[insane_cobra]

It's strange that there's not a single thread about this game.





Many of you are probably aware of Too Human's retreat into shadows after its less than stellar showing at last year's E3. Well, now it's back with a video preview and a comprehensive hands-on preview from IGN. To say that I'm excited about this game would be the understatement of the, uh, hour. Right now it's among my most wanted games accross all platforms, if not at the very top of that list.





Too Human is an action RPG with an unusually developed combat system (for its genre), inspired by today's finest action games. However, its dual stick control scheme should keep it simple enough for people not versed in that kind of gameplay.

The game's science fiction story is set in our universe, only thousands of years before our time. It's a modern retelling of mythological events described in Eddas and other ancient manuscripts (Beowulf is one example mentioned in IGN's preview). What makes me so enthusiastic about it is the fact that the game is being developed by Silicon Knights, acknowledged masters of storytelling (Eternal Darknes: Sanity's Requiem, Blood Omen: Legacy of Kain), who consider Too Human to be a piece of work that will define them for years to come.





The upcoming Xbox 360 game is only the first part of the trilogy and you'll be able to transfer your partially developed characters (50 levels of development are planned for the first game) to its later sequels. The game will also support four player multiclass co-op with people being able to join or quit as they see fit. Anyway, I've already said enough, go read the preview.

So, anyone else interested in this baby?

[aries323]

erm --

As a Dane, I'm very tired of Norse mythoology apparantly being re-interpreted (again) to make a killing/action game with a 'false' God, named Baldur, who wasn't a warrior god, but a god of peace, joy and forgiveness.

And who never who have, in (real) Norse mythologu lifted a weapon himself.
And I'm sure that if the writings of the EDDAs had written their Norse Sagas today, that they (combined) would have launched a law-suit against Silicion
Knight's use of their (protected) copyrighted, trademarked and IP work!

Sorry, but I'm very tired of how anyone in both Canada and the US apparently sees fit to change Norse (and Greek) mythology to ther liking
so it fit their best interest. [as a sidenote, I once loved to watch Hercules
on tv, but don't anymore, since apparently only Zeus (Jupiter) is a good god, while Aries (Mars) is an 'evil' god. I can't stand to watch this (anymore), since I know that the ancient Greeks didn't see it this way, but some writers in US apparently does.

I guess it would people in the US would feel the same if Europeans started to rewrite and re-interpret the myths about the cowboys?

And it might have been that they have read the stories, but apparently they haven't understand the Norse mythology (that well)...

[eXo]

looks like devil may cry without the pizza eating jukebox bad-assery.

instead we get a buncha halo looking dudes and what seems to be more damned aliens.

frame it in any mythology you want, the game play looks repetitive.

[insane_cobra]

Originally Posted by aries323

erm --

As a Dane, I'm very tired of Norse mythoology apparantly being re-interpreted (again) to make a killing/action game with a 'false' God, named Baldur, who wasn't a warrior god, but a god of peace, joy and forgiveness.

And who never who have, in (real) Norse mythologu lifted a weapon himself.

I can see where you're coming from, however...

Originally Posted by IGN

Norse mythology is the backbone for Too Human. To create the game, Silicon Knights dug deep into the ancient Eddas and found its heroes and its villains buried within. These works, written hundreds of years ago, tell of gods, of giants, and of monsters. You may recognize the god of thunder, Thor, whose mighty hammer unleashed thunderclaps. However, you have probably never heard of Baldur. He is the pretty boy of gods by some definitions and maybe not the ideal choice for a warrior hero. He is said to represent goodness, joy, forgiveness and peace, but in Too Human he carries a big sword, wields two powerful guns, and he's out to destroy anyone or anything that gets in his way.

"[Why not go with] some of the cooler gods?" jokes Dyack when we ask him why Silicon Knights chose Baldur as the protagonist of its epic story. You know, I think that's a really good question and the answer to that comes out in the story. Right now, it might seem like a bad choice, but I feel pretty confident that by the time the story comes full circle, people will think it was absolutely the best choice."

Originally Posted by eXo

looks like devil may cry without the pizza eating jukebox bad-assery.

instead we get a buncha halo looking dudes and what seems to be more damned aliens.

frame it in any mythology you want, the game play looks repetitive.

Yeah, many people are quick to dismiss it on those grounds, but according to Silicon Knights there's a lot more to Too Human than that.

[aries323]

Actually, I have read all 5 pages of it (read through them intensively yesterday). And I think maybe a over-reacted a little bit . I thought, as many others probably did, when they read the first page that it was an action/shooter kind of game. But it isn't !

It is an rpg game with action intertwined, and I don't understand why this fact shall be hidden way back on page 3 (I think or maybe it was 4?). It as if Silicon Knigts just is ashamed to mention that the game is an (action) rpg game. And as I can tell from reading about the game, the game has a decent story, tied somewhat into Norse mythology...

but i still stand somewhat on my first ground...

