"I kill you.": a rant on the matter of video game violence
Hey all, sorry to shamelessly pimp The Thumb over here, but I figure there are some AG forumers who might find this interesting. I've just published a rant concerning violent games partially inspired by the recent murder case that's being blamed on Rockstar's Manhunt. Check it out and let me know what you think (there's a link to a feedback thread at the end of the article).
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I think you're making a major mistake by saying that most, if not all, important video games of the last few years had violence as their main game mechanic and that we should take a look at the movie industry to improve ourselves.
As you stated, Beyond Good And Evil only relies on violence for about 30% of its gameplay. Knights Of The Old Republic relies on it for about 40%, in my opinion. Dialogue, for example, is just as important in KOTOR as combat. Other RPG's can almost be finished without any combat at all. KOTOR was considered by many (including me) to be by far the best video game of 2003. Now let's take a loot at the blockbuster movies. Here's the top 10 grossing movies of 2003, according to IMDB: 377,019,252 The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King (2003) 339,714,367 Finding Nemo (2003) 305,388,685 Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl (2003) 281,492,479 The Matrix Reloaded (2003) 242,589,580 Bruce Almighty (2003) 214,948,780 X2 (2003) 173,381,405 Elf (2003) 150,350,192 Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines (2003) 139,259,759 The Matrix Revolutions (2003) 138,614,544 Cheaper by the Dozen (2003) Of these movies LOTR, Pirates, Matrix, X2 and Terminator are at least as violent as KOTOR. Finding Nemi is actually a children's movie and shouldn't really be compared to normal videogames but to children video games, which are usually non-violent too. The remaining 3 movies are comedies. I'm saying all this just to point out that most movies are driven for a large part by violence, just like video games! Of course all movies stated above have a story and characters and they play a big role too, but the same goes for most games nowadays. The time that games relied SOLELY on violence has long gone. The sequel to Doom, which is a perfect example of a game that's 100% violence-based, actually has a good story and a lot of depth, simply because people don't buy games anymore without these elements. GTA has a splendid storyline too. Movies never lost their violent side or weakened it. The only real exception to the rule I can think of are comedies, and I'm sure the next Larry game will come pretty close to what we expect from a comedy game and looks rather non-violent. Every other genre has at least one murder or some other form of violence/abuse in its story to get everything going. Your statement that games should become less violent to become mainstream is simply not true. |
There's violence in Finding Nemo too!
--Erwin |
Well yeah, and if you think about it, comedies usually aren't completely non-violent either.
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Well Remi, interesting article. I can't say i have seen anything like that.
I understand what you are going into and i agree to some degree but i believe you are making it look bigger than it looks like. I mean, can you ask from platform games to not have enemies to jump onto? What can the char do, go and shake their hands? Or in rpg's, the whole point from the pen and paper times is to "kill and level up"... We can't ask from some games to not include "violence", as their mechanisms are not around that thing but they surely have it in them. Adventures on the other hand (as you said) can be totally unviolent. Yes you are right but your ideas for most of the games cannot happen. But yes there can be "other" games with no violence and more interaction dialogues and "facade" like ;) Oh and something else, sometimes its not the violence but the form that it takes in the game and how realistic it is. You know sometimes I felt like your article was balancing really dangerously towards censorship, not that you inclined it, but I just felt that :D |
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And as far as movies and games both relying on characters, story, and violence, yes this is true in some cases (clearly not all), but when have you seen a game that can compare with a good movie in terms of storytelling? I can think of maybe half a dozen examples in gaming and none of them truly come close to the best examples of storytelling I've seen in movies, with maybe one exception. Violence or no, we've got a long way to go before video games catch up with movies in almost any respect except immersiveness. Once (if) we reach that point, then using violence or not using violence will merely be a content choice rather than being a lynchpin of design. |
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Well, as long as it's not free violence, and it's fully motivated by the (good) story, I don't see what's wrong with it.
