[JemyM]

Anyone here playing this one?

I have always loved the Gothic series. They often get bad reviews due to bugs and chunky controls, which is sad, because they are some of the most immersive RPG's available on PC.

The closest you can get to Gothic is Oblivion or Fallout, and depending on the reason you might have enjoyed them, you might also enjoy Gothic. Gothic
offers a huge world, several cities and lots of NPC's to quest for, you can go days exploring the wilderness because in every corner you find something new. A cave, a locked chest or a terrible monster. Unlike Oblivion, Gothic keeps you closer to the plot and the main plot branch off quite alot without loosing it's grip on you, then brings all back together again for the endgame. Gothic is more personal, giving you actual friends that you will probably come to like and adventure with many times on your journeys.

After the first I thought things couldnt be better, then the sequel came and expanded the game in every way possible. Now with the third they have done it again. I have spent several whole days just exploring 5% of the map and I still cant drop the game.

Take the issues with a grain of salt and try to work around them. The controls are first bad and difficult to use, but once you know them they work good for their purpose and you might even start to do tricks. Most people who give it the first day grow almost obsessed with the game.

Despite the age of the first I recommend all three to any serious rpg fan.

[Fop]

I wonder if Gothic 3s NPCs are as empty as in the earlier games.

[TigerShard]

I've actually started playing Gothic I again recently. I picked up a Gothic I and II a few years ago when I was in Switzerland in order to help me practice my German. At first I was really frustrated due to the controls, but this time I went in with the knowledge that the control scheme was a bit different. Before I did anything, I spent a few minutes trying to figure out how the controls exactly work in the opening area. Now I am immensly enjoying the game, and I actually like the battle system. I will pick up Gothic 3 eventually, in German

[JemyM]

Originally Posted by Fop

I wonder if Gothic 3s NPCs are as empty as in the earlier games.

I have never seen them as empty.

[Ninja Dodo]

Fop, I'm not sure what NPCs you're talking about, because all the ones involved in quests are far from empty. Unlike certain other RPGs you don't get NPCs 'printing out' (for lack of a better word) whole chapters of dry text on anything you are foolish enough to ask about. People actually have something to say.

For example, in most any other RPG a conversation might go like this:

Orc smith: Find me my sword. It's very important + 5 strength. I think Tempek has it. If you get it back I will teach you.

Whereas in Gothic 3 this same exchange goes:

- You should have seen my first sword! It was terrible! I always kept it with me though... It reminded me of my father.

- You don't have it anymore?

- No, but I'm pretty sure Tempek has it. I told him: "Yes, you can take the swords from my hut, but NOT THE OLD ONE ON MY BED!" Of course he didn't listen. Idiot! Tell you what, if you get me my sword back, I'll teach you.

(might not be accurate to the word as this is from memory and I was playing the german version)

So yes, I too am playing Gothic 3 and enjoying it a lot. It's still a bit buggy in places, but I hear a new patch will be out in the next few weeks, so I'm not worried. With a team of twenty and a project of this magnitude, I say cut them some slack. They got the first two stable eventually. The interface may be an acquired taste, and the series may lack the sheer scale of other RPGs but they kick everyone else's ass in depth and character.

Might do a review of the game later when I've explored more of it.

[insane_cobra]

I don't know about Gothic, but conversations with NPCs in most other RPGs haven't sounded like what you're suggesting since god knows when (at least since Fallout).

[Fop]

... Is that an example of good dialogue to you? Fallout, KotOR, Planescape: Torment had good dialogue. At no point does the dialogue from Gothic 1 or 2 get any better than Morrowind or Oblivion, which I suppose are the ones you referred to as 'printing out' chapters of text. I greatly enjoyed both Gothic 1 and 2. They have a great world, but the story and dialogue are completely useless.

[Ninja Dodo]

It's not great dialogue, but it shows some thought at least, which is more than you can say for Morrowind (and from what I've seen Oblivion). And again, I'm paraphrasing, the exact wording may have been more eloquent. My German isn't that good.

The story I'll agree is not terribly deep, and the ultimate goal in Gothic 1 and 2 of slaying the terrible beast is hardly original, but the journey there has some interesting touches.

Spoiler:

The sect looneys and them worshipping a god that turns out to be an evil demon summoned by the Orcs, Xardas the 'evil necromancer' being an ally rather than the bad guy, intelligent strategically minded orcs (the wall in the valley of mines) even sympathetic ones (Urshak), the strained relationship between mercenaries and royal soldiers, not least Lee's unfinished business with the king, that bastard merchant who blackmails you into getting him a stall at the market, etc

I'm not far enough into Gothic 3 to say much about its story, but so far the establishing of the setting and situation is nicely done. I'm curious to learn more about the motives of the Orcs and their occupation, and while I'm sympathetic towards the rebel cause I remember what arrogant jackasses the Paladins used to be in Khorinis, so I'm hesitant to join them just like that. I want to find out more about what's really going on first and what the mages are up to in Nordmar. I wonder where general Lee is and whether he's managed to settle his score with the king and of course what Gorn, Diego and Milten have gotten themselves into this time. To me that's already a pretty interesting story. Maybe I have a vivid imagination and I'm filling in the gaps myself most of the time, or maybe it just isn't all that empty...

No it's not Tim Schafer good writing, but for me it's enough not to break the immersion.

