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Old 09-28-2006, 04:11 AM   #101
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So has anyone else heard the rumor that there won't be pre-orders for the PS3 due to the low quantities? I haven't found confirmation yet but if that is true, I can only imagine the camping, fights, and price gouging that will ensue.

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Old 09-28-2006, 05:12 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by bysmitty View Post
So has anyone else heard the rumor that there won't be pre-orders for the PS3 due to the low quantities? I haven't found confirmation yet but if that is true, I can only imagine the camping, fights, and price gouging that will ensue.

...bysmitty
I haven't heard the rumour, but it is 100% inaccurate.
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Old 09-28-2006, 05:30 AM   #103
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The official Sony shop, SonyStyle has announced the pricing as $59.99 for some upcoming PS3 games.
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Old 09-28-2006, 07:32 AM   #104
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Originally Posted by insane_cobra View Post
True to some extent. Most game programmers are still not used to working in multithreaded enviroments, but there are ways to utilize even 80 core processors. For instance, let 5 or 6 threads take care of various game systems and allocate all remaining threads to AI processing. That way you could have a great number of complex, presistent characters - each with its own thread - "intelligently" interacting with the game world all the time. There are many other potential uses.
You say it like it is easily doable. In computer science, the most difficult task for a programmer is multi-threading. In the server/client world, it is much easier to implement because each server will supply a client with one thread and do all its work in that thread (like a web app for example). Even then you have synchronization concerns of shared resources like a database. In a Word application, ditto, a search can go fire off in the background while you are typing in your document, and in no way is searching for something interfering with what you are typing. Same with spell checker or Grammar checker.

In games though, they are instinctively single threaded, because everything is tightly connected. AI is tightly connected to gameply, which is tightly connected to graphics animation of a character, which itself is tightly connected to the audio. Synchronizing between these things, when each one is fired off asynchronously from the others is a nightmare. You were talking about each character having its own thread. But what about the inter character communication, collision detection between characters, and them responding to your own input (for example you pass close to one and he'll start firing at you). In a single threaded game, all these are executed within one game snapshot (known as a frame and thus the term Frames per second).

So you clicking on a mouse will be captured in the frame, all collision detection calculated, one animation per character executed, one pieace of sound released, each enemy AI calculated, and the process is repeated 60 times a second. It is synchronized because it happens all under your control and you know exactly what each frame holds. With multi-threading however, in one frame, one character might do three things whereas another might not do anything at all. How do you ensure that everything gells together.

Multi-threading does have its applications in the 360 today, like downloading a game for example goes on one core, while playing another game goes on another (they are 100% disjointed). But doing in game multi-threading the way you described it is every programmer's nightmare.
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Old 09-28-2006, 11:45 AM   #105
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I have experience in multithreaded programming so I know that it's not a simple task. I never said it's easy, I said it's doable.
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Old 10-10-2006, 05:14 PM   #106
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Why can't we all just be patience? I am waiting for PS3. if im one of the unlucky ones that cant get PS3 in stores and PS3 is sold out with 400,000 and unable to get it then I wait till they bring in more PS3 console to the U.S. I usually buy PS3 and games from Ebgames/Gamestop online website since its quicker then waiting in stores (50 miles away to city). i dont live in the city. All I care is the upcoming PS3 games uh as for Xbox360 dunno about getting it yet. focus is PS3.
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Old 10-15-2006, 02:42 AM   #107
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Interesting article about the Playstation Network system, the first one I've seen:

http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=68677

It looks like they are doing something right... At least it's there and it's functional.
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Old 10-24-2006, 01:39 AM   #108
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Originally Posted by undeaf View Post
Microft being seen as respecting choice, oh the irony. Why would microsoft even want to force toshiba's format onto their customers?

Who will want such an add on device anyway? Not only will the combination cost more and not have HDMI(and HD DVD is said to be stricter about DRM than Blu ray)

That statement tells me you are a complete fool. Sony is the KING of finding ways to shove DRM down our throats. Does nobody remember the fact that Sony has been slipping DRM spyware onto their music CD's and got CAUGHT doing it just a few months ago? With their pants TOTALLY down. Really dude, You have no clue.

Between the two, Microsoft is a hell of a lot more trustworthy these days than Sony is.
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Old 10-24-2006, 01:43 AM   #109
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Originally Posted by stinking_dylan View Post
I think people are going to be much slower upgrading to HD-DVD or Blu Ray. DVD is still a new media which the vast majority are happy with. And as most people remember the Betamax fiasco, they'll hold back and see what happens.

