[Zygomaticus]

Hey all,

It's me.

Anyway, I've been debating with myself recently over buying one of two games: Neverwinter Nights and Baldur's Gate II. Both received excellent reviews and identical scores (9.2) from Gamespot, my personal most trusted gaming source (as cluttered as the website is; but that's another story). Given they both sound excellent, I was wondering if anyone out here could advice me as to which one to get.

Just so you know a little about my own gaming history: I'm relatively new to RPGs. The only RPG I've played so far is Knights of the Old Republic, and I absolutely loved it. If KOTOR was a woman, I'd ask her to marry me. But she isn't, *sigh* oh well. Anyway, anyone who has played KOTOR will, therefore, know something about my taste in RPG. That said, I'm always willing to try new things if they're worth trying.

And please, only one of the two. Given the current state of things, I could technically afford them both, but I don't want to get them both, I'm a one-game-at-a-time person. If, for example, NWN is the better game, then I'd want to play that first. And once I've played a better game, i couldn't possibly play the worser game, you see?

That said, I really would like the next game I play to be an RPG-like game. I want a long and immersive game. I played Knights of the Old Republic obsessively for 5 days, and finished it in that time. I want that feeling again (not necessarily for just 5 days - longer is okay).

So what do you have to say about this? Perhaps any other RPG? Diablo II? Morrowind?

EDIT: Would ya look at that? 500 smackeroony posts!

[Kingzjester]

Morrowind and both Gothic games, in order.

[Zygomaticus]

Originally Posted by Kingzjester

Morrowind and both Gothic games, in order.

Forgive my asking such a potentially base question: what are the Gothic games?

DOH! It's the name of a game!

[LeisureSuitedLooney]

Originally Posted by Kode

Just so you know a little about my own gaming history: I'm relatively new to RPGs. The only RPG I've played so far is Knights of the Old Republic, and I absolutely loved it.

I played KOTOR after NWN, and would suggest that if you enjoyed KOTOR, you'll get a lot of enjoyment and replay value out of NWN. They have a very similar feel, both in terms of how they use the DnD rules, and in how they feel open-ended. I have Baldur's Gate 2, but haven't been able to proceed very far in it, found it kind of frustrating.

[Jen]

Morrowind and the Gothics are maybe too hardcore for a new RPGer. Too hardcore for me, anyway; I've only played about 7 or 8 RPGs so far.

I have not played any Baldur's Gates yet. NWN is a fine game, not as good as KOTOR, though (few are). These are all by the same development house, Bioware, right? I think if you're looking for another wow! experience like KOTOR, you might like Anachronox instead.

[Jackal]

Originally Posted by Jen

I think if you're looking for another wow! experience like KOTOR, you might like Anachronox instead.

I was just about to say the same thing, so now I'll just repeat for emphasis. Anachronox would be a fabulous follow-up to KOTOR, and can be picked up for a song, too.

Vampire the Masquerade: Redemption is another to consider.

If you're determined to get one of the two you mentioned, then just know what you're getting into. Both are stat-heavy, complex games. BTW, the high scores for NWN are partly based on its multiplayer options. Some might disagree, but the single player doesn't match the high quality of BG2.

[LeChimp]

I think that NWN should be your next rpg, it has lots of modules you can download and it's a lot easier to follow than Balder's Gate 2. I like Balder's Gate 2 more though.

[BacardiJim]

Baldur's Gate is a solid introduction to the RPG experience. It serves as a good foundation against which to measure other games.


The main attraction of NWN isn't the writing, but rather the fact that online play offers you virtually unlimited worlds/scenarios in which to play. And unlike most other MMORPG's, online play is FREE.

However, if you are looking for an RPG with excellent writing, I'd recommend Planescape: Torment. It probably has the strongest writing of any RPG I've run across, as well as a unique setting/scenario.

If it is freedom of play you want, then Morrowind or any of the other Elder Scrolls games might be the way to go. (I haven't played Morrowind myself, but I played Daggerfall. Although the freeform exploration and gameplay style was nice, I despised the combat system.)

[Crunchy in milk]

Out of the two, Neverwinter Nights. Hands down its the easiest introduction to rpgs that use complex systems such as the D&D ruleset. At first it can seem a little daunting but if you play a straight melee character or a thief to start out, you can get the hang of the game before trying your hand at more complex characters like mages. The real fun is in making up your own combination class. NWN uses 3rd edition rules which make class and race choices so much easier than the extremely limiting and restrictive 2nd edition D&D ruleset used for baldur's gate II.

Coming off of KOTOR, NWN should seem quite familiar but with a bit more 'grunt'. You still only control a small party (you and one henchman), but the world is a lot more hostile (traps, locks and monsters) and requires more strategy than the very easy breezy KOTOR. The two expansions for NWN are must have since they add some great adventures to play through and still MORE class choices.