I haven't had a chance to play those three other games you mention but KotoR and Planescape at least are high on my list of things to play. Don't know about Fallout cause I hear it's very stat-heavy and I'm not much a fan of the stats.

[TangentBlack]

Nonesense. I love Gothic wholeheartedly but it has never been a forerunner in great scripting. Its noteriety was derived from the small underdog team creating a masterpiece world in a burlesque manner. It does not take itself too seriously, but Gothic was rewarded for knowing that they had a German translated script and working with it to the best of their ability. Perhaps, though, this is why it failed in the states along with the poor PR. I do think that Gothic had some very ingenuitive plot twists such as the stereotypical necromancer actually siding with the hero for a change and the matter with the whole prison colony being trapped within a large sphere of energy. The story has gotten progressively worse but I have not finished Gothic 3 either, so I suppose I shouldn't speak to soon. I am enjoying the game very much but I think I would like to take a break to wait for the new patch. I really want my experience with Gothic to be a complete one and I don't want to be frusterated by extranious circumstances like crashes. I experienced my first one yesterday and I nearly snapped my keyboard in half. It is a pity that Europe recieved a copy of the game that was haphazardly put together, but I suppose that is what patches are for. (I just hope designers don't make a habit out of it...)

[Ninja Dodo]

I agree it doesn't take itself too seriously, but that only makes it more entertaining. No they're not especially great lines in themselves, but I guess the mere existence of any lines with some hint of character was refreshing after the dialogue encyclopedias of Morrowind. I may be giving it too much credit, but I still say it does the job.

Again though, I'm playing the German version so our experiences might vary somewhat. I haven't seen enough of the English Gothic 3 to really tell...

Interestingly, it seems the voice acting is actually better in the German version of Gothic 3. Orcs sound less like they're trying to speak in a deep voice and the hero's voice also works better. Perhaps the lines are better in the original too. I don't know. My German isn't good enough to pick up on the subtleties.

[Fop]

Well, then it's good that you don't need to pick up any subtleties in order to fully enjoy Gothic

[insane_cobra]

Originally Posted by Ninja Dodo

No they're not especially great lines in themselves, but I guess the mere existence of any lines with some hint of character was refreshing after the dialogue encyclopedias of Morrowind.

Actually, any quest-related dialogue in Morrowind was quite good, at times even better than that snippet of Gothic dialogue you provided. Only seeking information about specific things resulted in encyclopedia-like responses.

Do Gothic games even have that feature? I mean, being able to ask people about pretty much anything you've learned about previously?

[TangentBlack]

Very much so. You can ask about a great many things that do not have to do with your quest at all and sometimes when you learn a new piece of knowledge, you can go back to a previous character that you thought had nothing new to say and ask new dialouge will appear. You still get some of the one liners like "Go away, human" or "I am busy at the moment" from some non-important characters, but a great deal do say important or quest provoking things.

[TangentBlack]

Tiger Shark, I used to live in Novi, Michigan before I moved to Russia. My son actually went to U of M in Ann Arbor for a masters degree. I am assuming you root for the maze and blue, eh? How are they doing nowadays?

[insane_cobra]

Originally Posted by TangentBlack

Very much so. You can ask about a great many things that do not have to do with your quest at all and sometimes when you learn a new piece of knowledge, you can go back to a previous character that you thought had nothing new to say and ask new dialouge will appear. You still get some of the one liners like "Go away, human" or "I am busy at the moment" from some non-important characters, but a great deal do say important or quest provoking things.

Now that's certainly an improvement over Morrowind's dialogue, then. I haven't played Oblivion yet so I wouldn't know how it fares in that comparison.

[eriq]

So any opinions on the game as a whole yet? gameplay? Anyone loving it? I wanna pick this one up.

[TangentBlack]

Well Eriq, first I must say that I am enjoying this game much more than the first two. The world is a beautifully created one with exciting dangers and quests. I have often been on the edge of my seat while exploring a cave only to find an enormous pair of ogres behind a corner. The factions are very well intertwined in the game's overall plot. One could side with the orcs, who I have yet to sympathize with because they have not revealed their motives for conquering the humans, or you could side with the rebels, who were previously the paladins and loyalists to the king. There are many other factions such as slave hunters, nomads, and orc hunters as well as just being an independent party. It is truely a great addition to the series. However, it must be noted that at this given time, the game is far too glitchy for it to be played to its fullest. There are many odd bugs such as a knockdown effect that beasts of prey tend to perform that will kill your character without any chance of defending yourself. Another bug is the terrible graphic problems some users have in regards to compatibility with computers. Even some of the most powerful CPUs are having a difficult time running this game because of the glitches. I should mention that it is the game, not the CPUs, that are at fault. Pirahna Bytes, the game studio, has released one patch and is working on another to follow, which I hope comes out soon. They admit the game is faulty and must be corrected which is a start, if not a late one. I would recommend the game, but not at the moment if you are actually considering on playing it now. The UK version IS out and it will not differ from the US apart from the US version will contain the two patches on CD. So if you can wait, you should. It will be well worth it.

[eriq]

alright! great opinion from someone who's played the first two. Thanks! I will have to grab it. Wondering if I should wait (I have so many games to play) or order from the UK now!

[Dasilva]

Wait a few weeks then it will be 17.99 on play, it always happens, Oblivion is that much for PC now. hehe.

[eriq]

yes sir.