TES V Skyrim - Page 3 - Adventure Forums
You are viewing an archived version of the site which is no longer maintained.
Go to the current live site or the Adventure Gamers forums
Adventure Gamers



 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 11-17-2011, 01:48 AM   #41
Senior Automaton
 
Oscar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 898
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monolith View Post
You failed to mention that lockpicking in skyrim isn't that basic. There are various skill levels of lockpicking. Depending on the way your stats are setup, you can attempt a harder level, but the chance of your lockpick breaking depends on your skill stats. On top of that, other sub skills gained through branches will help increase the dead zone in which the knob will start to turn. It all depends on your skills/stats.
That's what I said, isn't it? The big difference is that in skyrim it's possible to crack an "expert" level lock without any skill in lockpicking at all. While in Game A that would be impossible. That is something that depends totally on the skill of the gamer, not the in-game character. In other words, your "role" as gamer when opening locks is greater than your "role" as the character you are playing.

Quote:
That chance of lockpick breaking is exactly if not a less in your face version of the "Success" and "Fail" method of your Game A. Just with actually content.
Why? How?

Quote:
Sure it may not be a "Success" or "Fail" or one of your ideas of a Black & White game design. Though my point still stands. Are you arguing that Skyrim isn't a pen & paper style game? Because that doesn't necessarily mean "Hardcore" or not.
No, I'm not arguing that - that would be silly. What I was trying to get at is simply that there is less role-playing in Skyrim, which makes it less "hardcore". Here's why:

In example A, the person opening the lock is the character in the game. If your character doesn't have the ability to open the lock, nothing can be done.

In example B, the person opening the lock is, by and large, the person sitting in front of the computer (even though, as you said, gaining skill can make that a little easier).

It should be obvious that in B you are playing more as 'you' than your in-game character, like in action games. Hence, less "role-playing".
Oscar is offline  
Old 11-17-2011, 03:00 AM   #42
Senior Member
 
Schneckchen ^.^'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 248
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monolith View Post
Does it? Does COD have Quests?
COD has plenty of quests. "Kill all the dudes in this place", "go to that spot", etc. That's basically the same objectives you get in Skyrim just a little sugarcoated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monolith View Post
Does it have a vast (possibly) open playable world?
GTA does. Is GTA an RPG now too? Vast open worlds aren't a prerequisite of RPGs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monolith View Post
Does it have dynamic/non-linear conversation mechanics?
I wouldn't call Skyrim's conversations nonlinear or dynamic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monolith View Post
Is damage calculated based on dice rolls or chance based on your skills?
Bullet trajectories can be pretty random especially when fired from the hip so it is pretty much a roll of the die whether you hit or miss. However you also have to manually aim so it is skill based as well. Just like Skyrim.

Conclusion: CoD = Hardcore RPG. lol.
Schneckchen ^.^ is offline  
Old 11-17-2011, 10:39 AM   #43
handsome
 
TiAgUh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Portugal
Posts: 1,135
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oscar View Post
Haven't played Fallout 3 but doesn't VATS simplify combat?
It beautifies combat!

________

Lookie here:

Quote:
Meet Dovahkiin: "Dragonborn" Baby

Parents name their kid after Skyrim - win lifetime supply of Bethesda games.

Name:  Ál.png
Views: 246
Size:  181.3 KB
(the full article - http://uk.games.ign.com/articles/121/1212765p1.html)

That armor seems comfy.
TiAgUh is offline  
Old 11-17-2011, 12:43 PM   #44
Senior Member
 
Monolith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 974
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schneckchen ^.^ View Post
COD has plenty of quests. "Kill all the dudes in this place", "go to that spot", etc. That's basically the same objectives you get in Skyrim just a little sugarcoated.GTA does. Is GTA an RPG now too? Vast open worlds aren't a prerequisite of RPGs.I wouldn't call Skyrim's conversations nonlinear or dynamic.Bullet trajectories can be pretty random especially when fired from the hip so it is pretty much a roll of the die whether you hit or miss. However you also have to manually aim so it is skill based as well. Just like Skyrim.

Conclusion: CoD = Hardcore RPG. lol.
I'm done with your limited reasoning. First you're saying my reasoning makes CoD a Hardcore RPG, yet you fail to encompass all my reasonings and just attack certain points, not to mention you change gaming target to GTA. If you're going to attack my reasoning, you have to stick to one game because if you compare eat feature to every game, then any game can be compared to any other game.

Hey, in Gears 3 you can kick a football. Hey its a sports game! Thats your reasoning....so what else makes a sports game a sports game? You fail to see that.