How would there be any more FPS games without it? Some of these games (Deus Ex) are story-driven, and even though violence is there, it helps create a real environment. There is a non-violent FPS where you shoot paint, but it's hardly a milestone in gaming history. Great games such as Max Payne wouldn't be possible without (moderate) violence. I think that gams do follow the example set by movies, but in a good way, by simulating a real world, and the real world is full of violence (wars, crime). Would you rather watch a cheesy romantic comedy than a good movie with some violence, I know I wouldn't. There are good violent movies and good non-violent movies, but they will always have to make both these kinds of movies. I think in this new millennium the movies haven't improved much. I noticed that the tendency is for superhero movies(Spiderman, X-men, Hulk,etc.) movies I personally find to be worthless. The movies of the nineties were better. I think that games are going in the good direction, constantly improving, some games have storylines better than today's movies, and that there will always be good violent games, as long as the violence isn't free. By the way, you used violence (verbal - the f word) in your (good) article. :) |
Clearly, I'm going to have to keep repeating myself. Like I said in the article, I love violent games. I just also want to see different things. I never called for nonviolent FPS games. Yes, violence is a part of life. However, many parts of life have nothing to do with violence.
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There's a link to the site about Facade you provided, http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4038606/ , Bringing Emotions to Video Games. Warren Spector, the creator of Deus Ex says "If I can get away with not putting a virtual gun — commercially speaking — in a game I would do it in a heartbeat.".
On another note, concerning this article, I think games that bring up emotions have already been made: Syberia, Grim Fandango and even Max Payne. But there has been no real freedom in a game so far, so it works out like a movie, emotionally speaking. Sure, I'd love to see a game where you can do everithing you want, make all the choices you want, good or bad, and an AI that can adapt to your will, but that game would have to include violence (what if your will is to shoot people ?). The article also states that games aren't that emotionally challenging because the game designers aren't good writers. Well, nowadays, every story-driven game has a real writer. Anachronox, for example, although a game whose idea was thought by Tom Hall while he was in the bathroom, was very well written, because Hall hired a real Hollywood writer, and a real director to expand his idea (the writer&director previously did a movie that got good reviews, Dean Quixote). Although the story is funny, if you read it to the end, there's also a lot of drama in it, and the way it's written and acted in the cutscenes (with facial animation - in 2001!!) suggests a very skilled crew, and a step forward in gaming. |
Wow, it seems like everyone and their grandma misunderstood the point Chris was putting forth.
On a related note: The DS is getting a surgery game where you cut open patients to get rid of parasites. Sure, it may qualify as violence, but considering you don't expose of the parasites in a manner of shooting them, rather you just surgically remove them. Via the stylus. :D Quote:
http://eg.nttpub.co.jp/news/image/20040805_08_02.jpg |
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I think i might be alone here, but does anyone else find when playing Deus Ex, that they choose to use the non lethal weapons (the stun prod and tranq darts) out of choice rather than necessity.
For example there are sequences when you have to fight UNATCO troops who were your best buddies earlier on in the game, now for some reason i find i'm uncomfortable killing them (even though they're just a load of polygons) so i just stun them or avoid them. Whether this is down to Warren Spector's skillfull writing or having the option between lethal and non lethal or mean being a big softy, i'm not sure. Though it would be interesting to see more games with the option of not killing people. Also wonders what a Silent Hill game would be like, without the combat and a greater emphasis on story and characters. |
Yeah, second time I played Deus Ex, I tried not to kill the Unatco and the NSF troops. Did enjoy capping the MIB though. And there was something about Jojo that made me crowbar kill him, when I could just stun him.
Deus Ex is the only FPS I played where you don't have to kill anyone. I'm sure Warren Spector meant for it to be this way, giving the player a choice, and raising the standards for a FPS. Unfortunately, Far Cry, DOOM 3 and HL2 will only make progress in the graphics, physics and sound, but the non-linear gameplay (and a story to match it) of Deus Ex won't be matched. |
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"I kill you." is now Ron Gilbert approved!
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Hey, cool. Nice of him not to mention how much you hate violence in games. :D
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