[SamuelGordon]

I selled the game and bought Planescape torment (GOG), best decision.EVER!

"Come on cutter get in, it's cold out here","Come on cutter, my girls will make you FEEL like a MAN!" This THIS, is better than every cheesy romance option ever made! From lame sex in the Witcher,Dragon Age,to well everything!. I'm just walking in the neighbourhood and you hear this guy yelling these phrases! Hahaha LMAO, and the atmosphere, the characters, the QUESTS! (you actually have to think! and it has purpose to the story, background, development,etc).

I'm only 15 hours in and it's the best rpg i've played in many many years! It probably is the best western rpg ever made, and i'm gonna enjoy every minute of it.XD

As for Dragon Age 2, maybe i overreacted because i had such high hopes BUT it served a greater purpose..it gave me Planescape Torment

[haptsonir]

^ Rock and roll.

[maladroid]

I actually liked most changes: the interface, inventory, talent tree structure were more of an improvement for me. The story of DA II is also definitely more interesting than the generic epic tale of Origins, although that one had some cool side-stories (the Dalish storyline, the Circle, Loghain etc.) that made it quite memorable as a whole.

I feel the game is receiving some undeserved bashing in general, especially by people who blame it for being too action-y based on the demo or the way battles unfolds on the low difficulty settings. I played on Hard (Origins was equally tough on Normal for me) and enjoyed it more, especially the story and the combat which is just as tactical but more responsive than it was in Origins. Also, the content is still there for those who wish to dig for it, it just isn't as original this time around since most of the lore and codex entries existed already. This was also an issue with the D&D games that came after Baldur's Gate, though.

Lastly:

Spoiler:

The "Al Paccino" bit with Varric was priceless, wish they used the "framed narrative" technique for more similar parts

[D.C.]

Finally got around to playing Dragon Age 2 last week. I liked it a whole lot, but if you asked me in the first five or six hours my impressions would've been very different. Took me a surprisingly long time to get immersed in the story. It felt like it was lacking a little direction initially. The more I played, the more that changed though. I liked seeing the world of Dragon Age through a smaller scale story and different perspective, but I missed the epic feel and varied locales of the first game. (Didn't help that they recycled a lot of the environments. ) I was pretty damn disappointed with the general lack of polish and the feeling that it was rushed, though.

[Figment]

I almost cried and almost quit after the first half hour because the difference between DA2 and the first seemed so unpleasantly drastic. My favourite part of the first game was the multiple backstories, the way it contained such multitudes, the breadth of the world... it felt directed, but also highly mutable. I was deeply involved in DA:O in a way that I rarely am with games--I even replayed it, something that I almost never do!

So the shock of difference was stark. I hated how it just tossed me in with no chance to get to know my character; my initial reaction was that the sequel had none of the atmosphere of the first. Happily, my boyfriend, who had already started and was farther along, made me pick it up again, and I'm glad he did. About halfway through now and enjoying it. It's a different kind of story, told on entirely different terms than DAO was; as soon as I accepted that I got to liking it. My only large gripe is the recycling of places. It feels like grinding--which I hate--when all of your quests seem to take place in the same identical cave as the last ten did. Luckily, the companions are as interesting and charming as ever, and their in-talking helps spice up the boring backgrounds. I love Merrill and Varric!

Now that I've written about the game I feel the need to turn it on again and play s'more.

[aries323]

Mike Laidlaw, the game's lead designer did mention that David Gaider, the Lead Writer has said that 'they wanted to kick over the sandcastle.' source:
http://www.1up.com/features/dragon-a...pager.offset=0

And specifically, what we wanted to do was, as lead writer David Gaider comments, "kick over the sandcastle." The endstate of Origins was that the world had been saved: "good job, we stopped the Blight, and we're good now, right? Everything good, right?"

I think this is really bold and courageous decision, to once in a while kick over the sandcastle one, or in this case, Bioware has built.

I have tried to ponder over the story so far (as I've heard it from varius sources). And to me, it seems, that if you take away the combat, you'll have an - adventure game. Apparently (like in adventure games) the ending is almost the same, we follow a voiced protagonist during 7-10 years of his life, just trying to get by. And see events unfold before our very eyes.

