[TangentBlack]

Yes, if you are playing Oblivion, you will not have time to play this game. It is just as time consuming. If you like Oblivion, it is a good chance you will like Gothic 3. Unless of course you hate the third person view.

[Ninja Dodo]

I'm really enjoying it. It's one of the most well realised interactive worlds I've seen... and it has a really refreshing style. Yeah it's fantasy and it's got orcs, zombies, dragons and what have you, but it doesn't feel like your average D&D setting at all. It has a more gritty European medieval style to it... and the landscape is like a character in itself with it's mountain ranges, flowing hills, deep caverns and open grasslands. I've yet to go anywhere that feels like a place I've been to before. Every forest, every town has its own identity... and I haven't even left the region yet! There's the deserts of Varant to the south and the snowy reaches of Nordmar over the pass in Faring... but all in good time. For a game that takes quality over quantity, it's still pretty enormous.

[JemyM]

More into it I have learned about Gothic's 3 two weakest points, that both buyers and new players should be aware of, both are supposed to be fixed by future patches, but it might be a good thing to sit through NWN2 before picking up Gothic 3 (it might be "done" by then).

I am still having fun though, and I have played the game for almost a week straight without a break.

Issue 1 and minispoiler required to avoid breaking the game :

Spoiler:

The first part of the main quest involves liberating a city from orcs or clean out a rebel hideout (this you can do at your will).
After this point you may think you should do the same all over the land, liberating or cleaning.
Once you done this in enough cities the opposing faction will attack you on sight.
Due to plot reasons you find out later on you are unable to continue the game if this have happened.
You can defeat 2-3 cities before this happens but the right and safest way to play is to play neutral as much as possible. Do not steal more than you need. Do not kill either side, even if it seems "safe" and you have subquests to do so. Flirt with each faction as much as possible instead by helping them out.
Do this until you know for sure what needs to be done.

Also, when you meet an NPC named Bradley, do not tell him to take care of his own slaves. That also breaks the game.

Issue 2:
The game was released without tweaking balance. As a result you might find the best items in the game in the first city, low-level creatures might still kill you at level 40, high-level creatures might be killed without taking a scratch by just using the right tactics.

[TangentBlack]

In regards to the first "bug" about the factions. Pirahna Bytes specifically said that this game would be unlike any other. Meaning, you WILL NOT be able to complete every single quest and you must take the quests as they come. This very realistic method is perhaps a nightmare for some RPG players who stress too much about obtaining XP and the best items possible.
The fact that some factions actually attack you is really a no brainer. You can't be the darling of every single faction in the game. You can help many out to start and can continue to do so later in the game. However, like it should be, the Rebels will not like you helping the opposition. This is why you must choose factions like the Rebels and Nomads, or the Hashashin and Mercs. You see, it really is a more realistic interpretation of the world rather than just getting your kicks killing and helping everyone. It CANNOT be done. You can beat the game even if you happen to be anger one specific faction. You just have to play smart after that and make sure that you go to cities that you feel safe enough to reside in for a while.

Spoiler:

This system does have its flaws. There are a few specific quests that I have heard that could or could not be vital to you finishing the game but it really depends how you play. One still should in theory be able to find Xardas with the help of rebels and so forth....

Now the second bug is most likely a legit bug. Most of the higher level characters are meant to be killed when you are at a higher level. The boars and snappers that continue to be a problem because they knock you down with unearthly power should really not happen. This is a problem that they need to fix. About the random items, this was intentional. The items were not supposed to gradually appear as you increase in level like some omnipotent hand is placing things in chests as you continue to level up. The items are random, but items do not mean a whole lot when you a) can't use them at all because of your stats or b) don't play smart to begin with. Just because you found a flame sword or a Nimrod Bow doesnt mean you will start dominating everything in site. PB made it so you will have to be vigilant in all areas, and at all levels.

I think they did a great thing breaking away from the normal cookie cutter format and gave us something real and actually choice driven.

Spoiler:

It won't let me edit my post so I just had to write a new one. The quest with Bradley is an actual bug as well. There are a few known kinks in the formula, but essentially is supposed to play out like I just explained.

[eriq]

I've been reading quite a few reviews mentioning the bugs and strange system resource hogging. Perhaps waiting a few months before buying this is a good idea. I've got Neverwinter 2 in the meantime!

[samIamsad]

Originally Posted by Ninja Dodo

I'm really enjoying it. It's one of the most well realised interactive worlds I've seen... and it has a really refreshing style. Yeah it's fantasy and it's got orcs, zombies, dragons and what have you, but it doesn't feel like your average D&D setting at all. It has a more gritty European medieval style to it... and the landscape is like a character in itself with it's mountain ranges, flowing hills, deep caverns and open grasslands.