Well, I will anyway. =)
Totally. My parents bought beta at first. we got totally screwed there. I will definitely be waiting to see which one has the best cost vs. performance level. And so far, Blue Ray is looking overhyped and overpriced. I'm more than willing to give it several years if need be.
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Old 10-24-2006, 02:00 AM   #110
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That it will be much harder to make a better console next time! To make a console that'll be close to as much of an improvement, they'll have to wait a lot longer, since the alternative seems very unlikely. To not wait extra, they'll have to use more expensive chips, use a heatsink at least comparable to a scythe ninja on the CPU(and also a better one on the GPU), and either use....
Again you are misinformed. Intel's Duo Core and Soon to be released Quad Core Processors use less power and do not heat up nearly as much. Their Goals have been to reduce power consumption, lower heat, and raise performance, and they are doing so. http://www.intel.com/pressroom/archi...060926corp.htm

The next gen console machines will be boasting many more processors at lower heat/power consumption and will rival movie (or at least Pixar) in visual and audio quality.


Do you even understand sony's "cell" processor technology and how it works?

As far as we know Sony's "Cell" technology is going to be just another "failed" technology. Sony is famous for creating proprietary hardware/software that they try to push on consumers, and they are famous for failing at those attempts.


Do you understand how much longer it is going to take game companies to produce titles for Sony's Proprietary platform? When working with the Xbox the technologies are known. Gaming companies have been producing games on the PC processor architecture for years. The Cell technology is going to mean a lot of delays for developers because like SONY, they are going to have to hurdle massive issues, not the least of which is trying to program for a totally new technology... And how are you going to like it when you have to go buy a blender with a cell processor to run the latest and greatest PS3 game? How about a fridge or a washing machine? Again, do you KNOW how the cell technology is intended to work?

When company's like Apple see the benefit of going with similar technology to be more competitive in the market place, Sony is still using decades old tactics to keep them on top, and it's not working for them. I predict Sony is going to continue to have issues for the coming years, they are not doing very well at all in the overall marketplace and they are losing their reputation for building quality products. (seriously, have you bought a set of Sony earphones lately? they fall apart in under 2 months. I could name dozens of other Sony products that are suffering from severe quality issues right now.)

In short. While Apple got wise and went with Intel. Sony and IBM got stupid and have decided to go the old Apple route, via propiertary hardware/software and it's going to bite Sony on the ass since they're the ones who are going forward with the technology. IBM is wisely going to sit back and see how Sony fares before they make anymore big investments into it.


Following is a brief overview of how the Cell processor is expected to Work: http://news.com.com/2100-1001-948493.html

Following is a excerpt from Wikipedia on Cell Technology and why Developers are going to have a bitch of a time programming anything for it:

Quote:
The architecture emphasizes efficiency/watt, prioritizes bandwidth over latency, and favors peak computational throughput over simplicity of program code. For these reasons, Cell is widely regarded as a challenging environment for software development. IBM provides a comprehensive Linux-based Cell development platform to assist developers in confronting these challenges. Software adoption remains a key issue in whether Cell ultimately delivers on its performance potential.
The idea with Cell is to take the load off the chip and stick it with the software. Which means the software has to be a lot more complicated and exact to run on the Cell platform.

THIS is why Sony doesn't give anyone a choice about the Blue-Ray technology. Because their PS3 NEEDS that technology to overcome the much larger file sizes with all of the extra code embedded into the programs to make them work on the Cell Processor.

The primary strength of the Cell processor besides the fact it simplifies it's own processes (which is no strength at all if you can't get developers to write software for it.), also has to deal with the fact that in the future you'll NEED a Cell processor in your T.V. and other appliances to RUN those next gen games because the cell processors will work together to bring the power necessary to run something as simple as... The latest PS3 game.

The idea is to force everyone at some point to buy nothing but Cell embedded products so that people can get the most processing power out of their computers, games, cell phones. using wireless broadband technology so the processors can "link" together to provide the necessary computing power to run whatever it is you need to run.

It doesn't take much of an imagination to see how this technology could be a very, very, bad thing if the wrong people figured out how to exploit it. But I digress.


There's a reason why Nobody has seen much of the games expected to launch with the PS3. Can you guess why?

Last edited by jokieman; 10-24-2006 at 02:42 AM. Reason: Forgive any misspellings. IT's very late and I'm very tired.
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Old 10-24-2006, 02:48 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by SoccerDude28 View Post
Multi-threading does have its applications in the 360 today, like downloading a game for example goes on one core, while playing another game goes on another (they are 100% disjointed). But doing in game multi-threading the way you described it is every programmer's nightmare.
Max Payne 3 is being developed on an Intel Quad (or maybe it's the Duo) Core processor, and they are utilizing it. (they had a demo of the game with a full on tornado happening while Max was running through the scenery and all kinds of stuff was happening. One processor alone was used for the Tornado, another for Max.) -- it was in the Intel Keynote thingy. hehe.



