[AFGNCAAP]

Originally Posted by Intrepid Homoludens

However, when I played Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time on the PC it was exquisite. The controls were character relative by default and it was smooth.

Er, no, there is no character-relative option in that game (as I said in the first post). Well, at those moments when the camera is following Prince, both modes are one and the same, as insane_cobra notes. But in the scenes where camera viewpoint is more or less fixed, it's pure screen-relative. Except for climbing sequences.

[Jackal]

Originally Posted by Crunchy in milk

I just cannot enjoy myself playing with camera relative controls on a keyboard. You wouldn't think the slight difference between keys and a joystick would make much of a difference but for me it just does.

I'm the same way. My camera preference is entirely dependent on whether I'm using a gamepad or keyboard, as they're consistently opposite.

I have no scientific support for this, but I'm convinced that it's because our fingers are hardwired differently to our brains than our thumbs are. The gamepad uses the (opposable) thumb, whereas keyboards obviously use the other digits (for directions). The same is essentially true of joystick throttles, which, while used with the whole hand, is dominated by thumb control. So then moving up becomes down, etc.

[Orange Brat]

I often tend to mash down the keys when I'm making a character move, so it's jarring in camera-relative mode when the camera angle changes and all of a sudden the protagonist is running the wrong way.

This only occurs in games where the developers didn't use a toggle to keep this from happening. A great example is Grim Fandango. It's camera relative feature is superior to the character relative one, however its camera relative feature is garbage compared to games that do it right. You can still find many areas where Manny will change direction when the screen changes and the angles change dramatically. It's a matter of a few lines of code to make him not do this and only reset his local axis(in relation to the camera position) when the player stops pressing the movement key or gamepad stick.

I remember the older Resident Evil games always got Hell for sticking with character relative controls. The first RE game to switch to camera relative was the N64 version of RE2. However, when the screen changed, pressing left made the player go right and vice versa until you released the analog stick which forced the player to reset itself.

A nice example of well done camera relative would be Eternal Darkness on Gamecube. Broken Sword 3 was good, too if you used a gamepad.

[Karmillo]

What the...what the hell!? Ive typed out a reply to this thread like 5 times and kepts forgeting to submit it! I'm sure I did it the last time though! AGH


anyway, I picked Character relative although if the game is top down them screen relative is better.

[Intrepid Homoludens]

Originally Posted by AFGNCAAP

Er, no, there is no character-relative option in that game (as I said in the first post). Well, at those moments when the camera is following Prince, both modes are one and the same, as insane_cobra notes. But in the scenes where camera viewpoint is more or less fixed, it's pure screen-relative. Except for climbing sequences.

You're right! For some reason I spazzed. I meant to say Splinter Cell, not PoP: SoT. SC is definitely character-centric, and that's one of the things I liked about it.

[Crunchy in milk]

Originally Posted by Intrepid Homoludens

Splinter Cell[...] is definitely character-centric, and that's one of the things I liked about it.

Not sure why you bring another term into the mix (centric) but on the Xbox, Splinter Cell uses camera relative controls. The right stick lets you position the camera how you want but the movement is always camera relative.

[Intrepid Homoludens]

Okay, I'm confused. I thought character relative meant that the character (in this case Sam Fisher) was always the point of reference. But then you claim that the movement is relative to the camera. The way I play it my eyes are focused on Sam at all times, not where the camera should say he is. In others words, the camera isn't some disembodied thing, it orbits around Sam and nothing else, it never leaves him. Thus wouldn't that mean that the view is character relative?

Would you mind giving me an example of character relative and of camera relative? I want links to gameplay movies.

[insane_cobra]

Originally Posted by Intrepid Homoludens

Thus wouldn't that mean that the view is character relative?

No, that has nothing to do with it. It's not about the view, it's about controls.

Would you mind giving me an example of character relative and of camera relative? I want links to gameplay movies.

It's been explained earlier in the thread, look it up.

[Crunchy in milk]

Originally Posted by Intrepid Homoludens

Would you mind giving me an example of character relative and of camera relative? I want links to gameplay movies.

Movies would be useless unless they also show the player - playing the game and the controls they are using.

Have you ever played the original Alone in the Dark? There are other games that offer both options in the controls menu, my earliest introduction to character relative movement was the very first AITD, all those years ago. Consider playing it to get an idea, I'm sure its on some abandonware site weighing in around 3 or 4 megabytes?...

AITD like many subsequent horror/action games uses fixed camera perspectives throughout levels... as you get to a certain location the camera would switch to another 'scary' angle. This just makes the distinction between control schemes easier to understand. In the XBOX version of Splinter Cell (I have never played it on my PC), while you could rotate the camera around Sam, who stayed in the middle of the screen- if you where looking at his left profile and wanted Sam to walk forward, you had to press the movement stick to the left... this is camera relative).

lets pretend A S D W are your keyboard movement keys. Like in most shooters, left, back, right, forward respectively. Imagine the game starts with you behind (I think his name was Carnby?) the character and there's a window in the background (in front of you, and in front of your character). Spacially, you want to move forward to reach the window, so you press W.

As you get closer to the window the camera changes to a new, dramatic angle. One in which you can see yourself approaching the window from the side (you're no longer behind Carnby, but looking at his left profile). Stop Moving.

Camera Relative - You want to move toward the window still so what do you do? You would have to press A - LEFT because relative to the camera your objective is now LEFT.

Character Relative - You want to move toward the window still so what do you do? You would have to press W - Forward, because regardless of the camera angle the window is still forward, relative to your character.

[stuboy]

What I can't stand about character relative are things like GF or survival horror games where you esentially have to turn on the spot. Camera relative works much better with analogue controls, but with a keyboard, I'm not so sure.

It's easy to tell though, when something isn't working. Good controls make you forget they're even there.