[Dale Baldwin]

My biggest issue with the game is that it has Oblivion-dungeon syndrome. You feel like you're treading the same areas over and over again; even all the mansion areas have the same layout (including fallen painting in front of the stairs). It comes across as very lazy on Bioware's part.

I don't remember that being as much of an issue in DA:O. You had far more variety in environments you were visiting.

[Burns11]

Originally Posted by rayvio

but still, the good outweighs the bad, in my opinion at least. and I really love how a lot of decisions have unexpected consequences further into the game

Spoiler:

I even had Aveline complain to me that I'd sold her dead husbands shield years ago. love that they thought about that, so many games don't

Spoiler:

You sold her dead husband's shield? That's cold.

Originally Posted by Dale Baldwin

My biggest issue with the game is that it has Oblivion-dungeon syndrome. You feel like you're treading the same areas over and over again; even all the mansion areas have the same layout (including fallen painting in front of the stairs). It comes across as very lazy on Bioware's part.

I don't remember that being as much of an issue in DA:O. You had far more variety in environments you were visiting.

To be fair they do lock some of the doors.

[aries323]

Stanley Woo, a Bioware dev. has this to say:

Quote:

We believe many of the concerns are legitimate. We would prefer to hear them without the conspiracy theories, name-calling, insults, spam, and posturing. Thank you for presenting yourselves and your opinions well.

source:
http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/to...x/6531015&lf=8


To me, this clearly sounds like maybe EA has but a mild (or heavy?) pressure on Bioware to make the game in a hurry to make some quick cash because of the sales numbers and popularity of DA: Origins. And that Stan, and other Bioware devs. need the constructive criticism so that they can show this to EA. I'm just guessing, of course...

In this thread:

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/to...x/6565715&lf=8

Woo explains how games are more today.

[Burns11]

So you take a post saying they would like constructive criticism without things like conspiracy theories by crafting a conspiracy theory around it? Nice.

[Owskie]

i dunno, sounds logical

[rayvio]

Originally Posted by Dale Baldwin

My biggest issue with the game is that it has Oblivion-dungeon syndrome. You feel like you're treading the same areas over and over again; even all the mansion areas have the same layout (including fallen painting in front of the stairs). It comes across as very lazy on Bioware's part.

I don't remember that being as much of an issue in DA:O. You had far more variety in environments you were visiting.

I found that only to be a mild annoyance, and for buildings (the layout at least) it makes a kind of sense, it's not uncommon for buildings in the same city to have the same design. most of the caves and mines being identical on the other hand... but I can understand why they've done it to save time. I'd have preferred they spent longer on the game and improved it but we all know there was no rEAl chance of them being allowed to do that... so it comes down to prioritising where the time and resources should be spent

having completed the game a few times now though I have a new big complaint. replayability
don't get me wrong, there's a lot of things you can do differently on different playthroughs, but most of them are only minor things and have little or no actual effect on the rest of the game. Origins had three different main endings and hundreds of variables that would effect the epilogue, plus several parts of the game played out somewhat differently depending on your origin and/or earlier decisions. DA2 seems to be sadly lacking this and I worry this will badly hurt its appeal as time goes on. I know some people are happy to buy a game, play it once and proclaim it the greatest game ever but never play it again, or happily play the same game twice in the exact same way, but personally I love a game I can play again and again and have it be different each time. it's one of the reasons Blade Runner is one of my favourite adventure games
it also doesn't help that we still don't have a toolkit. mods played a large part in keeping Origins alive with new content, and much like the Awakening expansion (which sadly never got a toolset update either) DA2 badly needs new content to keep it fresh, and having to pay for DLC is far from a perfect solution

[Crunchy in milk]

Merrill's romance can seriously bug out, apparently. You can miss a whole lot of her side story because she jumps ahead in it, skipping over the quest set-up.

I find the repeating environments a little confusing because I mix them up. I forget if I've searched a particular corner or not on this particular visit. Minor but frustrating backtracking ensues. Retreading to discover new loot is a terrible idea.

Act I is a terrible and terribly long introduction to the game, the story doesn't actually get going till mid Act II.

Overall the game is fun if you play it on its own merits, but it can't help but leave you frustrated at the polished gem it could have been, instead of a rushed release. I don't mind the art style and found certain areas artistically beautiful.

I found the dialogue a bit of a mixed bag, its a surprisingly good fit for a creepy Rance Hawke play through.



Gahahaha!

[Balderduck]

I wonder if this downgrading to a more mindless gaming experience that most of the gaming companies follow to appeal to younger and more casual audiences actually pays off.

I compare it to the music industry or the movie industry for the same effect. I mean people might like Lady Gaga now, or Transformers movies, but will they still like them after 10 years? I seriously doubt that. But great music and movies like the Beatles, or the Godfather are enjoyed 40-50 years after they were made...not to mention Beethoven or Shakespeare...

The same goes for great games I guess. I mean people will always enjoy Monkey Island and Baldur's gate, but who's going to play doom clone number 1235 30 years after it was made?

[Phenomsandwich]

played the demo, but wasn't so impressed by the gameplay.