Baldur's gate 2 gets a lot of praise, but personally I enjoyed the original Baldur's gate far more. I put this almost entirely down to the fact that I only got around to playing BG2 AFTER I'd experienced NWN. After NWN, BG2 is like putting on shoes 2 sizes too small, I've never felt so restricted in race and class choices and for me, THE biggest appeal of RPGs is making the character YOU want to play, not be hamstrung from the word go.

NWN has the queue commands system you'll know and love from KOTOR, something I was chomping at the bit for every single moment I played Baldur's Gate 2. It also features (on the PC version) a toolset that if you spend an hour with, will let you do simple tasks like create your own items to further make your character unique, or if you get really involved with it make your own modules. About 3/4 of the way through NWN my first time I could not resist opening up the toolset and having a butchers at how everything worked. I was enjoying myself so much I made a little mansion I could load my character into in order to store souvenirs from the main quests.

[Ninja Dodo]

Gothic... hardcore??? Any more accessible and it would be Diablo!

Really, I think the Gothic series are the most easy to get into RPGs ever. In fact, they're really more like action-adventures than RPGs, if you compare them to your average D&D behemoth.

Morrowind is a good game, but don't play it for the combat or the characters, because the former is boring and the latter are virtually non-existant.

I played the demo of NeverWinter Nights and it has hands down some of the dumbest dialogue I've ever been unfortunate enough to encounter in a game. I also don't really like the interface much.

[Jayel]

Get Planescape: Torment and BGII. Don't bother with NWN. It sucks compared to the aforementioned two.

btw, I think Morrowind is a remarkable achievment due to its fantastic graphics, openendedness, and virtually unlimited hours of gameplay, but it's not as fun or polished as BG or P:T.

[Kingzjester]

Ok, enough about that guy; what would you offer me?

I hated Diablo and thought Baladur's Gate II was shitty-looking and annoying — I generally hate shitty underdeveloped characters (though I didn't mind Morrowind that much as it had spirit), and the 'kill the evil in the forest' kind of plots. When the boss lady in Diablo II asked me to do just that, namely 'kill the evil in the forest', I said, 'No, thanks! I'm going to the movies!'... It must be the pre-rendered isometric graphics that I hate, or something... Come to think of it, I never warmed up to Fallout... I don't think I would hate it as much if it were closer to the little people or if it were realtime, where I could see the world around me, or direct bird's view even... I still have to finish Gothic 2... I have it here and I have started to play it, but alas, my graphics card is not as well as I would need it to be to be able to experience it in its full glory... at low detail levels it looks worse than the first game...

I still have to play KOTOR, but aside from that, what older games are there for me?

[Jackal]

Your questions are pretty much the same, if you take out the NWN and BG2 references. You want a game like KOTOR, but not.

So... same answer as before - Anachronox and Vampire the Masquerade: Redemption. Neither is standard fantasy fare, neither uses the isometric viewpoint or buries players in RPG stat hell, and both are good games in their own right.

[Funktion]

A few suggestions:

-Arcanum: Of Steamworks & Magick Obscura (my all-time favourite RPG; lots of freedom, a wonderful setting (a world of magic, "suffering" an industrial revolution), lots of replay value, a wonderful soundtrack, ...); you can get this one very cheap.

-Neverwinter Nights (if you get this one, you should buy the 2 expansions as well, so you can use all classes, items, ...); this game is huge, and I really enjoyed it; there's also tons of mods available, so it's a game it will surely be a lot of time on your disk.

-Anachronox (a mixture of console-RPG, adventure game and action game; it's a wonderful game, done by the great Tom Hall (the creator of Commander Keen, ex-ID Software); if you enjoy the kind of humour from the Futurama tv series, you will love this game); as Arcanum, you can get it pretty cheap.

In my opinion, you should get Arcanum & Anachronox. I know you only want to buy one game, but you can get both for less $20 (I've seen them for less than $10 each), and they should keep you busy for a long time.

[ragnar]

I'd recommend the shareware RPG Geneforge from Spiderweb software. While it doesn't have very great graphics, it does feature one of the absolutely best stories I've seen in an RPG.

[Jen]

I keep meaning to try one of those Spiderweb games. Thanks for the reminder!

[Kolorabi]

Originally Posted by Kingzjester

Ok, enough about that guy; what would you offer me?

Planescape: Torment. It looks like shit, but it's a very deep and engaging game. I never liked the Baldur's Gate series, but I love Planescape: Torment.

Another alternative, and this would fit well for Kode too, is Arx Fatalis. I would describe it as a cross between Morrowind and Gothic, but all the action happens in a relatively small cave system.