[Ninja Dodo]

I don't think so. A lot of what we expect comes from Hollywood, and do you think Hollywood is realistic? If sound effects for example were made to sound exactly like the real thing they wouldn't be half as convincing as the beefed up overdone sounds that are normally used in games and movies. The same goes for physics in games. There are going to be situations where for gameplay or storytelling purposes it will better to bend the rules than to go for something that's scientifically accurate. Science can be really boring sometimes.

[Jayel]

yeah it'd be very boring if spaceships in scifi movies didn't make whooooooosh sounds.

[ConcreteRancor]

Sounds are different though. We want our sounds to be over the top, and sometimes over the top physics can be done well too. Just look at Halo. Anyone who has seen the Warthog Jump video knows that overdone physics can be fun.

But Halo is pretty tongue-in-cheek, and for a game with a more serious attitude, (e.g. Half-Life 2,) realistic physics are much more immersive. In that case, sounds are different. Regardless of the game's overall feel, the more overdone sounds are, the more immersive they can be. It's tough to get sounds that are TOO unbelievable unless you really work at it. Sure, guns may not sound exactly like we hear in the movies, but dammit, if I fire a gun in a videogame, I want it to be LOUD, and give out a report that I can FEEL. (Unless of course I have a silencer. ) THAT'S immersive.

[Ninja Dodo]

There's degrees of overdoing.

[ragnar]

Originally Posted by Ninja Dodo

I don't think so. A lot of what we expect comes from Hollywood, and do you think Hollywood is realistic?

No, Hollywood special effects aren't realistic and I vomit each time I see they're idiotic sense of physics. Like people running though glass. Each car that crashes, no matter how little goes in the air with a superhuge explosion (except if it is the car of the hero, because then it will never even stop working, no matter how much damage it takes).

If sound effects for example were made to sound exactly like the real thing they wouldn't be half as convincing as the beefed up overdone sounds that are normally used in games and movies. The same goes for physics in games. There are going to be situations where for gameplay or storytelling purposes it will better to bend the rules than to go for something that's scientifically accurate. Science can be really boring sometimes.

Not as boring as the fools in Hollywood trying to use the science. I say that if the storytellers actually bothered to find out how it really works (i.e. scientifically correct), then the story would benefit from it rather than the opposite. To say it is better for storytelling or gameplay purposes is to say that you are an ignorant and lazy fool.

[Ninja Dodo]

I think in many cases you a right, one should strive for accuracy... but there are and will always be situations where accuracy and believability are not one and the same thing.

If done properly, lazyness does not enter into it. People do bother to find out how things actually work and only then proceed to fudge a solution that they feel works best for the film/game. You have to know the rules to bend them.

[ragnar]

Originally Posted by Ninja Dodo

I think in many cases you a right, one should strive for accuracy... but there are and will always be situations where accuracy and believability are not one and the same thing.

Name one.

[Ninja Dodo]

Play any vaguely action oriented game from Mario to Half Life and you will find that you can change momentum in mid-air when jumping. This is totally unrealistic, but makes for far more pleasant gameplay.

Physics aside, when it comes to AI, it's often key to make things unrealistic. Warren Spector has been quoted as saying that they originally designed the opponents in Deus Ex as highly trained agents and skilled terrorists. This was a logical and realistic approach, but proved extremely boring and frustrating because it made the game impossibly difficult. So the AI was made unrealistically incompetent. The result was believable, yet entertaining.

Of course the AI was flawed in other ways making for strange behaviour at times, but the above example shows that sometimes realism and gameplay do not go hand in hand.

[ghost_recon]

what makes me angry about hollywood movies is action movies with
poorly thought trough gun scenes.
Imagine some chicken looking kid grab two m16a2,run and shoot at same time
and get all of his shots in.And then of course he jumps up and shoots it mid air.Me and my CS-loving friends had a conversation about this,how in
CS you can jump around the corner,zoom in with .50 sniper rifle while mid-air,land on your feet and headshot someone a mile away...
I got a pellet sniper rifle home...I sit down...I work on my breathing etc,
it still wavers...These guys can jump off a high scraper and shoot someone in
mid-air with PERFECT accuracy...
Max payne stuff where you can jump-sideways,and dont break your
ribs...Those lame scenes where a guy shoots in wooden fence and bullet gets
stuck...Or wolfenstein 2,Where monsters have shields that deflect your bullets right back at you...When most ricochets occur at around 1-30 degrees
...not 90...
Military saying "over and out" on TV...list goes on forever.

[Steven]

Originally Posted by Ninja Dodo

Play any vaguely action oriented game from Mario to Half Life and you will find that you can change momentum in mid-air when jumping. This is totally unrealistic, but makes for far more pleasant gameplay.

Physics aside, when it comes to AI, it's often key to make things unrealistic. Warren Spector has been quoted as saying that they originally designed the opponents in Deus Ex as highly trained agents and skilled terrorists. This was a logical and realistic approach, but proved extremely boring and frustrating because it made the game impossibly difficult. So the AI was made unrealistically incompetent. The result was believable, yet entertaining.

Of course the AI was flawed in other ways making for strange behaviour at times, but the above example shows that sometimes realism and gameplay do not go hand in hand.

You were first talking about believability. You now changed the subject to pleasantness. The jumping you describe may be pleasant to some, but it is not believable.

[jjacob]

Originally Posted by ghost_recon

what makes me angry about hollywood movies is action movies with poorly thought trough gun scenes (...) list goes on forever.

Now that you mention it, that is the one thing about hollywood that I really can't stand.

..

[Marek]

Originally Posted by ghost_recon

Military saying "over and out" on TV...list goes on forever.

Excuse my ignorance, but they don't actually say that?

Here's my one thing I hate about Hollywood movies. When people are on the phone, they usually don't bother to say goodbye. They just disconnect without saying anything. WHY?!

[ghost_recon]

Originally Posted by Marek

Excuse my ignorance, but they don't actually say that?

If at the end of sentence on radio you said Over,that means you ask them
to reply to you,example:
Mike one this is kilo niner, we are echo sector,advise on further map instructions,OVER.

If at the end of sentence on radio you said Out,That means you ask them
NOT to reply,example:
Bravo six this is Delta team,we got package delivered,proceeding to
Lima Zulu,OUT

So saying "over and out" is like saying "OK reply and dont reply".Which does not make much sense.

On phone...Last thing before hanging up is usually "you've got it!" ," ok,gotcha" ,"Cya there","Talk to ya later".

Saying bye on the phone is usually very formal,say interview or boss.

[Ninja Dodo]

I think in games the line between believing and enjoying is blurred if existant.

[Steven]

I suppose that might be the case for some people. But why do you point to games specifically. Isn't the case the same in real life? For example, many people believe in the existance of a deity because it makes them happy. Their belief is neither proven nor reasonable, yet they continue to believe it.

[Jackal]

I don't really follow your point, Steven. People don't believe in a deity knowing it to be false, simply because it makes them happy. People ARE willing to suspend disbelief in games (or movies and other forms of entertainment).

[Steven]

True.

[ConcreteRancor]

Originally Posted by ghost_recon

Saying bye on the phone is usually very formal,say interview or boss.

I always say bye at the end of a phone conversation. It's the equivalent of saying "out".

[Mattsius]

Originally Posted by ConcreteRancor

I always say bye at the end of a phone conversation. It's the equivalent of saying "out".

So do I. I don't think it's formal at all, rather a question of etiquette.