And the strengths in this game are apparently the storytelling, the characters and the dialogues. And the story itself, although even David Gaider himself sees room for improvement:

From my perspective, I think there's a lot to work on and improve, and certainly we've gotten a lot of criticism from some corners-- much of it deserved, some of it not. We're perfectly capable of criticizing our own work as well (there's not a game I've put out that I'm not painfully aware of the flaws in prior to it shipping), but it's nice to also see that there were parts that some people really enjoyed as well. That is also good to learn from.
So thank you. Interesting read.

As for the re-used areas, each part of Kirkwall has both a day and night map, a result of people wanting a day and night cycle. And now they've gotten one (sort of) and people still complain.

And yes, PS: Torment is amazing...

[Crunchy in milk]

I finally got around to finishing it all the way through with at least one character. I've tried all the classes and replayed act I with them, maybe 6 times~ Act 2 I've completed twice but Act 3, just once.

My end game mood is that I had fun, but I had to work at it.

There were some enjoyable improvements in DA2 but the overwhelming number of lazy, loose threads, bugs and filler bits are deserved criticism and I can see why people will totally miss the few things they might otherwise have enjoyed between Origins and DA2, for all the other bits they'd have to wade through.

Despite all the guff out there about balanced combat and difficulty matters, its just that. Guff. There are some terribly imbalanced fights based on your class and just some terribly imbalanced fights no matter what you're playing. The classes are anything but balanced and you will find the game a complete cakewalk depending your build as much as difficulty setting. Rangers are obscenely godly even without the game's not so subtle encouragement to kite.

By way of example, I took down the High Dragon (hardest dragon in the game) with my team, It was a struggle but two of us where left standing at the end after a long draw out battle, heavy potion use and manual hand holding.

Immediately after, we entered a nearby cave to do an optional side quest for one of the companions that ends in a fight with a monstrous spider which proceeded to effortlessly two shot every member of my party before focusing on my tank and batting it against the cave wall 4 or 5 times before they where dead. Stun locking, Dragon Age 2's equivalent of spawn camping.

The best defense the game offers against knockDOWN lasts 5 seconds. Against a spider with greater strength than a High Dragon and a hit pool olympic swimmers couldn't finish a lap in. I didn't feel bad at all reloading and kiting to the staircase to kill it, risk free. If there's no effort made to make an encounter interesting why should I spend effort trying to defeat it.

In its current state, I wouldn't rush to recommend DA2 to anyone. It needs some serious patching to reach even 'worth a few lazy hours' kind of investment. I'm referring mostly to core mechanic bugs that even effect those who just play for the dialogue/story. The Act 3 bug that spoils and ruins Merrill's entire plot is criminal.

EA is determined that patches will be cross platform so PC users have to wait for EA/Sony certification before a patch can be released. Weeks after it passes internal testing.

[Burns11]

Originally Posted by aries323

As for the re-used areas, each part of Kirkwall has both a day and night map, a result of people wanting a day and night cycle. And now they've gotten one (sort of) and people still complain.

Even though I liked the game a lot, I have to disagree here. the problem isn't that the map was used in a day/night cycle, the problem was that every cave had the same map, every hightown mansion (save for your own) had the exact same map, every darktown combat area had the same map, etc.

[rayvio]

I started to throw together a short parody of what Origins would've been like if it used DA2s design ideas on the BioWare forum (to their credit BioWare don't lock or delete parodies or constructive criticisms) but due to surprising amounts of positive feedback I kept writing more, 'tis here if anyone fancies a read. it makes fun of a few flaws and common criticisms in Origins as well

oh and...

nice reference

[aries323]

I had fun in DA:Origins as well, but only after the 6-8-10 hours of going through the Dalish Elf Origin. After playing for about 2 hours in DA:O, I just wanted to get to Ostagar and get on with the story...

On the Bioware forums, people are now complaining that the compromise options have been taking away from them. And I clearly remember people complaining about the compromise options in DA: Origins (examples are the elves and the werewolves and the circle quest). People got what they wanted, and they still complain...

[rayvio]

well different people want different things, so if you give one lot what they want then the other lot will be unhappy. personally my biggest fault with DA2 isn't that they took away compromise options but that they took away all options. or rather, the consequences of the options.