So it is happening. Like anything else it will take software a long time to catch up to the hardware capabilities. The hardware always seems to be several years ahead of the software development for obvious reasons.

Sadly I'm an AMD fan, and they've lost this round on the processor race. Their processors still run hot as hell.

Last edited by jokieman; 10-24-2006 at 03:09 AM.
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Old 10-24-2006, 03:35 AM   #112
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THIS is why Sony doesn't give anyone a choice about the Blue-Ray technology. Because their PS3 NEEDS that technology to overcome the much larger file sizes with all of the extra code embedded into the programs to make them work on the Cell Processor.
That's not the reason why PS3 needs Blu-ray (which it doesn't) as compiled code takes up relatively little space.

Quote:
Max Payne 3 is being developed on an Intel Quad (or maybe it's the Duo) Core processor, and they are utilizing it. (they had a demo of the game with a full on tornado happening while Max was running through the scenery and all kinds of stuff was happening. One processor alone was used for the Tornado, another for Max.) -- it was in the Intel Keynote thingy. hehe.
Um, that's Alan Wake, not Max Payne 3.
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Old 10-24-2006, 11:23 AM   #113
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Max Payne 3 is being developed on an Intel Quad (or maybe it's the Duo) Core processor, and they are utilizing it. (they had a demo of the game with a full on tornado happening while Max was running through the scenery and all kinds of stuff was happening. One processor alone was used for the Tornado, another for Max.) -- it was in the Intel Keynote thingy. hehe.
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Um, that's Alan Wake, not Max Payne 3.
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Old 10-24-2006, 01:22 PM   #114
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That statement tells me you are a complete fool. Sony is the KING of finding ways to shove DRM down our throats.
Here's what I was basing that on:
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060314-6377.html

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Originally Posted by jokieman View Post
Again you are misinformed. Intel's Duo Core and Soon to be released Quad Core Processors use less power and do not heat up nearly as much.
Pretty much anything uses less power than netburst.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jokieman View Post
Ow, my head. The marketing jargon and spin from just the first few paragraphs makes me want to loose it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jokieman View Post
Do you even understand sony's "cell" processor technology and how it works?

As far as we know Sony's "Cell" technology is going to be just another "failed" technology...
...
Who said anything primarily about the cell CPU in the first place?
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Old 10-24-2006, 09:58 PM   #115
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As far as we know Sony's "Cell" technology is going to be just another "failed" technology. Sony is famous for creating proprietary hardware/software that they try to push on consumers, and they are famous for failing at those attempts.
You know that IBM actually created the Cell right????

Quote:
Originally Posted by jokieman
Do you understand how much longer it is going to take game companies to produce titles for Sony's Proprietary platform? When working with the Xbox the technologies are known. Gaming companies have been producing games on the PC processor architecture for years.
You do understand that PC processors are Intel Based while the 360 processor is Power PC, which is basically the old Apple processor. right???

Quote:
Originally Posted by jokieman
The Cell technology is going to mean a lot of delays for developers because like SONY, they are going to have to hurdle massive issues, not the least of which is trying to program for a totally new technology...
PS2 used assembly language and it didn't stop developers from programming for it. PS3 actually is a step forward because it supports Open/GL and C++. Bottom line: developers program for the most popular platform.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jokieman
THIS is why Sony doesn't give anyone a choice about the Blue-Ray technology. Because their PS3 NEEDS that technology to overcome the much larger file sizes with all of the extra code embedded into the programs to make them work on the Cell Processor.
Do you have any programming experience? Because that is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. The only thing that takes space is the art assets and 3D HD Models. Code itself can fit on a CD.
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Old 10-24-2006, 10:00 PM   #116
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That's not the reason why PS3 needs Blu-ray (which it doesn't) as compiled code takes up relatively little space.

Um, that's Alan Wake, not Max Payne 3.
I lost count on how many "facts" this guy had in his few posts
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Old 10-25-2006, 01:21 PM   #117
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Some nice videos released recently. First, two really cool PS3 commercials and then a Gears of War trailer set to Mad World. Brilliant.
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Old 10-26-2006, 10:10 AM   #118
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i haven't read this thread yet, but is the ps3 still going to be not as good as the others?
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