[insane_cobra]

Originally Posted by aries323

It as if Silicon Knigts just is ashamed to mention that the game is an (action) rpg game.

Actually, that might be close to the truth. Denis Dyack has been known of saying that they're presenting Too Human as an action game because many (console) gamers identify (console) RPGs with turn-based combat systems, and Too Human doesn't really fit that mold. They also believe many gamers (especially current Xbox 360 owners) consider such games boring, and SK want people to give Too Human a chance.

By the way, a great cutscene video has been uploaded today. I'm quite impressed with showcased voice acting and lip-syncing, and the lines seem well written as well.

[eXo]

Originally Posted by insane_cobra

Yeah, many people are quick to dismiss it on those grounds, but according to Silicon Knights there's a lot more to Too Human than that.

I had already watched a 20 minutes demo/discussion of the game before posting my comment, so it was not so much a 'quick dismissal'.

Regarding what Silicon Knights said about their own game....

Anyone remember John Romero stating that Daikatana would singlehandedly redefine the entire PC gaming industry?

Thats an extreme example, but developers always talk up there games beyond their capabilities.

So many times I've picked up the controls, tried to do something cool they had originally mentioned, only to find it was stripped due to time/budget/whatever.

Right now the gameplay videos look dull and repetitive.

When I see a gameplay video that demonstrates something else, I'll re-evaluate.

In the mean time I refuse to believe in invisible 'fun-fairies' that no one can see or experience except the guy holding the controller.

[Dasilva]

Silicon Knights has a good track record:

Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes (Gamecube)
Eternal Darkness: Sanity's Requiem (Gamecube)
Blood Omen: Legacy of Kain (PC)

And Too Human is the next game, all those games got super reviews, and I've played all 3 and love them to bits, Silicon Knights is not to be treated as some newbie developer. Have faith guys.

[eXo]

Originally Posted by Dasilva

Silicon Knights has a good track record:

Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes (Gamecube)
Eternal Darkness: Sanity's Requiem (Gamecube)
Blood Omen: Legacy of Kain (PC)

And Too Human is the next game, all those games got super reviews, and I've played all 3 and love them to bits, Silicon Knights is not to be treated as some newbie developer. Have faith guys.

Ok, MGS: Twin Snakes was a port. You can't give them much credit for taking a great game and making it run on the gamecube.

Blood Omen got an an average of a B- across it's reviews
Gamespot - 7.6
Gamestats - 7.8
IGN - 8.5
(Many other sites I checked ranged between 7.5-8.5)

Eternal Darkness is a love/hate game. Reviews are either Solid A's or Solid C's (or below).

Most of the A reviews are simply because it was one of the first games to come out on the Cube that wasn't first party and wasn't a N64 port (oh wait.. it WAS a N64 port )

So this company has only put out 2 arguably decent games.

that is not a strong track record bud

[insane_cobra]

Originally Posted by Dasilva

Silicon Knights has a good track record:

Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes (Gamecube)
Eternal Darkness: Sanity's Requiem (Gamecube)
Blood Omen: Legacy of Kain (PC)

Ah, younglings... How could you not mention Dark Legions? Go punish yourself.





Anyway, Twin Snakes is a remake (and a quite good one, I hear), not a port. Blood Omen is the very definition of a cult game and the starting point of a rather successful franchise (also its high point, according to some). Eternal Darkness is widely regarded as one of the best games of the past generation. But hey, whatever rocks your boat.

[Dasilva]

Originally Posted by eXo

Ok, MGS: Twin Snakes was a port. You can't give them much credit for taking a great game and making it run on the gamecube.

You obviously do not know what your talking about Its not a port it was a full fledged remake of the original. And I've played both versions and I can say whole hearted that this is masterful work coming from a studio that didn't originally make MGS. MGS is big shoes to fill, even for a remake, and it got very good reviews.

Originally Posted by eXo

Blood Omen got an an average of a B- across it's reviews
Gamespot - 7.6
Gamestats - 7.8
IGN - 8.5
(Many other sites I checked ranged between 7.5-8.5)

Are you kidding? The Soul Reaver series might not get A* reviews, but a A* review doesnt make the game successful, there a huge following with this series.

Originally Posted by eXo

Eternal Darkness is a love/hate game. Reviews are either Solid A's or Solid C's (or below). Most of the A reviews are simply because it was one of the first games to come out on the Cube that wasn't first party and wasn't a N64 port (oh wait.. it WAS a N64 port )

You think Eternal Darkness got amazing reviews because they pittied Nintendo? Please, Eternal Darkness is innovative in so many ways, and is hands down the creepiest game I ever played, dont talk about stuff you dont know or haven't played.

Originally Posted by eXo

So this company has only put out 2 arguably decent games. that is not a strong track record bud

Erm, Its a strong start which is very good, most companies start out with crappy average games. Silicon Knights is respectable in my books, there no reason to doubt them. TBH, I hate how arrogant you sound in your posts, its a tad annoying.

