, who copies Atari, etc.

#2 is plain wrong. Xbox has a much better graphics engine with superior anti-aliasing capabilities, the ability to generate DD5.1 Audio on the fly, and integrated network communications. How is that not better than PS2?

and #3 is irrelevent to the argument. Bill Gates' personal wealth has absolutely nothing to do with the Xbox' quality of design.

As for exclusive games, that's in no way specific to MS. Look at the Final Fantasy series games. Do you see those for Xbox or Gamecube? No. What about Mario? You don't even see that for the PC.

I suspect you're just so hung up on your "Microsoft = Bad" line of thought (I hear that way too often around Santa Cruz) that you're rationalizing your PS2 purchase in really stupid ways (namely, by coming up with a list of 'reasons' the Xbox is inferior).

Ok I do hate Microsoft but for a reason. I think they limit the computer industry by destroying everyone in their way and I just fear that for gaming. Remember I did not say that PS2 is superior. I just said that and I quote:
"XBOX is in no way superior than PS2". And point 3 really has a point. The only reason why DOOM3 and KOTR2 and all those other games ship on XBOX exclusively is because of Bill Gates and MS's $$$$$$$$$$$$$$. Mario and Final fantasy are different than DOOM3 and HL2. The latter are PC Games to begin with and were not XBOX games. It was just to note the direction I see games going into.

[Fop]

It's still wrong. The XBox *is* superior to the PS2. And your point about the games is wrong too. Doom3 and KOTOR are not exclusive to the Xbox. They are both PC games also. Doom3 was developed by separately for the PC and Xbox (with strong interaction between the developers). Doom3 suffered in no way from this. Kotor did not suffer either.

[DomStLeger]

Microsoft isn't really a monopoly, not in the games market anyway. Theres a great deal of competition at the moment, and plenty of choice for the consumer (well choice not to buy Microsoft products anyway, not so sure theres much choice in terms of variety and quality but thats another issue...). Though personally I think the whole idea of a console (which predates the Playstation as you probably know Soccerdude) is for price fixing purposes as much as consumer convenience; but there is **** all that will be done about it. Games like KOTOR and Doom3 are still available for the much less controlled PC games market, and probably more cheaply if you're prepared to wait. So consumers do have a choice. I sincerely doubt there will be many games in the future that will be on one platform only, because in the end it isn't really worth it for developers, is it?

As for Microsoft generally being a monopoly, I'm not sure how true that is now. Ok, yes they are definately in a very dominent position and are a huge corporation. However there is now more competition than there has been in the recent past, and Microsoft faces an uncertain future. They're slowly losing ground in their bread and butter areas, which are also saturated now - there won't be much growth and there isn't much more you can do to Office to make it any more appealing. Thats why they moved into games in the first place.

I read at SierraGamers some time ago that Bill Gates once told Ken Williams of Sierra that the games market was a hit and miss market and not worth persuing. The real money was in products like MS Office, which you could upgrade every few years and so get a fairly constant stream of revenue. That was what sparked Sierras sudden interest in things like Sierra's arts software.

Now look at the situation - Bill Gates has had to turn to the hit and miss world of Gaming for growth, because his long term revenue streams, like office and windows, don't have such a rosey future anymore. Are people really going to need to upgrade their PCs every 2 years now? Technology has outpaced the needs of the users. If you buy Windows and Office now, you can reasonably expect to use them for a fairly long time before you upgrade them. That type of user isn't going to rush out and buy a 64bit system with the latest version of windows and the latest version of the Office suite just to continue doing what they've always been doing with no noticable benefits, are they? But gamers may; gamers will want the latest console as the technology is still bringing them new benefits and more entertainment.

So, no, I don't think they're a monoploy anymore, or an inherently "evil" company. They're desperate in a sense, they need to diversify to survive. I wouldn't worry about them dominating and control the market, theres too much competition for them to achieve that. At best they'll get a bigger share.

Thats how I see it anyway. I don't pretend to know much about this sort of thing however, and I may be completely wrong. But I personally wouldn't get worried about Microsoft, or as defensive as you seem to be. They're just a company and they're out to make money like all the others. They've just been better at it in the past.

[custard]

Sony pay money for the GTA games to be released on the Playstation 2 first, oh my, SONY IS TEH EVIL!1

[WontonGoodsoup]

Originally Posted by Marek

I heard an Xbox recently killed 6 people.