Spoiler:

side with the Templars at the end... plays out exactly the same as siding with the Mages except for three or four lines of dialogue
agree with Grace's plan to kill Thrask in Act 1? doesn't matter, you end up working with Thrask and he and Grace become allies anyway
side with Petrice against the Qunari, just a few bits of different dialogue

[Stuart]

RPGs and adventure games have always fueled my love for gaming but the direction of mainstream U.S. RPGs of late has left me completely disillusioned. They seem to get dumbed down more by the year. Dragon Age: Origins was a good game, not Baldur's Gate/Planescape Torment level great but a worthy game that gave me hope for the "tactical + dialogue" style of RPG. But DA2 ripped out many of the best aspects and forced in the "streamlined" (read: aimed at 15-year-olds) elements that have hurt or killed many promising RPGs.

Most of my hope for western RPGs now lie in the European developers producing games like The Witcher (and the upcoming sequel which looks great), Risen, and Divinity 2. At least they still seem to love their craft and try to evolve it. On the USA side of things, Bethesda's next Elder Scrolls installment, Skyrim, looks promising. Oblivion got a lot of hype and mainstream press but felt dry to me and those open world RPGs I mentioned above like Witcher and Risen were much better games IMO so hopefully Skyrim learns some things from them and is a great game.

[rayvio]

Originally Posted by rayvio

I started to throw together a short parody of what Origins would've been like if it used DA2s design ideas on the BioWare forum (to their credit BioWare don't lock or delete parodies or constructive criticisms) but due to surprising amounts of positive feedback I kept writing more, 'tis here if anyone fancies a read. it makes fun of a few flaws and common criticisms in Origins as well

the parody is finished now, if anyone's interested. or at least until I write Hunt for Awakened Golems

[Crunchy in milk]

Originally Posted by rayvio

Spoiler:

side with the Templars at the end... plays out exactly the same as siding with the Mages except for three or four lines of dialogue
agree with Grace's plan to kill Thrask in Act 1? doesn't matter, you end up working with Thrask and he and Grace become allies anyway
side with Petrice against the Qunari, just a few bits of different dialogue

Most of these scream cutting room floor, and are no doubt a result of the ludicrous time frame they where given to develop. Laidlaw tried and failed to come out in support of the shorter development cycle, ended up admitting he'd have liked longer and settled for a parting jab at Origin's development time. With so much hate for Origins its a wonder he got lead on DA2...

I was particularly miffed by the cut Viscount content. You actually press Petrice for her support if you kept her alive, you can question Bran for information on it, Sebastian talks about it non stop, and has an argument with Aveline about how much he supports Hawke for the position. If you're female and rivalmance him he gets all het-up over a union between the Prince of Starkhaven and the Viscountess of Kirkwall.

And its for nothing, its just handwaved that you always get the position if you support M in conversation, immediately after the act of terrorism... no matter what you where like or did before.

I kind of miss the 'shit... that's going to come back to haunt me' decisions. I still can't identify what the Magistrate did to get back at me for killing his son.

[J-Boo]

I thought I had read in the game guide that the Nathaniel Howe quest only comes up if you import your character from Awakenings. I did not import my character, but I am in my second playthrough of DA2 and the Nathaniel quest has come up. Has this happened to anyone else?

Also, if you "rivalmance" Sebastian, does he still insist on a chaste relationship even if he is choosing Starkhaven over the chantry?

[Crunchy in milk]

Nathaniel's sister appearing when he's dead is a known bug, you're supposed to get an alternate quest to re-enter the deep roads and its slightly different, though no less dull than Nathaniel's mission.

Rivalmanced Sebastian may be more vocally responsive to Hawke's sleazy advances but he still won't show up at her mansion one night to knock boots. He'll still beg off, only this time its because he wants to be prince of Starkhaven first and 'worthy' of her.

As mentioned before, he'll insist she be nominated as Viscount and their union be a union of cities, but the viscount content seems all but scrapped and nothing comes of it.

There is no Sebastian loving, but despite what the guidebooks say I had a fem-Hawke who slept with Isabela for fun, with Fenris and let him leave, then with Anders and refused to let him live rent free in her mansion (look on his face was priceless), then picked up with Sebastian and had him talking marriage and unions after a few ribald come ons.

Maybe he was just putting her off delicately with talk of wealth and power, clever man.

[J-Boo]

Okay, thanks for all the info!

Yeah, in my first playthrough I had the other quest into the deep roads, with the dwarf brothers.