[SamuelGordon]

I REALLY regret buying this game. I just completed it 100% (sidequests,etc) and it's complete garbage. It's different than DaO. The characters were uninteresting and you never felt like you had a real connection. The romance is ridiculous. The Quests& sidequests are repetitive, boring and you do not get any real satisfaction from doing them (no better loot, no better equipment,etc).

Horrible,horrible,horrible game..i'm so disappointed. I'm gonna go sell the game and i won't buy dragon age 3 in the future, i'll save that money for Skyrim. Shame on you bioware

[Crunchy in milk]

Originally Posted by SamuelGordon

...I'm gonna go sell the game and i won't buy dragon age 3 in the future

I'm keenly looking forward to Dragon Age 3. Just to see how they sell it. I was just dumbfounded at the approach they took to promote DA2.

Targeting the lowest common denominator might do wonders for their pockets but I have to wonder how rewarding making and patching the game has been for Bioware.

[Balderduck]

Is this the end of RPGs?

Will we ever see a Baldur's Gate or a Planescape: Torment?
Games that are labours of love instead of cash grabs?
Games that focus on Role Playing elements and strategic fights instead of button-mashing hack and slash?
Games that are epic when you buy them instead of charging you for DLC content on day 1?
Games where exploring and getting immersed into the world is more important than fighting the same enemy in every corner?

Have we (the people who like that kind of games) become obsolete?

I won't expect Bioware to save the genre anymore after this unbelievably cheap trick they pulled with this game...

Perhaps like with the adventuregame the Rpg game (and I mean non-hack n slash RPGs) must now turn to the independent developer...

thoughts?

[AndreaDraco83]

Yes, one.

I'm playing on PC and there's no button-mashing of sorts. Granted, the waves of enemies are a chore, but there's nothing hack-n-slash in this game. I can pause whenever I want and the difficulty - at least at hard/nightmare - is satisfying. I regret not having a strategic camera, yes. Still, comparing Dragon Age 2 to an action-RPG is unjust, at least on PC.

[Roper Klacks]

Originally Posted by AndreaDraco83

Yes, one.

I'm playing on PC and there's no button-mashing of sorts. Granted, the waves of enemies are a chore, but there's nothing hack-n-slash in this game. I can pause whenever I want and the difficulty - at least at hard/nightmare - is satisfying. I regret not having a strategic camera, yes. Still, comparing Dragon Age 2 to an action-RPG is unjust, at least on PC.

I agree, Dragon Age 2 is a boring mess, but that's not because of the combat. it's less tactical than Origins, but it's not that different really.

[AndreaDraco83]

Originally Posted by Roper Klacks

I agree, Dragon Age 2 is a boring mess [...]

Well, while I have my gripes with it, I like it. A lot. I'd even go as far as saying that the story is better that the Orings' one.

[Burns11]

I definitely liked the second game better than the first, no doubt it had issues, but I just flat out enjoyed the second more.

As far as combat on a console, sure they made it so you have to "button mash" through fights, but it's no less strategic and I actually find the button mashing makes the game a lot more engaging when having to fight the automatic enemies.

[Balderduck]

Maybe the reason I lost some fights when I had Anders and Fenris on my group was because they were staring at my butt. When I went to have a discussion with them after the mission they both came on to me with offers of gay love!

Now, good for them to be openly gay, really, I applaud them, but we've got Kirkwall to save DAMMIT!

[rayvio]

they're actually bi (or at least Anders is, since he was interested in women in Awakening) and only if you're male. if you're female they're both straight but Merrill is bi. Isabela is always bi, partly due to being established as so in Origins
it's an interesting way of solving the complaints about the Origins romances

[haptsonir]

Originally Posted by Balderduck

Is this the end of RPGs?

I don't think so. Bioware has been going down this path, away from serious RPGs, ever since the "romances" came to dominate the fanbase of BG2. That's ten years ago. The genre, the rest of it, is still alive - just not in their hands.

Vampire: Bloodlines, Mask Of The Betrayer, Fallout: New Vegas are all solid games. Then there are the indies; the Spiderweb Software games, the promising Age Of Decadence. There's a steady trickle, as there ever was, even if it has been a weaker few years for RPGs than the late 90's were.

Will we ever see a Baldur's Gate or a Planescape: Torment?
Games that are labours of love instead of cash grabs?
Games that focus on Role Playing elements and strategic fights instead of button-mashing hack and slash?

Not from Bioware, but looking back, this should have been clear a long time ago.

Do you know Age of Decadence? I don't know if it will meet the promise of its design vision, but they are at least attempting to make a proper RPG. The combat demo is promising.

Have we (the people who like that kind of games) become obsolete?

I think that, as the game business matures, games will continue to emerge for the niche markets, perhaps more than before. Just as they still sometimes make serious films alongside the Michael Bay summer blockbuster schlock. You'll be disappointed if you expect a serious product from Bayware, however.

I won't expect Bioware to save the genre anymore after this unbelievably cheap trick they pulled with this game...

They haven't ever been in a position to "save" the genre, and they've never been needed to do so either.

[Niko]

With all the changes they made from Origins, i was going to give up after about an hour in, but i gave it a chance & it grew on me, by about the second act i was hooked. Mainly with the stories & charatcers, the other changes they made were more of an annoyance really, but you could tweak things or you just get used to it really. I expected allot more , a little dissapointed but overall it was enjoyable enough.