If you're going to tell me, my idea of calling Skyrim a game that can be a Hardcore RPG, just like that Gears 3 sports argument, then tell me why Skyrim isn't an Hardcore RPG. Because all i'm seeing is "Its not a hardcore RPG because it just isn't" or the vary limited brand of thinking "It doesn't have a success or fail system. The player has too much control over what happens".

Though I think TiAgUh is right. There is a difference between modern RPG's and pen & paper RPG's. Of course, but it doesn't change the fact that Hardcore is how strict it is to the RPG elements, which Elder Scroll series has been good about. Sure the old Elder Scroll games were more Pen & Paper than the last three games, but how does evolution of interaction make this game less so of a Hardcore RPG?

Now its your turn to explain to me why Skyrim isn't a hardcore RPG.

(I don't know why I get offended off of stupid little shit. I'm sorry, i've been like this for some time. I need to stop. I just don't know how I can fix myself. :/)
__________________
"Oggi abbiamo erediteranno la terra! Domani, ci distruggiamo!" -S. B. Newsom

http://www.sbnewsom.com/

Last edited by Monolith; 11-17-2011 at 01:22 PM.
Monolith is offline  
Old 11-17-2011, 01:46 PM   #45
Senior Member
 
Schneckchen ^.^'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 248
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monolith View Post
Now its your turn to explain to me why Skyrim isn't a hardcore RPG.
Play Baldur's Gate. Skyrim is an action game with some RPG elements sprinkled on top.
Schneckchen ^.^ is offline  
Old 11-17-2011, 01:54 PM   #46
Senior Member
 
Monolith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 974
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schneckchen ^.^ View Post
Play Baldur's Gate. Skyrim is an action game with some RPG elements sprinkled on top.
Specifics please. I've played all of Bioware's games. The main difference is controlling a party and bloated/pen & paper stats system, and dynamic quests/missions.
__________________
"Oggi abbiamo erediteranno la terra! Domani, ci distruggiamo!" -S. B. Newsom

http://www.sbnewsom.com/
Monolith is offline  
Old 11-17-2011, 02:17 PM   #47
In an evening of July...
 
kuze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Germany
Posts: 1,215
Default

Isn't the whole argument pointless? Skyrim is an action RPG, while all the other things mentioned are CRPGs. "Hardcore RPG" is a very vague term, which offers a lot of room to interpretation.

I personally prefer the term "fun RPG", and Skyrim is definitely that, even though it has a lot of shortcomings like an outdated looking engine and horrible interface on the PC.
kuze is offline  
Old 11-17-2011, 02:21 PM   #48
Senior Member
 
Monolith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 974
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kuze View Post
Isn't the whole argument pointless? Skyrim is an action RPG, while all the other things mentioned are CRPGs. "Hardcore RPG" is a very vague term, which offers a lot of room to interpretation.

I personally prefer the term "fun RPG", and Skyrim is definitely that, even though it has a lot of shortcomings like an outdated looking engine and horrible interface on the PC.
Agreed. I'm hoping by the time I buy the pc version there will be a UI mod that'll fix that, plus graphical enhancements like "Every casts shadows" and maybe Ambient Occlusion.

Did anyone ever play New Vegas on hardcore mode?

BTW I can't wait to see where the DLC's will lead us, especially since they said they are much bigger and a lot better than all the previous DLCs for their games.

Anyways sorry for being an obnoxious mess. Like I said, I don't know why I get offended off of stupid little shit. I'm sorry, i've been like this for some time. I need to stop. I just don't know how I can fix myself. :/
__________________
"Oggi abbiamo erediteranno la terra! Domani, ci distruggiamo!" -S. B. Newsom

http://www.sbnewsom.com/
Monolith is offline  
Old 11-17-2011, 02:22 PM   #49
handsome
 
TiAgUh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Portugal
Posts: 1,135
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schneckchen ^.^ View Post
Play Baldur's Gate. Skyrim is an action game with some RPG elements sprinkled on top.
Well, I remember BG: Dark Alliance for the PS2 being pretty much an isometric beat-em up

Btw mr. Monolith, you don't need any kind of fixing man, you're beautiful no matter what they say and words can't bring you down, oh no!
TiAgUh is offline  
Old 11-17-2011, 02:27 PM   #50
Senior Member
 
Monolith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 974
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TiAgUh View Post
Well, I remember BG: Dark Alliance for the PS2 being pretty much an isometric beat-em up

Btw mr. Monolith, you don't need any kind of fixing man, you're beautiful no matter what they say and words can't bring you down, oh no!
haha, nah, if i'm unpleasant I can at least better myself.