Cool, that's what Gothic2 felt like to me. However, I'm seeing people on German boards posting that the third game would have lost that "Gothic" feel. The quests would be even more generic than in Oblivion, the AI routines aren't as fleshed out (people standing around all night long), and so on. To behonest, the second game felt like a tacked on sequel already. The first Gothic was powered by a pretty cool idea actually, a little bit like "Escape From New York" in medieval times. Yet, the second game, while technically superior, had that tacked on sequel feel to it. In stark contrast to the pretty damn cool idea that went on to become the game now known as "Gothic", this one was all about finding ancient artefacts, killing evil dragons, yaddayadda. And the haphazard introduction you would expect from something like that.

Yet, it didn't matter, because the world was really that immersive. Sure, some of that feeling was lost once you were about halfway through the game, because it was a lot about backtracking and revisiting familiar places from then on. And the ending was a lame.

Spoiler:

Here ye dragon, me go kill, the end.

Exactly what you expected it to be, no twist, nothing genuine about that.

The point is, hey, not that my current system could run it anyway, but, if it is true, if some of that immersiveness is actually lost, due to a more generic (read: Daggerfall/Morrowind/etc) feel to pretty much everything, then I'm not sure if I want to play this game that badly. Therein lied Gothic's strength, even though the game world really wasn't small, far from it, it was all about details, not size, quality, not quantity.

[Fop]

Gothic 2 was pretty cool for me, since I hadn't played Gothic 1 at that point. But really, the storyline is the most generic fantasy fare possible, far beyond Morrowind or Oblivion.

[TangentBlack]

Err, I will give you that Morrowind's story is superior, given Gothics poor plot. But Oblivion? That game felt like a living chore for much of the game. I liked the game quite a bit, but I felt like a tool doing all those fetch-me-this tasks for that would-be king.

[Fop]

And yet it's superior. I'm not talking about invidual quests, I'm talking about the story arc. I'd say Oblivions was easily better.

[JemyM]

Originally Posted by Fop

I wonder if Gothic 3s NPCs are as empty as in the earlier games.

Some NPC's arent involved in more than a quest, but most important NPC's you will get to talk to quite alot and even get to learn them a bit better. There's more dialogue than what you found in Oblivion, but not on the heavy level of a Bioware/BlackIsle game (KOTOR, Planescape Torment, Baldurs Gate etc).

Still the dialogue makes very sense. It's a harsh world and the main character is far from a wuss. There's quite alot of choices to be made based on your morals.

[JemyM]

I do not think it's fair to compare Gothic 3 with Oblivion. I personally take Gothic 3 over Oblivion and despite me finishing every quest in the entire Oblivion in over 2 weeks, I still believe I will clock more hours in Gothic 3. I deeply recommend both to anyone, at least after G3 is properly patched.

The world is simply enormous, and have one definite difference to Oblivion: It's all handcrafted/handplaced, all dialogue is handwritten, not generic. Every NPC with a name have an unique dialogue, every cave, every corner of the world have something unique in it. You cannot go by your overview map, but unlike Oblivion you navigate by world recognition. The landscape is simply so custom that you recognize places you have been in before almost right away, even in the middle of forests!

[TangentBlack]

Aye, your right. That is a good point. That really is what it comes down to in the way of differences. Danger in Gothic is real danger, not artificial like many other RPG where enemies are scaled to your level. You must be the strongest and the most clever to survive and Gothic requires adaptation to its environment. You won't be nurtured by a system of constraints to which one must adhere to, you must set your own constraints in order to play. The world does not brag that it is the largest ever created, but it does contain a world that is never the same pattern of trees or rocks. It is never the same looking caves or grassy plains. It is all unique, just like a real world. As to the comment that Gothic does not have the same "feel", I think that is hogwash. Perhaps it just needs the patch for some of the stubborn folk to realize that it is the same game despite its bugs. It is the same Gothic with the same creative world as all the rest.

[Ninja Dodo]

Yeah, I totally agree with Tangent that Gothic 3 has every bit of the Gothic feel and then some, arguably moreso even than Gothic 2, as the initial setup of the plot at least is much more interesting, though I haven't gotten far enough to judge the story as a whole yet.

Cause yeah, as much as a I love Gothic 2, its kill the evil dragons plot was rather pointless. There were interesting touches of storytelling at the character level, but the overarching plot was stupid. No argument there.

Though it did have a twist at the end.

