[sTyLnK]

You never know how a game will turn out. I do understand the whole, don't mess when you have a good thing going, but sometimes change is good. I'm very curious to see how this turns out. It's getting an awful lot of hate from the hardcore fans. I hope this game proves them wrong.

[Ninja Dodo]

Honestly, I felt even the second one didn't quite capture what made the first one good, so I already checked out of this series.

[Intrepid Homoludens]

Originally Posted by Ninja Dodo

Honestly, I felt even the second one didn't quite capture what made the first one good, so I already checked out of this series.

I disagree. I think the second one was very strong on its own and even expanded on the first, with variations on gameplay (like when you played Mona and had to snipe thugs from a rooftop to ensure Max's safe crossing), a very good plot, and deeper characterization.

[Ninja Dodo]

I don't know, for me it didn't tread that balance between self-conscious cheesyness and super-serious noir cum John Woo quite the same way the first did and I wasn't sold on the drama or the romance.

Though to be fair I played the sequel very recently and the original a long time ago, so maybe I'm just being nostalgic.

[Roper Klacks]

The second one had a much better narrative, in my opinion. I think Max's inner strugle and guilty feelings were better developed in the second game. And the romance between Max and Mona was great, not so much because of the romance per se, that was not "true love", it was almost a dependence, an addiction for Max, a way for him to escape his inner fears. And at the end, finally, Max managed to overcome his wife death. I really liked that, it finished the story pretty well.

But even with a dark story, at the same time Remedy kept the same over the top humour as the first one (Captain Baseball-Bat Boy, address unknown and Lords and Ladys tv shows), the noir cliches and references and the self-parody.

However, as pure action i prefered the first one. it was more intense and was a lot longer. I think they are both great action games, that complement each other perfectly.

[Terramax]

On the contrary I loved the action of the second game more. It felt more refined and was less stingy on the bullet time.

Story wise, whilst MP2 had its moments and answered all questions we had after the first, Max didn't seem quite as tortured hence I wasn't as emotionally attached to the story.

I can have imagined the 2nd being any better than it was though (appart from visually looking a tad more gritty) and it's one of the very few sequels I've enjoyed, period.

[youfightlikeadairyfarmer]

I thought it the story and characters of the first game were stupid and only served as a bad attempt at adding something to what was essentially a showcase of bullet-time action.
Which was so awesome that the game itself was sweet.
I haven't played the second one at all.

[kadji-kun]

Originally Posted by youfightlikeadairyfarmer

I thought it the story and characters of the first game were stupid and only served as a bad attempt at adding something to what was essentially a showcase of bullet-time action.
Which was so awesome that the game itself was sweet.
I haven't played the second one at all.

Then you know nothing about Noir media. Good job.

[Bruno_Malta]

I´m from Brasil. São Paulo actually which is the place that Rockstar sent some people to study and take notes for the game. From what i gather there you be the slums and the "nice" part of São Paulo. I just hate when all they depict outside Brasil are the slums. We have here some pretty nice places too.

[lasenity]

Looks nothing like Max Payne.

[youfightlikeadairyfarmer]

Originally Posted by kadji-kun

Then you know nothing about Noir media. Good job.

Ummm, ok? I'm not sure if that was a jab at me or what.
I liked the game, but Max Payne's plot was very basic and the constipated goofy live-action comic things were stupid and looked terrible. It's not because I "know nothing about Noir media", it's because it was done poorly.
Maybe it's more of: You just like things that are stupid. Good job.

[Roper Klacks]

Originally Posted by youfightlikeadairyfarmer

Ummm, ok? I'm not sure if that was a jab at me or what.
I liked the game, but Max Payne's plot was very basic and the constipated goofy live-action comic things were stupid and looked terrible. It's not because I "know nothing about Noir media", it's because it was done poorly.
Maybe it's more of: You just like things that are stupid. Good job.

What kadji-kun wanted to say is that the characters, as well as the setting, dialogues, narrative (basically the whole game) are a reference and an homage to the noir media. Some of the characters are almost a over the top parody. I dont think Max's character is stupid or done poorly, he is just built around all those references, and in my opinion Remedy hit the spot on that matter.

[ggreen737]

Originally Posted by Roper Klacks

What kadji-kun wanted to say is that the characters, as well as the setting, dialogues, narrative (basically the whole game) are a reference and an homage to the noir media. Some of the characters are almost a over the top parody. I dont think Max's character is stupid or done poorly, he is just built around all those references, and in my opinion Remedy hit the spot on that matter.

Agreed. I'm sorry, but if you didn't like Max Payne for the reasons listed, then you obviously don't like Noir, or don't yet understand it.

[kadji-kun]

Originally Posted by Roper Klacks

What kadji-kun wanted to say is that the characters, as well as the setting, dialogues, narrative (basically the whole game) are a reference and an homage to the noir media. Some of the characters are almost a over the top parody. I dont think Max's character is stupid or done poorly, he is just built around all those references, and in my opinion Remedy hit the spot on that matter.