Also, remember Fallout Tactics? That was a unique change to the game mechanics. Really liked it.
__________________
"Oggi abbiamo erediteranno la terra! Domani, ci distruggiamo!" -S. B. Newsom

http://www.sbnewsom.com/
Monolith is offline  
Old 11-17-2011, 02:54 PM   #51
Filmfreak
 
TimovieMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Belgium
Posts: 1,049
Default

I'm not too big a fan of action RPGs (says the guy who thinks Mass Effect 2 is one of the best games ever), but I love me a story- and dialogue-driven game where the action is either easy or minimal. Planescape: Torment for instance was pure genius...

Having said that, is there any chance I might enjoy Skyrim?
If so, should I start with Oblivion first? Or even Morrowind? (I'm not going back further than that, though)
__________________
Currently playing: Again, Escape from Monkey Island (replay), King's Quest VI: Heir Today, Gone Tomorrow
Next in line: King's Quest VII: The Princeless Bride, Gabriel Knight: Sins of the Fathers, The Last Express, Time Hollow
Recently finished: King's Quest V: Absence Makes the Heart Go Yonder, The Curse of Monkey Island (replay), The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion (abandoned), Mass Effect 3
TimovieMan is offline  
Old 11-17-2011, 03:00 PM   #52
Senior Member
 
Monolith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 974
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimovieMan View Post
I'm not too big a fan of action RPGs (says the guy who thinks Mass Effect 2 is one of the best games ever), but I love me a story- and dialogue-driven game where the action is either easy or minimal. Planescape: Torment for instance was pure genius...

Having said that, is there any chance I might enjoy Skyrim?
If so, should I start with Oblivion first? Or even Morrowind? (I'm not going back further than that, though)
I always found Bioware games much different than Bethesda RPG's. Its REALLY hard to say. Elder Scroll games are more world and classic RPG oriented than a lot of modern Bioware games.

Though I would die for a new Planescape Torment game. That game was indeed genius!
__________________
"Oggi abbiamo erediteranno la terra! Domani, ci distruggiamo!" -S. B. Newsom

http://www.sbnewsom.com/
Monolith is offline  
Old 11-17-2011, 03:26 PM   #53
Senior Member
 
Schneckchen ^.^'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 248
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimovieMan View Post
but I love me a story- and dialogue-driven game where the action is either easy or minimal. Planescape: Torment for instance was pure genius...

Having said that, is there any chance I might enjoy Skyrim?
If so, should I start with Oblivion first? Or even Morrowind? (I'm not going back further than that, though)
I really wanted to like Planescape... I loved the story and atmosphere but it was just way too hard for me so I sadly never got very far.

You should definitely check out Skyrim. The atmosphere is really great and the action is easy enough. The main storyline isn't that amazing but there are (hundreds?) of side quests you can also do to keep you busy for hundreds of hours. I love just "living" in Bethesda's worlds.

If you just wanna try and see if you like the Bethesda style of game, I would go with Oblivion first though just because it's on sale on Steam right now for like 5 bucks so there's not that much can go wrong if you don't like it.

Morrowind was good too but Oblivion and Skyrim hold your hand a lot more (which is good in my opinion cause otherwise you'll just have to look stuff up online.)
Schneckchen ^.^ is offline  
Old 11-18-2011, 01:45 AM   #54
Filmfreak
 
TimovieMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Belgium
Posts: 1,049
Default

Well, I have played Fallout 3, and that's a Bethesda game if I'm not mistaken.

I loved the openness of it all, and I really loved all the side quests (I'm easily sidetracked ), but the main quest was awful in that game. And I thought the game was REALLY difficult until I got to about level 10-12. You basically had to stick to the main road because any amount of roaming when at a low level would pit you against an enemy you couldn't handle.

How does Fallout 3 compare to Oblivion and Skyrim?
Apart from the completely different setting, of course...
__________________
Currently playing: Again, Escape from Monkey Island (replay), King's Quest VI: Heir Today, Gone Tomorrow
Next in line: King's Quest VII: The Princeless Bride, Gabriel Knight: Sins of the Fathers, The Last Express, Time Hollow
Recently finished: King's Quest V: Absence Makes the Heart Go Yonder, The Curse of Monkey Island (replay), The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion (abandoned), Mass Effect 3
TimovieMan is offline  
Old 11-18-2011, 01:56 AM   #55
Filmfreak
 
TimovieMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Belgium
Posts: 1,049
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schneckchen ^.^ View Post
Morrowind was good too but Oblivion and Skyrim hold your hand a lot more (which is good in my opinion cause otherwise you'll just have to look stuff up online.)
Meh, I look things up in advance anyway. I'm kind of a min/max-er, and instead of replaying 8-12 hours worth of RPG, I tend to look for good starting skills/attributes online, so I get a decent start...
Not that it matters, because I tend to put the games at a lower difficulty anyway, because I'm always more interested in the story than in the combat...
__________________
Currently playing: Again, Escape from Monkey Island (replay), King's Quest VI: Heir Today, Gone Tomorrow
Next in line: King's Quest VII: The Princeless Bride, Gabriel Knight: Sins of the Fathers, The Last Express, Time Hollow
Recently finished: King's Quest V: Absence Makes the Heart Go Yonder, The Curse of Monkey Island (replay), The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion (abandoned), Mass Effect 3
TimovieMan is offline  
Old 11-18-2011, 02:14 AM   #56
In an evening of July...
 