Probably because they were trying to move that massive piece of machinery around. I think xbox is awesome...just way to cumbersome.

Originally Posted by SoccerDude28

The only reason why DOOM3 and KOTR2 and all those other games ship on XBOX exclusively is because of Bill Gates and MS's $$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

If you have the power to do it. Do it. Is it really evil to want to be a contender in this consol war? Those games are Xbox and PC exclusive because Microsoft figured they could get some more sales doing that. Does that sound evil to you? Because it sound like any old company I've ever heard of. Get the most popular products for your place of business.
And by the way, would you rather Doom3 and KOTOR2 were on a different console? Could you actually imagine playing these games on a Gamecube or Gameboy?

Microsoft copied the idea from SONY to have a console (just like they copied the idea behind every piece of software they have out there.)

Oh my god... Microsoft realized that the gaming industry is very profitable. They could get money doing that. They didn't just say "Oh... well Sony is putting out a new console. We better put one out too because they're much better and much more powerfull than us"!

[SoccerDude28]

Well SONY doesn't have a reputation of putting companies out of business by any means possible. Netscape anybody? and I know DOOM 3 and HL2 and KOTR were released for PC. But how come they are not "PLANNED" to be released for PS2? Will they ever be? What will people who solely own a PS2 do? Will they break under the pressure that XBOX offers what PS2 doesn't and buy an XBOX? Not everyone who owns a PS2 owns an NVIDIA 6800 or the latest ATI to play PC Games.

Also GTA was released for XBOX to my knowledge. Remember, PC Owners most probably WILL NOT buy a DOOM 3 on XBOX to begin with because of the superior graphics of the PC. I'm talking about the bigger market of the console owners who will be tempted by the number of great titles popping up for XBOX and not PS2. I know I for sure am tempted in returning my PS2 and getting an XBOX. If you don't have a choice, you buy one thing and not another. Currently you do have a choice, but if the number of stellar games keeps skyrocketting for the XBOX, who will not want to own one?

[SoccerDude28]

Originally Posted by SamNMax

Could you actually imagine playing these games on a Gamecube or Gameboy?

I wouldn't but someone who owns a gamecube most probably would coz he wouldn't want to pay the 150 bucks to buy an XBOX.

[lakerz]

Doom 3 won't get ported over to the PS2 because that console wouldn't do the game justice. The graphics would be horrible. Granted, an uber PC trumps the X-Box in graphics, but the X-Box has the same advantage over the PS2.

I own a PS2 and a Gamecube, yet no X-Box. WIth the price drop, I'm sure I'll be picking one up before Christmas.

[ConcreteRancor]

I really don't understand why people hate Microsoft so much. I'm no Microsoft fanboy, but the basic truth is that Microsoft got to where it was by being the best. There were no government bailouts. What's wrong with simply following the basics of capitalism? It's all about competition, and Netscape just couldn't compete. Yeah, it's gotten to the point where it's tough to compete with Microsoft, but that doesn't mean that other companies are forbidden from TRYING. Sure, a lot of people like Linux, for example, and think it's better than Windows, and I'm not saying it's not if you know how to work it. But it's not nearly as accessible as Windows is and until it is, it won't find its way into the mainstream. But it's still COMPETING.

Microsoft going into games? Well, let's see. The gaming industry overall is making about as much money as the movie industry every year. More, if I remember correctly. If YOU were a software giant, wouldn't YOU want a piece of that pie?

Besides, the only consumers who ARE updating their computers every few years are the hardcore gamers who need to do it for games. My mom is still using our 6-year-old Dell Pentium 2 400Ghz and is perfectly happy with it. So since gamers are becoming a larger and larger market, why not make what they need the most? GAMES!

As far as Doom 3 for the X-Box goes, do you know how much they had to cut back on the game to get it to run on an X-Box, unarguably the most POWERFUL console on the market? And you think it could have run on a PS2?

Why do I think most people hate Microsoft? Jealousy, pure and simple. Bill Gates and his cohorts achieved the American Dream in a way that no one could ever imagine. People don't hate him, they want to BE him, and it pains them that they're not.