[eXo]

Classically, games released at the beginning of a systems life cycle get much better reviews simply due to the lack of other games to compare them to.

I'm not turning this into a bloody war over whether or not the gamecube, wii, or whatever is a good system - or if people pitied them at the time. I never stated anything like that.

I'm saying Eternal Darkness benefited from the fact it had no competition on a system dominated by first party titles.

Personally, I liked Blood Omen at the time it came out. Doesn't mean its a classic game.

And dont even start arguing the differences between a damned port and a remake. Kojima gets full credit for the game. Silicon Knights did not develop the story, they did not develop the gameplay, and they did not develop the characters.

All they did was take a game that was already out, add some extra bits, an re-release it.

Whether you agree with that or not, Silicon knights did NOT develop the MGS series and frankly they would have to be a really crappy developer to screw up a remake of that franchise.

I stand by the fact that making 2 decent games means nothing. Especially considering it has taken them 10 years to release those 2 games.

And for the record, they also made Cyber Empires and Fantasy Empires, two craptastic d&d games that didn't sell at all.

So your statement that most developers start with a few crappy games is correct - and it applies to these guys as well.

Peter Molyneux made classic games nonstop. Doesnt mean everything the guy produces is instant gold.

Anyways, non of this changes the fact that the game looks repetitive and I can see anything unique in gameplay yet.

And now that i think about it, Blood Omen was really friggin repetitive.

[aries323]

I'm sort of worried, though, that SK hyping their Too Human game as an action game will disappoint (many) action game fans. And not get enough
rpg fans to buy the game. If you say you game is an action game and then it turns out that it is, in reality, a (sort of) rpg game, couldn't that be considered false advertising ??

Anyway, Oblivion is out for both the PS3 and the Xbox 360, and I don't think that the console folks consider Oblivion an action game?? Mass Effect will also be released for the Xbox 360, and this isn't an action game either. (even though Bioware is trying to market Mass Effect as an action, it really isn't).

RPGs - turnbased ?? It has been a many a moon since rpgs were turnbased, but maybe the console folks are thinking about the Final Fantasy games, which I hear is (nearly) all turnbased. The thing is, though, that turnbased games, on the PC, like Fallout 1+2, are quite different from the turnbased games on the consoles.

I just think it will be ashame if the console action fans buy Too Human, only to discover that it is, in fact an (action) rpg...

[insane_cobra]

Originally Posted by aries323

If you say you game is an action game and then it turns out that it is, in reality, a (sort of) rpg game, couldn't that be considered false advertising ??

Not if RPG parts stay well hidden from those who don't care about them. Both Mass Effect and Too Human are taking that approach.

Anyway, Oblivion is out for both the PS3 and the Xbox 360, and I don't think that the console folks consider Oblivion an action game??

No, but I was surprised to find out some people consider it an action RPG.

Mass Effect will also be released for the Xbox 360, and this isn't an action game either. (even though Bioware is trying to market Mass Effect as an action, it really isn't).

The same thing as what Silicon Knights is doing with Too Human, then, isn't it?

It has been a many a moon since rpgs were turnbased, but maybe the console folks are thinking about the Final Fantasy games, which I hear is (nearly) all turnbased.

Exactly.

The thing is, though, that turnbased games, on the PC, like Fallout 1+2, are quite different from the turnbased games on the consoles.

Well, for the most part, although games like Septerra Core and Anachronox have more in common with Japanese/console RPGs than Western/PC RPGs.

[Litrick]

Why are the so many RPGs and war sims on the pc and xbox platforms?
It suits the demographic i guess.
I just wish there were more games like kameo, viva pinata etc, where you dont have to be a computer geek to play them hehe.

i guess thats why we have the wii and the playstation

[insane_cobra]

Actually, PS2 was the RPG platform of the last generation. Xbox 360 getting more and more RPGs is a positive development and it only broadens the platform's appeal.

Anyway, it's not true that the PS(3) has more upcoming games like Kameo and Viva Pinata than the Xbox 360 (the Wii, of course, does). Microsoft is doing a better job of covering the more casual part of the market this time around (although there's certainly room for improvement), it's just that people are uninformed or, in the case of fanboys, intentionally choose to stick to those tired old stereotypes. That's not the topic of this thread, however, but I'll be happy to discuss it elsewhere, if you want to.

[Litrick]

Originally Posted by insane_cobra

Actually, PS2 was the RPG platform of the last generation. Xbox 360 getting more and more RPGs is a positive development and it only broadens the platform's appeal.

Anyway, it's not true that the PS(3) has more upcoming games like Kameo and Viva Pinata than the Xbox 360 (the Wii, of course, does). Microsoft is doing a better job of covering the more casual part of the market this time around (although there's certainly room for improvement), it's just that people are uninformed or, in the case of fanboys, intentionally choose to stick to those tired old stereotypes. That's not the topic of this thread, however, but I'll be happy to discuss it elsewhere, if you want to.

ok i will start another thread