kuze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Germany
Posts: 1,215
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimovieMan View Post
How does Fallout 3 compare to Oblivion and Skyrim?
Well, Oblivion is basically Fallout 3 with swords.
kuze is offline  
Old 11-18-2011, 10:41 AM   #57
handsome
 
TiAgUh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Portugal
Posts: 1,135
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schneckchen ^.^ View Post
I really wanted to like Planescape... I loved the story and atmosphere but it was just way too hard for me so I sadly never got very far.
If by hard you mean "f-ing difficult the get past the excruciating gameplay" then I'm with cha bud. Saying it's overrated is a huge understatement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimovieMan View Post
I loved the openness of it all, and I really loved all the side quests (I'm easily sidetracked ), (...)
Did you also burned the tree ?
TiAgUh is offline  
Old 11-19-2011, 03:58 AM   #58
Senior Member
 
AndreaDraco83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Italy
Posts: 2,684
Send a message via MSN to AndreaDraco83
Default

Well, since I already play pen-and-paper RPGs with my boyfriend and our friends once a week, I really don't care if a computer game, be it Skyrim or Dragon Age, is capable of replicating the table-top dynamics verbatim. Nor I care if such a game can be defined "hardcore role-playing" or not. What is that supposed to mean? A stats-full, rule-heavy game ŗ la Dungeons & Dragons? If so, I don't like it! To me, the greatest RPGs are the ones who give the player every instrument to roleplay his character to the fullest and the storyteller every tool to create a spellbinding story, without splitting hairs every two minutes about hundreds of rules and sub-rules. Yes, I'm a World of Darkness buff

Anyway, when I play a TES game, all I want is a deep, vivid, realistic world to explore in all its nooks and crannies; an engaging main story enriched by dozens and dozens of side quests; multiple factions to join and the possibility to make, from time to time, some choices to shape who my character is. And, for now, Skyrim is delivering this in spades.
__________________
Top Ten Adventures: Gabriel Knight Series, King's Quest VI, Conquests of the Longbow, Quest for Glory II, Police Quest III, Gold Rush!, Leisure Suit Larry III, Under a Killing Moon, Conquests of Camelot, Freddy Pharkas Frontier Pharmacist.

Now Playing: Neverwinter Nights, Professor Layton and the Diabolical Box
AndreaDraco83 is offline  
Old 11-19-2011, 08:06 AM   #59
Stalker of Britain
 
Fantasysci5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Missouri, US
Posts: 4,535
Default

I haven't played this, but I've been watching my roommate play it...and it looks like it's a lot of grey and brown. Where's the color?!
__________________
"And everyone's favourite anglophile, Fantasy!"-Intense
Favorite Adventure Games-Lost Crown/Dark Fall 1&2, Longest Journey games, Myst games, Barrow Hill
Favorite Other Games-King's Bounty, Sims 2, Fable, Disciples 2 Gold
Currently Playing-Trine 2
Games I Want-Kings Bounty: Warriors of the North!!!, Asylum, Last Crown, Braken Tor, Testament of Sherlock Holmes
Fantasysci5 is offline  
Old 11-19-2011, 08:46 AM   #60
Senior Member
 
Jannik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Denmark
Posts: 154
Default

I think you should apologize to grey and brown for insinuating that they are not colors, you might have hurt their feelings!

On a more serious note, I think the game is beautiful so far (I've played about 20 hours, mostly following the story). It's clearly inspired by Nordic countries during early medieval times, and the atmosphere seems spot on. Most of the colors are inspired by winter and fall, with some green thrown in, but it works, and looks very good. And there are actually flowers here and there, mostly blue and white so far. So the colors are mostly brown, grey, white and green.

One or two areas with more colors would perhaps benefit the game, but on the other hand, I think it's commendable that Bethesda went so far in creating a melancholic and unique atmosphere. Actually it doesn't feel that melancholic all the time, because the world is quite lively in places.

So far I'm really enjoying the game. The biggest flaw, in my opinion, is that while the world itself is fantastic, the rest of the game is "just" very solid. Neither the story, the characters or the gameplay have brought any "big moments" so far.

Last edited by Jannik; 11-19-2011 at 02:44 PM.
Jannik is offline  
 



Thread Tools

 


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.