[Jake]

Sony is probably more maniacal / diabolical with their tight grip over what games do and don't come out for PS2 than Microsoft is for XBox. Sony is extremely hesitant to let too many "non-standard" games out for the PS2... that's one reason people stopped developing 2D games for the PS systems - Sony stopped approving them. Even from third party publishers.

Also as someone pointed out, Grand Theft Auto. Both GTA 3 and GTA:VC sat on the PS2 being cool, but clearly not everything they could be, for a year or more each, until DMA/Rockstar was allowed by Sony to release better looking / sounding versions for the PC and XBox.

How are practices like this different than Microsoft? To be honest I think one might be able to go as far as to say that out of MS and Sony, MS is the lesser of the two evils. They're at least pushing and protecting a moderately modern piece of hardware.

[ConcreteRancor]

"Moderately Modern" would be a great name for a rock band.

[Fop]

Originally Posted by ConcreteRancor

I really don't understand why people hate Microsoft so much. I'm no Microsoft fanboy, but the basic truth is that Microsoft got to where it was by being the best. There were no government bailouts. What's wrong with simply following the basics of capitalism? It's all about competition, and Netscape just couldn't compete. Yeah, it's gotten to the point where it's tough to compete with Microsoft, but that doesn't mean that other companies are forbidden from TRYING. Sure, a lot of people like Linux, for example, and think it's better than Windows, and I'm not saying it's not if you know how to work it. But it's not nearly as accessible as Windows is and until it is, it won't find its way into the mainstream. But it's still COMPETING.

Microsoft going into games? Well, let's see. The gaming industry overall is making about as much money as the movie industry every year. More, if I remember correctly. If YOU were a software giant, wouldn't YOU want a piece of that pie?

Besides, the only consumers who ARE updating their computers every few years are the hardcore gamers who need to do it for games. My mom is still using our 6-year-old Dell Pentium 2 400Ghz and is perfectly happy with it. So since gamers are becoming a larger and larger market, why not make what they need the most? GAMES!

As far as Doom 3 for the X-Box goes, do you know how much they had to cut back on the game to get it to run on an X-Box, unarguably the most POWERFUL console on the market? And you think it could have run on a PS2?

Why do I think most people hate Microsoft? Jealousy, pure and simple. Bill Gates and his cohorts achieved the American Dream in a way that no one could ever imagine. People don't hate him, they want to BE him, and it pains them that they're not.

AFAIK Microsoft has never been best at anything, apart from being the best at marketing their product. They certainly haven't been innovating at any time. If you compare the competing products and Microsoft's products of times, Microsoft's have generally been somewhat inferior (at least in technical qualities), but cheaper.
Oh, BTW, Linux is not hard to approach anymore. Distributions like Mandrake are easier to use and especially to install than XP. The myth lives strong, however.
The reasons I don't like Microsoft:
Due to their monopoly position in operating systems, I've had to suffer from them for a long time. Linux has developed enough to replace Windows for me now, but games are still mainly Win exclusive.
Also, they use dirty business practices to keep their monopoly.

[Fop]

Originally Posted by SoccerDude28

Well SONY doesn't have a reputation of putting companies out of business by any means possible. Netscape anybody? and I know DOOM 3 and HL2 and KOTR were released for PC. But how come they are not "PLANNED" to be released for PS2? Will they ever be? What will people who solely own a PS2 do? Will they break under the pressure that XBOX offers what PS2 doesn't and buy an XBOX? Not everyone who owns a PS2 owns an NVIDIA 6800 or the latest ATI to play PC Games.

It's very simple. Xbox, being the most powerful console at this time, is the only console with any hope of being powerful enough to run Doom3 or HL2. And even then, the graphics have to be seriously nerfed for them to work. We can't ask developers to only make games that run on old systems. We'd still be using 286s if we did.

[RaMa]

Originally Posted by Marek

I heard an Xbox recently killed 6 people.

Yup: http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/South/08/....ap/index.html

It's all the Xbox' fault! Damn that thing! Damn it to hell where it came from!

[tabacco]

Originally Posted by ConcreteRancor

I really don't understand why people hate Microsoft so much. I'm no Microsoft fanboy, but the basic truth is that Microsoft got to where it was by being the best. There were no government bailouts. What's wrong with simply following the basics of capitalism? It's all about competition, and Netscape just couldn't compete.

Let us not forget the example of Harbucks Coffee vs. Tweak's Coffee