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Old 09-09-2006, 10:41 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Huz
I wonder what the German word for our 'Informatics' is then?
From the way you described it, that would be Wirtschaftsinformatik, I suppose. Not sure how to translate that back to Englisch...
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Old 09-10-2006, 10:56 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by undeaf
The reason I think it would decrease system requirements is because, with a 96kb game, they're forced to program everything in the most space efficient way, instead of the most proccesing efficient way, and they're probably also forced to do lots of things with the same code when it would be more efficient to do them in various ways.

Assembler? I though it was called "assembly language".
When your goal is to create a working 3D shooter in the least amount of space possible, using more space would have been quite a stupid thing to do. This is the demoscene, the point is technical prowess and flashy results, not making something that runs on everyone's computer and is really nice to play.
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Old 09-10-2006, 11:23 AM   #23
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Okay, but I'd still like to see the game recoded with less space constraints, to give a bit of an idea of the performance cost of such extreme miniaturization.
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Old 09-10-2006, 12:02 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by undeaf
Okay, but I'd still like to see the game recoded with less space constraints, to give a bit of an idea of the performance cost of such extreme miniaturization.
Why?
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Old 09-10-2006, 12:11 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by insane_cobra
Why?
umm...
Quote:
Originally Posted by undeaf
to give a bit of an idea of the performance cost of such extreme miniaturization.
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Old 09-10-2006, 12:15 PM   #26
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Yeah, I got it, but why would you care about that? What would be the point? Would it prove anything?
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Old 09-10-2006, 12:18 PM   #27
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The size limit was set by the rules. Kkrieger was written for the 96k game compo at Breakpoint '04.

I wonder if they could have come up with something interesting had it been the more common 32k size limit.
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Old 09-10-2006, 12:21 PM   #28
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Of course, it would prove whether or not such space saving techniques significantly increase hardware requirements. Who knows, maybe they don't. If the game was recoded a few times in almost exactly the same way but with only one space saving feature disabled each time, it might even show some of these space saving features actually decreasing hardware requirements.
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Old 09-10-2006, 12:27 PM   #29
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Executable size vs speed of execution is a well-known tradeoff, to the extent that any good compiler will allow you to optimise for one or the other, for the same source code, as you see fit. You can't have both. This doesn't prove anything about hand-crafted space optimisations using assembler, mind you, but it's sensible to assume that the same applies.

Last edited by Huz; 09-10-2006 at 12:33 PM.
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Old 09-10-2006, 02:26 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by undeaf
Of course, it would prove whether or not such space saving techniques significantly increase hardware requirements.
It depends on many things, not least the hardware you use. Theoretically, it could even speed up execution because it eliminates or reduces data transfer times.
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Old 09-10-2006, 03:18 PM   #31
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Well, kkrieger is a packed executable, so unpacking it would increase its size and speed up the launch (a little). Other than that, code optimization for speed would not neccesarely result in much bigger filesize.
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Old 09-13-2006, 05:27 PM   #32
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Wow. What really impresses is the audio (I've seen procedural textures before) which doesn't sound procedural (e.g. midi). I didn't think they could even get away with chopping up one-note samples at that size, I guess it must be synthesized on the fly but; wow.
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Old 09-13-2006, 05:58 PM   #33
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http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=15073

I think this is the synth engine they used.
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