Spoiler:

Xardas assuming the power of the dragon as it died... to which end we don't know, but perhaps we'll find out in Gothic 3

Another interesting thing about Gothic. It doesn't stand still. The story isn't relegated to the dialogue. Factions go to war, NPCs are imprisoned (indeed sentenced to death if you don't do something about it) and so many other things...

Spoiler:

Anyone remember the invocation of the Sleeper and the discovery of its true identity? Gomez attacking the New Camp mine? Or the murder of the fire mages?

[JemyM]

Just finished it. Without all the bugs, Gothic 3 could easily have been RPG of the year. It have the complete freedom that Elder Scrolls promised but never had and NWN never will have. Well recommended for serious RPG fans.

[samIamsad]

http://www.rewiredmind.com/review/gothiciii

A review I recently saw getting touted by people being disappointed by the apparent generic quests, generic characters and generic bugs. Most of the German reviews have indeed been really positive so far, though. What's interesting is that PB admitted that they didn't have enought time to fill the world with more life after they were finished creating it this time. And they had plans in that direction. But then, which developer has time to finish *anything* these days?

PS: Man, pitty that they fixed the combat mechanics like they apparently did. The previous games sure had their faults in that area, yet at least they gave you some actual control over something, making combat much more fun and less of a bore than in say, "Morrowind". The clickclickclick-'til-killed approach seems to go in the opposite direction now.

[TangentBlack]

I have finished the game twice. Once as a ranger and another as a mage/summoner. I can't say how much I enjoyed the game as a whole. It has left me with a myriad of memories and wishes that this game was bug-free. PB really worked their asses off trying to achieve a masterpiece and really jaded themselves in doing so. They did make a masterpiece, but it is one that you have to pick up and brush off to realize its true value. I couldn't believe the environment the first time I started playing it and to this day I have not played a more opened ended video game. It really is funny reading some forum reviews and gameplay questions about the game. Here was an example of one I cut and pasted:

Player A: I was wandering in Mora Sul (desert city) and I was approached by a trader who offered me a sword. I really liked the sword and decided to buy it but as I did some of the Nomads (a rebel faction) decided that it would be a good time to liberate the city. The trader who was selling the sword to me then broke off from the trade and screamed some inaudable threat to the Nomads as he rushed into battle and was quickly decimated. The Nomads then proceeded to attack me and to my suprise quickly surrounded me and cut me down. Why do the Nomads attack the city? Is this normal?

Player B: err, I have never heard of this before.....maybe you got one of them angry?

Player A: I could have but was that before or after I killed their leader....this game is tooooo complicated for me.....I never know what will effect something else.....



The point of me posting this thread was that this is an average complaint that player have. This game is not normal! Nothing happens soley because of event A or event B; reactions are a complex procedure in this game. It has a life of its own! It really does remember minute details of your gameplay and NPCs and events will manifest themselves accordingly. People are not used to a game that is so large yet it so detailed, and to be frank, neither was PB. They got pressured so much to release the game that they failed to understand that they were creating something quite unlike the previous Gothics or any RPG for that matter. Oblivion pales in comparision to the complexity of Gothic (I have played and savored Oblivion). It should be treason that PB gave birth to this game early.

[Henke]

I've finished the first game and am a long way into the second one. I must say that I'm a huge fan of the Gothic-series. Can't wait to play the third one.

In comparison with similair games, I started playing Morrowind but got bored real quickly. I didn't find any overall plot whatsoever. Just random (and to me, boring) quests. That's what I like about the Gothic-games, they have real stories and real characters with different personalities. They claim it's a mix between adventuregames and RPG:s and I agree. That's what makes them great IMO.

[JemyM]

Gothic 3 is a mixed bag. First you must overlook the bugs. The nastiest one is the one that wreck savefiles on quicksave, but 1.09 is said to fix that.
There was also alot of cut content. Some monsters shown in preview screenshots are missing from the game, and they scaled down the female models down to the point where I started to wonder "how do they reproduce in this country?".

Beyond that Gothic 3 is built upon an original idea in which you know what probably have to be done but have to go around in villages, helping people out, to eventually find out what to do. In that, it's totally unlinear to the end.

Still one of the most rewarding, if not the most rewarding, rpg of the year.

And the music is probably the best I ever heard in a computer game.

[TangentBlack]

The music is indeed some of the best I have EVER encountered in all my years of gaming. The full symphony is transfered beautifully from live band to game and is much more epic than the previous two games. I would have bought it for the soundtrack along.

[JemyM]

The first thing I did after beating the game was to rip the pianomusic used in the credits. I have it on my pocketpc that I use as my mp3 player. I listen to it when I just want to relax a bit.