Exactly. Though, I doubt many kids understand Noir, since it derives from a lot of old films and books, something kids nowadays dislike.

[Bruno_Malta]

Wasn´t Max Payne a little older on the second game? This one from MP 3 looks younger and a Vin Diesel look a like.

[DustyShinigami]

After playing Stranglehold, I had a craving to replay the first Max Payne. This is Max Payne how he/it should be!

[kadji-kun]

Originally Posted by Bruno_Malta

Wasn´t Max Payne a little older on the second game? This one from MP 3 looks younger and a Vin Diesel look a like.

Don't know. MP3 looks right to me. He was older in MP2, but this one pretty much looks as if he finally hit that mark.

[youfightlikeadairyfarmer]

Originally Posted by kadji-kun

Exactly. Though, I doubt many kids understand Noir, since it derives from a lot of old films and books, something kids nowadays dislike.

I'm not a kid anymore but when I was I watched and enjoyed plenty of old film noir like The Maltese Falcon and Casablanca and many others. I also listened to a lot of similar old radio shows. Were you even born in the 1940s? If not, then how many of the other people your age really cared about old movies and books? Granted those who don't are missing out on quite a bit, but it is more of a niche/geek thing. I was able to grasp the appeal of noir and crime drama even then, it's nothing too complicated although there may be some argument over definition. To say I don't understand it because I thought Max Payne was very poorly done is ridiculous. Even if it was supposed to be a parody, it wasn't funny or entertaining (other than the hilariousness of his goofy looking face). Grim Fandango was a GOOD example of film noir parody used in a video game. I don't know if you worked on the game or why you took it so personally, but I feel like you threw out some you should apologize to me or else I'm going to want to hurt your feelings using an incredible insult of my own.

[Intrepid Homoludens]

Double Indemnity (1944)

Double Indemnity trailer - worth a watch. Compare it to the Max Payne games.

Originally Posted by youfightlikeadairyfarmer

I'm not a kid anymore but when I was I watched and enjoyed plenty of old film noir like The Maltese Falcon and Casablanca and many others. I also listened to a lot of similar old radio shows. Were you even born in the 1940s? If not, then how many of the other people your age really cared about old movies and books? Granted those who don't are missing out on quite a bit, but it is more of a niche/geek thing. I was able to grasp the appeal of noir and crime drama even then, it's nothing too complicated although there may be some argument over definition.

What, then, is 'noir'? And what was your experience with it? Did you read tons of novels, devour the writings of Dashiell Hammett, Raymond Chandler, and James M. Cain? I've only seen the film version of To Have And Have Not, but have yet to read the book by Hemingway that it's based on (he's one of my favourite writers). What's your take on the film versus the book?

I absolutely loved both Max Payne and Max Payne 2: The Fall Of Max Payne. My own take on it is that both games start with the premise of noir style narrative, atmosphere, and mood, then spin it in their own way. So I'd say there are definitely heavy noir influences whether it be aesthetics in the art direction and lighting, characterization, or somber undercurrent. But the games definitely take it from there. I loved the sometimes warped sense of humour, from the recording of Max talking on the phone to Candy and just "needing someone to talk to", to the playing up of stereotypical gangster cannon fodder, to the sexy yet funny banter between anti-hero and the 'dame' (i.e. femme fatale).

I would say both games have noir-ish beginnings, but along the way Remedy completely took such influences and made them their own.

[kadji-kun]

Originally Posted by youfightlikeadairyfarmer

I'm not a kid anymore but when I was I watched and enjoyed plenty of old film noir like The Maltese Falcon and Casablanca and many others. I also listened to a lot of similar old radio shows. Were you even born in the 1940s? If not, then how many of the other people your age really cared about old movies and books? Granted those who don't are missing out on quite a bit, but it is more of a niche/geek thing. I was able to grasp the appeal of noir and crime drama even then, it's nothing too complicated although there may be some argument over definition. To say I don't understand it because I thought Max Payne was very poorly done is ridiculous. Even if it was supposed to be a parody, it wasn't funny or entertaining (other than the hilariousness of his goofy looking face). Grim Fandango was a GOOD example of film noir parody used in a video game. I don't know if you worked on the game or why you took it so personally, but I feel like you threw out some you should apologize to me or else I'm going to want to hurt your feelings using an incredible insult of my own.

I'm apart of the last generation that actually gave a shit about history and the past. Since your not a kid, then I take it back. I'm only stating a partial fact that a lot of kids now days only care about what is placed right in front of them. Anything else if void. Most of the people I grew up with knew about Noir. I aimed it at you because your comment on Max Payne being horrible is like saying Noir is horrible. Something a kid would say. I want to say its all opinion, but it really isn't. Technically, Max Payne is one of the better if not best Noir video game. Besides the game Noir itself.

There are more than one type of Noir. Max Payne being a modern Noir, which mixes modern production values with early Noir writing methods. It nails it on the head.